Stoney's Soil vs Hydro Apple Fritter Auto show

[Stoneyluv]

end of week three. plants still growing, nutrient solution has been steady eddie!! no adjustments made since sunday night. in both the rez and the test gallon of future recipe have been steady as can be. i never once added any down to the test gallon, today the pH was 5.7. i wanted the bucket for a new test so i just added it into the rez, i was down about a gallon anyway.

plants got singed and burned from me with the orange oil so they have their panties twisted a little but should grow out of it, i hope so anyway.

just starting week four...

(pics won't upload i think i broke the forum... sorry! send me the bill!! haha) maybe they'll pop up at the bottom..

i picked up some of this to make KOH with instead of using all my ph up. i mixed what i believe is a 10% solution and compared it to the GH ph up and my mix seems to be 4-6% more powerful when it comes to raising the pH and also backed up by ppm numbers to which i can only assume are parts of potassium and can use this math to get me kind of close to a number to base off of.

skull and cross bones kinda stuff!!! careful what you mix it in if you do this, it can melt plastic bottles.. i think this is the same stuff they use in MRE heaters. add water and don't touch it.. that's what this was like, add water and don't hold it, don't breath it. it mixes and dissolves very quick. and it cools down in 20 minutes or so. but this is pH up/KOH on the cheap cheap!!!!!

i mixed a gallon test of it with the A16 silicate and tried to keep my same numbers as the other test to compare notes. i used about .6ml of this compared to 1ml of GH pH up to achieve the same numbers in both pH and ppm. i'll let it aerate for 24 hours then add the cal/mag and nutes from there.. if this stays as steady as the last test i will move forward with this and will be my recipe. i'm just shocked the first test was pretty much a success. if this isn't as good i'll adjust and try again.

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no sign of anymore mites at all... might have dodged a bullet. i put that plant out in my greenhouse, light timing is all messed up now but still might take a few cuttings and wash them down good and put them in my aerocloner to come a little more full circle with the hydro and still get to keep the dna.

 

[smoke]

no sign of anymore mites at all... might have dodged a bullet.

They have up to a 12 day life cycle, one or 2 more applications is a good idea imo

 

[Stoneyluv]

They have up to a 12 day life cycle, one or 2 more applications is a good idea imo

yes sir, you make a good point... can't let my guard down!!

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pics that i didn't load last night...

just starting week four today..

 

[steamroller]

Have you tried mosquito bits for the gnats?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Have you tried mosquito bits for the gnats?

no, that stuff is a pita.. i bought the five pack of those bucket netcups because one of the reviews said how great they worked for mixing MB.. so i figured i'd give it a try sometime... i've been using the liquid stuff when i remember. as soon as i don't see them i get lax then they come back. right now i'm giving them my best effort though. only see a handful anymore when i open the doors.

as soon as i harvest the dark side i will fumigate good and have a better chance of getting rid of them. those plants stopped drinking last night out of nowhere... i'm thinking harvest might be in a few days!!

 

[steamroller]

I float them in a bucket and then net them out with a little fish net.
They are wood I believe and would cause no trouble to just add to soil.
I have almost done that in the past. I thought I read you can no problem.
I just noted one of my traps looking a little full and thought maybe summer makes them worse?
I am still on my original bag of MB from 3 years ago and will be treating again soon.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I float them in a bucket and then net them out with a little fish net.
They are wood I believe and would cause no trouble to just add to soil.
I have almost done that in the past. I thought I read you can no problem.
I just noted one of my traps looking a little full and thought maybe summer makes them worse?
I am still on my original bag of MB from 3 years ago and will be treating again soon.

i'm not gonna take water from a five gallon bucket and try to fill my watering can and mix those things up every single day.. nope, not gonna happen! i'll deal with gnats before i deal with making MB ahead of time every day. plus they didn't work for me anyway when i did try it the first week.

when you run out let me know, you can have my bag!

 

[Aqua Man]

The mosquito dunks wont help against mites but always a goos idea to prevent fungus gnats etc.

Lower the light intensity during treatment. That will help prevent the burn

 

[Stoneyluv]

The mosquito dunks wont help against mites but always a goos idea to prevent fungus gnats etc.

Lower the light intensity during treatment. That will help prevent the burn

i've tried em and they keep them at bay but never get rid of them.

i have better luck with this stuff..


i also bought this stuff a while back but have only used it in my koi pond and not for gnats, i think smoke uses this stuff...



honestly the only thing that gets rid of them for me is this one two punch... but i won't use them during flower. and i know they're evil. i'll wipe them out and then buy new soil and water once and they're back!! been buying my soil from the same place as everybody else too.. idk..



i'm pretty good at trapping them..

 

[smoke]

i think smoke uses this stuff...

Yes i do

 

[steamroller]

i'm not gonna take water from a five gallon bucket and try to fill my watering can and mix those things up every single day.. nope, not gonna happen! i'll deal with gnats before i deal with making MB ahead of time every day. plus they didn't work for me anyway when i did try it the first week.

when you run out let me know, you can have my bag!

It is only a time dose per run for me, not everyday.
My little bag would never had lasted 3 years being used everyday.
Once a run and they are dead~!
They come with our soil so it is just a procedure that needs to be done usually for me, but not scheduled for repetitive treatments.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Once a run and they are dead~!

i can only dream of that.

i just assumed that stuff only worked on their larva and once they hatch it does nothing. maybe my soil isn't saturated enough with the stuff, idk.

Yes i do

i really should give it a try since i already have it. nothing else is working so why not.

 

[Stoneyluv]

you guys think it's possible my micro herd is eating the gnat microbes before they get a chance to take hold?

 

[Aqua Man]

you guys think it's possible my micro herd is eating the gnat microbes before they get a chance to take hold?

Nope definitely not. Unless it includes Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis. Which i highly doibt

 

[Stoneyluv]

Nope definitely not. Unless it includes Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis. Which i highly doibt

cool thanks, looks like great white is free and clear of that...



i looked at the MB label again and realized it's only a 30 minute mix, so i put in six TBSP in a gallon of water (label says four) and some micro lift and some micro lift pro.. probably all the same stuff but i'll triple team it and give it an honest shot. i put an airstone in and it's mixing now.

 

[Aqua Man]

cool thanks, looks like great white is free and clear of that...

View attachment 71921

i looked at the MB label again and realized it's only a 30 minute mix, so i put in six TBSP in a gallon of water (label says four) and some micro lift and some micro lift pro.. probably all the same stuff but i'll triple team it and give it an honest shot. i put an airstone in and it's mixing now.

The bacteria I posted about will kill fungus gnat and many other larvae but it typically is not in most bacillus mixes we use

 

[stonemason]

you guys think it's possible my micro herd is eating the gnat microbes before they get a chance to take hold?

I never had luck with bt for killing gnats,i was wondering the same thing.if i had to much other biology that was keeping they bt from taking hold and it was getting out competed and not doing it's job on the gnats. I used predator bugs once havnt had them since.
We reuse the dirt every grow so the predators might not be economical if you change the dirt every grow.

 

[Stoneyluv]

The bacteria I posted about will kill fungus gnat and many other larvae but it typically is not in most bacillus mixes we use

ah i understand. thats the bacteria i want right now.. i'm gonna have to include this step when i first moisten the soil when taking it out of the bag. i reused soil for so long that i'm not used to preventive measures like this.

with all this rain this summer gnats have been in abundance in general. my soil doesn't sit outside at all so the larva might already be in there. and part of my issue is i let it get to this point as well. i should have started sooner and not waiting till they're out of control.

i know i wiped em out in large numbers with the home defense spray. once i harvest that other side i will fully clean em out on that side and then these two pots in here will be much easier to take them all out.

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when i get new soil next week can i just put the bits dry right in the soil? or is it better to mix in water first?

 

[Stoneyluv]

I never had luck with bt for killing gnats,i was wondering the same thing.if i had to much other biology that was keeping they bt from taking hold and it was getting out competed and not doing it's job on the gnats. I used predator bugs once havnt had them since.
We reuse the dirt every grow so the predators might not be economical if you change the dirt every grow.View attachment 71924

thanks Stone!!! if this don't work i will for sure give them a try!!! i'v been running two runs since buying new soil but everything is steering back to just making my own again. it's not cheaper at all for me to mix my own. for most it would but i have this problem where i want to buy everything possible to add to it and naturally i have to buy in bulk to keep this obsession within sanity. so in the end it was costing me three to four times the cost of now buying it for $40 a bag. if i had self control it would be so much easier because all that shit didn't do shit.. pics prove it.. if anyone can still see the farm you guys can tell my plants have gotten much healthier since me buying new soil. so all that extra cost and i still didn't know what i was doing!!! i've recently learned if i just buy this and add crab and bone meal my plants grow just as nice as having the new soil ...

but i'm all in for predators... it would make me feel even better knowing i was unleashing an army on them to viscously tear them apart instead of biochemical warfare!! yeah i'm a little evil!!

if they're not officially vacated before i start my next round i'm buying some for sure!!

 

[steamroller]

When the soil is dry, the bits will break down at a slower rate, resulting in a longer-lasting protection.

Conversely, when the soil is moist, the bits will break down faster, reducing the duration of its effectiveness.
Taken from; https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=7a68...biUyMG9mJTIwaXRzJTIwZWZmZWN0aXZlbmVzcy4&ntb=1

 

[Aqua Man]

ah i understand. thats the bacteria i want right now.. i'm gonna have to include this step when i first moisten the soil when taking it out of the bag. i reused soil for so long that i'm not used to preventive measures like this.

with all this rain this summer gnats have been in abundance in general. my soil doesn't sit outside at all so the larva might already be in there. and part of my issue is i let it get to this point as well. i should have started sooner and not waiting till they're out of control.

i know i wiped em out in large numbers with the home defense spray. once i harvest that other side i will fully clean em out on that side and then these two pots in here will be much easier to take them all out.

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when i get new soil next week can i just put the bits dry right in the soil? or is it better to mix in water first?

You can do both. They are also harmless to the environment and pets. Best used as a preventative but will knock a population down pretty dam good

 

[Stoneyluv]

When the soil is dry, the bits will break down at a slower rate, resulting in a longer-lasting protection.

Conversely, when the soil is moist, the bits will break down faster, reducing the duration of its effectiveness.
Taken from; https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=7a68...biUyMG9mJTIwaXRzJTIwZWZmZWN0aXZlbmVzcy4&ntb=1

You can do both. They are also harmless to the environment and pets. Best used as a preventative but will knock a population down pretty dam good

i gave it a good effort. they're not gone yet the population is way less. i harvested the other cabinet next to it so that will stop most of the breeding grounds. these three soil plants in here will be all i have now so this is my time to strike hard!! MB says once a week for three weeks so i'll keep it up.

no signs of mites at all, i diluted my orange oil spray and have been hitting them with it every two or three days now. i know i gluttin for punishment because i took cuttings of that plant and loaded up my cloner... left a dome on to keep em contained if there are any.. no signs through the plastic cover yet!! i washed them good before putting them in a few days ago. i think it was saturday.



hydro plants are back to growing and have shook off the hot oil, the nutrient solution has been vey steady!! i haven't made any adjustments since monday the 2nd. the ph and ppm have been rock solid at 5.6 and 650

i think it's time for a changeout and bloom nutes!!!







thoughts? concerns? opinions?

 

[Aqua Man]

They looking good for what they went through.

All started the same time right?

 

[Aqua Man]

Twisting could be bugs or stress. If nee leaves look good i wouldn’t worry much

 

[Stoneyluv]

i'm surprised they don't look worse. i think that twisting all came from the oil spray, those were the small leaves just sprouting at the time. two sets grew out all parsley like. this set now is the first normal one since.

but yeah all of them started on the same day along with the gallon challenge and this sad wee one out in my polytunnel outside...

 

[Aqua Man]

i'm surprised they don't look worse. i think that twisting all came from the oil spray, those were the small leaves just sprouting at the time. two sets grew out all parsley like. this set now is the first normal one since.

but yeah all of them started on the same day along with the gallon challenge and this sad wee one out in my polytunnel outside...

View attachment 72528

Well you hydro is doing what it should and thats grow a-lot faster so your doing it right

 

[Stoneyluv]

Well you hydro is doing what it should and thats grow a-lot faster so your doing it right

yea i see this too.... actually i could see it a long time ago and never said anything... i'm gonna brew up some tea for the soil plants and see if we can't help em a little!! just finishing up week four with them.

 

[Stoneyluv]

all the soil plants got a little of each one of these ↓ ..along with mosquito bits and microbe lift trio. not many flew out when i watered, less than a dozen. one flew in my ear so one less!



the hydro plants didn't get anything. they get to sit there in their own filthy bathwater and stew about what they did growing so fast!!

i didn't even bother checking the pH or ec tonight.. it's the same i'm sure. i did check my tester gallon of the new KOH along with the A16 and i also tried GH cali magic versus using the humbolts i had. all is stable as can be so far and i'll keep checking until i need a changeout and if it's still stable at that time then i'll follow that recipe for sure!!

cleaned up a few leaves and cut some ugly away...

 

[Bandit420]

all the soil plants got a little of each one of these ↓ ..along with mosquito bits and microbe lift trio. not many flew out when i watered, less than a dozen. one flew in my ear so one less!

View attachment 72536

the hydro plants didn't get anything. they get to sit there in their own filthy bathwater and stew about what they did growing so fast!!

i didn't even bother checking the pH or ec tonight.. it's the same i'm sure. i did check my tester gallon of the new KOH along with the A16 and i also tried GH cali magic versus using the humbolts i had. all is stable as can be so far and i'll keep checking until i need a changeout and if it's still stable at that time then i'll follow that recipe for sure!!

cleaned up a few leaves and cut some ugly away...

View attachment 72537

Looks like you've found that pesky speed bump in your soil grows buddy.
The big advantage the 'dro has over the soil is oxygen in the roots and it always plays out this way in side by sides.
I think the only way to keep up is to use aerating containers like airpots or fabric bags and cut the soil 75/25 with xtra perlite if needed.
And downsize container as well. Like I think you're in 7gallon, cut it down to 2-3 gallon next time especially for autos. You'll get a faster dry back which means more air and a more rapid exchange in watering.
I don't cut my soil but the airpots are where I find the speed to keep pace with hydro. I also aerate my water looking for additional ways to inject air into the medium.
The smaller aerating container and xtra perlite will help get lots more oxygen to the roots instead of being choked off like that. The hydro can breathe freely so you want to achieve that in the soil otherwise it's like the roots are trying to breathe with a pillow covering their face.

 

[Costanza]

Looks like you've found that pesky speed bump in your soil grows buddy.
The big advantage the 'dro has over the soil is oxygen in the roots and it always plays out this way in side by sides.
I think the only way to keep up is to use aerating containers like airpots or fabric bags and cut the soil 75/25 with xtra perlite if needed.
And downsize container as well. Like I think you're in 7gallon, cut it down to 2-3 gallon next time especially for autos. You'll get a faster dry back which means more air and a more rapid exchange in watering.
I don't cut my soil but the airpots are where I find the speed to keep pace with hydro. I also aerate my water looking for additional ways to inject air into the medium.
The smaller aerating container and xtra perlite will help get lots more oxygen to the roots instead of being choked off like that. The hydro can breathe freely so you want to achieve that in the soil otherwise it's like the roots are trying to breathe with a pillow covering their face.

I grew in soil my first couple years and I have a heavy hand so I failed miserably.
that smaller pots and extra perlite is the way to go I found it difficult to give proper nutrient levels to the plants when they didn't have proper drybacks and I would always get a few plants that would be on different watering schedules. Haven't tried hydro yet still on coco but not sure I'll ever go back to soil unless I start growing outdoors

 

[Bandit420]

I grew in soil my first couple years and I have a heavy hand so I failed miserably.
that smaller pots and extra perlite is the way to go I found it difficult to give proper nutrient levels to the plants when they didn't have proper drybacks and I would always get a few plants that would be on different watering schedules. Haven't tried hydro yet still on coco but not sure I'll ever go back to soil unless I start growing outdoors

It was my past work and experience with several types of hydro from no medium tech like DWC and aero to coco and hydroton mediums that really upped my game in organics and soil.
Out of everything, aeroponics is my favorite but getting it organic is extremely difficult and very high maintenance.
I think the best thing any grower can do is cross train and apply what we learn across the mediums into the preferred choice. I bounce back and forth trying things but the goal is always to be organic and go saltless. Organic is probaly the only thing I'm really married to in growing weed. Everything else is up for grabs.
But I'd definitely say the things I can do in soils and organics today would not be where they are if not for lots of experience in hydro

 

[Stoneyluv]

Looks like you've found that pesky speed bump in your soil grows buddy.
The big advantage the 'dro has over the soil is oxygen in the roots and it always plays out this way in side by sides.
I think the only way to keep up is to use aerating containers like airpots or fabric bags and cut the soil 75/25 with xtra perlite if needed.
And downsize container as well. Like I think you're in 7gallon, cut it down to 2-3 gallon next time especially for autos. You'll get a faster dry back which means more air and a more rapid exchange in watering.
I don't cut my soil but the airpots are where I find the speed to keep pace with hydro. I also aerate my water looking for additional ways to inject air into the medium.
The smaller aerating container and xtra perlite will help get lots more oxygen to the roots instead of being choked off like that. The hydro can breathe freely so you want to achieve that in the soil otherwise it's like the roots are trying to breathe with a pillow covering their face.

yea i really shot myself in the foot with these bigger containers.. i was trying for a final pot thing with the autos but auto or not they're still plants and i should have treated them as such. i should have started small like you say and having dry backs would have helped considerably plus when upcanning you get the fresh new soil added in!!

it's okay man, i've completely decided this will not be my last side x side!!! i really like the hydro and it's been a lot of fun for me and super glad i tried it and can't wait to take everything i learned so far and get another shot at it.

i think with some better practice and giving the soil plants a much better start i can do better and i feel the autos held me back just a little because that little bit of stress pushed the soil plants into flower and now i'm stuck at the small size.

next run will be with photos and some much needed changes. i also want to make the room itself a little more controllable, i've been lucky so far and i am able to keep the numbers in check but other times of the year might not be as lucky.

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in the middle of week five right now...



i raised the two soil plants up to match the same lighting level...





one is growing good and the others are ehhh... i screwed it all up with the orange oil it was such a setback.

i have all the bloom nutrients mixed and aerating.. the organics in the flourolicious is teaming well with the orca!!!!! it's got foam and that yummy organic smell to it!!!! it's been holding steady at 5.7 and around 510ppm.... probably do a rez change out tomorrow.

i put in Agsil 16 - KOH- Calimagic - Nova Bloom - Koolbloom - Orca - King Crab - Flouralicious

 

[Stoneyluv]

end of week five and growing lopsided..

 

[GrumpAzz]

Did the soil plants start to flower?

Edit: oh yeah.. they're autos

 

[Costanza]

end of week five and growing lopsided..

View attachment 73610

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I love that song

 

[Stoneyluv]

Did the soil plants start to flower?

Edit: oh yeah.. they're autos

yea they did, all five (including the gallon challenge) switched.

i switched to bloom nutes on tuesday. 550 ppm of Agsil 16 - KOH- Calimagic - Nova Bloom - Koolbloom - Orca - King Crab - Flouralicious

also forgot to mention i bought a quart of acid for $30 and reduced it down to 20% and made a gallon of high proof pH down!!!

I love that song

one of the best for sure!!!!!!!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

performed my very first top off tonight!!! just plain water as it was my first.. i'm gonna let it circulate for a couple hours and take the readings and do the math!!

Question: when i top off with nutes i don't need to add silicate again, correct? just calmag/nutes let it circulate and correct pH if needed?

duckies head floated right under the lid so i knew it was time!! plants used two gallons in eight days.










the soil plants are at the point of no return and will flower the best they can... still fighting gnats...

 

[GrumpAzz]

Question: when i top off with nutes i don't need to add silicate again, correct? just calmag/nutes let it circulate and correct pH if needed?

I don't do the top-ups like Aqua and Smoke but my top-off res still contains some silicate until I'm flowering. It's the same solution as the lowers only diluted down a but.

I mix 50 gallons, dump 30-35 gallons into the lowers, then add RO to the top-off. I've been leaving 30 gallons in the top-off so that's roughly 2/3 of the initial EC.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I don't do the top-ups like Aqua and Smoke but my top-off res still contains some silicate until I'm flowering. It's the same solution as the lowers only diluted down a but.

I mix 50 gallons, dump 30-35 gallons into the lowers, then add RO to the top-off. I've been leaving 30 gallons in the top-off so that's roughly 2/3 of the initial EC.

thanks, i'm in flower and didn't want to over do it. i figured the potassium thats in there is mostly for buffer and the plant isn't eating much of it so if i keep adding it i might go too far.

the volume you guys use is mind blowing to me.. with only having a small plant and a half they don't use much at all. i'll be mixing two weeks of my top off nutes in a five gallon bucket!!

so in the past week my plants only used 60ppm of the food i gave them... it's like when you take your lady out for steak and lobster and she only eats the salad!!!!!

i'm just shocked on how little they used. i really can't wait to start over again.. i learned a bunch so far and look forward to learning more!

 

[Stoneyluv]

mixed up some top off nutes last week and gave them half over the weekend. i only mixed up four gallons. and it was only at 250ppm, if they only want salad then thats all they get!

i should have named this thread hydro vs hydro... i assume i made a bad choice in genetics and this is not some severe design flaw in my system?




i added higher pedestals to the soil plants..



i bet i could two plant SCROG that whole cabinet off...