Bean's Stash Closet

[Anthem275]

I too have wondered about this, and doubt that they can do that for reasons Moe mentioned. The red flag for me that says this is not being done was a lesson I learned when I first started growing in soil. Our well water rides between 700 and 900 ppm and I had read that I would not be able to use that water to grow cannabis. My stubborn ass had to f around and find out, which I did, lol.

I still don't understand the science behind it, but with all the tds in our water, the plants can't take in the good stuff no matter how much of it you give them when all that other stuff is in the water. Doesn't make logical sense to me, but I almost killed my first plants until I started getting bottled water from town. If they could pick and choose, I would think this would be the perfect scenario for them to do that, but they do not.

Sorry about the previous post, computer problems. You have to look at the TDS ratio as well. If it is high in Calcium than it will cause problems with uptake of other nutrients. Moulders Chart is a place to start

 

[moe.red]

I think it has a very limited ability to determine what elements present in the water it takes up to allow or block. I think it takes up all nutes in the ratios that we put them in the water, and the wrong ratios lead to imbalances. I think it might manage PH thru exudates to say allow uptake of flower nutes over veg nutes by changing the PH right around the roots.

The area the plant can control PH is limited. I question how this would apply to a multi gallon system pumping water thru out the system 24/7.

I agree with everything you just said.

The PH thing was not a RDWC thing, it is a plant in dirt thing. I don't think the ability to change PH is drastic either.

Over time, we see PH shift in RDWC. Generally a very small amount. It can go off the rails based on decaying organics or other things, but my belief is that if you run a clean system, its the plants that at least partially cause the PH to trend over time. I could be wrong. But again, a very limited amount. I think the bigger impact to the root zone is things like carbs and aminos that call in symbiotic life.

 

[Anthem275]

I think you are collecting the water in the drain, and re-using it 3 times a day, right? This is not a drain to waste ebb and flow, is it?

If you are using the same water 3x a day for a week, that is not the same as dumping the res.

What I was trying to point out, I am basically empty the soil in the pot 3 times a day. I am moving in the direction that things like tip burn are the result of improper percentages of nutrient uptake. The plant uptakes 1 molecule at a time. It has some ability to pick and choose, but it cannot over come a gross percentage of error. I have learned from this jacks stuff because there is no tip burn. But if I start messing with the ratios I can get tip burn. I just moved some clones from their 1 part seedling to their standard formula at full tilt and no tip burn. Leading me to believe that ratios are key. which is my reasoning for doing weekly water changes. I believe as the plant uptakes water and nutrients the ratios become out of balance.

If you get tip burn like the OLD GROWERS use to say time to back it down, you have already impacted the yield. No different than VPD or any other environmental difference.

There is so much more to this than just NPK. While I detest the liquid nutrient lines I have to admit they have done their research and applied their knowledge to their products. The next time you pick up a bottle of TRIO and think the only things the bottle has are those listed as the NPK ratio I am afraid you are grossly mistaken. They use every legal product they can to increase yield. From kelp to alfalfa.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Is it possible to regulate uptake of desired nutrients via managing pH around the absorption ranges?

 

[Anthem275]

I agree with everything you just said.

The PH thing was not a RDWC thing, it is a plant in dirt thing. I don't think the ability to change PH is drastic either.

Over time, we see PH shift in RDWC. Generally a very small amount. It can go off the rails based on decaying organics or other things, but my belief is that if you run a clean system, its the plants that at least partially cause the PH to trend over time. I could be wrong. But again, a very limited amount. I think the bigger impact to the root zone is things like carbs and aminos that call in symbiotic life.

I believe the change in PH is driven by the ion uptake of the nutrients. Meaning it uptakes more positive ions I believe and that raises the PH. I need to study up more on that.

 

[Anthem275]

Is it possible to regulate uptake of desired nutrients via managing pH around the absorption ranges?

To some degree. I do this presently, start out with a PH of say 5.6 and at the end of the grow I am at 5.9 but it is NOT a secret weapon and it only slightly limits the uptake of say Nitrogen which is what you want to slow down later in flower.

 

[Cool_Beans]

To some degree. I do this presently, start out with a PH of say 5.6 and at the end of the grow I am at 5.9 but it is NOT a secret weapon and it only slightly limits the uptake of say Nitrogen which is what you want to slow down later in flower.

This makes sense. Thank you.

 

[moe.red]

Is it possible to regulate uptake of desired nutrients via managing pH around the absorption ranges?

Yes.



Take Phosphorus for example. If your PH is too low, you will essentially prevent the uptake. Anthem is right, it has to do with the ions in play.

Look at Calcium and Magnesium. If you are having a Cal deficiency, like at the beginning of flower, letting the PH drift up is a good thing. Let it drift too far and iron becomes a problem.

There are many charts out there and often they are drawn differently. Also note that Hydro is not the same as soil, and there are different charts for soil. The bottom line is the macro trends are true regardless of the specifics.

When you hear the term lockout - this is where it comes from.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Hell yeah. Feel like I'm asking the right questions here. You guys rock

 

[moe.red]

Hell yeah. Feel like I'm asking the right questions here. You guys rock

Yes, you are. It is rewarding to work with someone who does.

I get a kick out of reliving my early days of growing thru someone else's eyes. Any successes I had back then were pure luck. My mentors were books and trial and error. Errors can really take the fun out of it.

In my first grow, I had no inkling of what PH was or why it mattered. And of course, being illegal I was covert and could not really ask questions.

It was super exciting to get seeds in the mail 2 months after ordering- never really knowing if they were just gonna take your money and run. Herbies Headshop was my first genetics provider. The seeds came in a little jar full of beads. Had to fish them out.

I don't know how many plants I have grown, but I do remember the excitement of getting started, and the defeat of all the mistakes I made.

You don't need to go as far down the rabbit hole as I did in this hobby to be successful and happy. But if you want to, I'll be around to talk it thru with you.

 

[smoke]

Dumping the whole rez can be looked at as unnatural but I do it three times a day. Ebb and Flow water for 30 minutes 3 times a day. It still produces high yields.
What actual is tip burn? Is it too high of PPM or the wrong percentage of NPK and such. I have my own data suggesting it is wrong percentages.

I think it's wrong percentages more than too high of ppm. Sheit, i don't feed high ppms

I get tip burn more often than I don't. This last grow with the white tips seemed to be more exagerated than most

 

[moe.red]

I think it's wrong percentages more than too high of ppm. Sheit, i don't feed high ppms

I get tip burn more often than I don't. This last grow with the white tips seemed to be more exagerated than most

Still can't figure that one out. We need more ideas from great growers. Time to start inviting folks to take a peek.

 

[smoke]

"There are many charts out there and often they are drawn differently. Also note that Hydro is not the same as soil, and there are different charts for soil."

Would it be a good idea to have a section in the menu to put these charts etc.

 

[Moshmen]

Yes.

View attachment 362

Take Phosphorus for example. If your PH is too low, you will essentially prevent the uptake. Anthem is right, it has to do with the ions in play.

Look at Calcium and Magnesium. If you are having a Cal deficiency, like at the beginning of flower, letting the PH drift up is a good thing. Let it drift too far and iron becomes a problem.

There are many charts out there and often they are drawn differently. Also note that Hydro is not the same as soil, and there are different charts for soil. The bottom line is the macro trends are true regardless of the specifics.

When you hear the term lockout - this is where it comes from.

You guys are hurting my head and scaring me again ! Lol what I do is so simple - full melt time I’ll feel better! Lol

 

[Moshmen]

Someday- maybe some standard answers posted somewhere we could copy and paste for us to use

 

[moe.red]

You guys are hurting my head and scaring me again ! Lol what I do is so simple - full melt time I’ll feel better! Lol

Lol you can grow good weed in hydro and not know all this crap. This is just for us special people on the short bus.

This just gets to the whys and the tweaks.

Just set your ph to 5.8 and forget it. The rest will take care of itself. Trust me.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Did some more light defol under the canopy to start cleaning things up. She definitely turned a corner this week. Down 100ppm since Mon.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Well happy Saturday to you too little snip.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Today is week 3 since flip. I've been topping off with water and extra mix I reserved from last feeding, so I'll give it a few more days to burn through it before making any further adjustments. No tip burn or deficiencies noted. The pH settled back to 5.7 and still drinking about 3/4gal daily give or take.

 

[steamroller]

So nice man~!

 

[Cool_Beans]

So nice man~!

Thanks! The rate the plant fills back in from defoliation and pruning has made my attempts at shaping up this canopy a lot of fun.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Noticed a little frost starting to creep in this morning too. Probably good time for another trim to get these sites opened up a bit.

 

[moe.red]

Making it look easy.

Some folks struggle with RDWC. You are doing it right.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Making it look easy.

Some folks struggle with RDWC. You are doing it right.

Thank you, Moe. Really stoked w the potential here. She has given me no reason to fret thus far, but I'll still be very relieved to get one through ok.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Cut it back fairly hard eariler this morning so I dialed the light back 1 tick for next 24hrs. Drinking and eating a lot so Im going to do another 25% ammend toward bloom ratios tomorrow and see what comes of it. Got my first whiff of her true stank and it's glorious.

 

[Bandit420]

Our little aquaponic herb garden is doing pretty good too. It has been a really fun little side project in our grow area, its actually become kind of a family hangout lol. The hydro catnip we are growing makes the cat go nuts, its hilarious. He cries and begs for it like a little junky haha.

Love the aquaponics CB!! By far my favorite way to grow plants. Non stop action and fun!

 

[Cool_Beans]

Love the aquaponics CB!! By far my favorite way to grow plants. Non stop action and fun!

Thanks dude, we love it. Been good entertainment while the weed grows lol.

 

[MysticEpipedon]

Did some more light defol under the canopy to start cleaning things up. She definitely turned a corner this week. Down 100ppm since Mon.

Kind of looks like an acacia on an African savanna.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Alright happy this morning but the defol seems to have taken a little momentum or perhaps its just getting done w stretching.
I wanted to try lower ppm as suggested so I ammended my res with with 3 gal of mix vs 4, and exchanged 6 gal total. Bloom ratios, epsom and no Armor Si. Now around 700ppm give or take. Landed right at 5.85pH, no adjustments needed. Stuck my arm down in the bucket and felt up the roots and they are still clean. Lots of added mass since I did the root spa too.
I also left the light level where it was but dropped it down 5-6 inches. Some outer sites are starting to angle in at the light so I need to get that baby down.
My gut is telling me the next week or so will be where things are most likely to start unraveling w my feed program or lack thereof, so I'm stoked to see what happens.

 

[moe.red]

I need to make a cheat sheet of who is doing what, or quit smoking weed so my memory is better.

I think you are running GH trio. Assuming you are, this is the time I would start backing down the grow and replacing it with micro. I'd say your girls are just a tough N light, and there is plenty of N in micro. As you get thru the stretch and buds are well on their way, we will be backing down N even more.

Remember total PPM is good to know, but the ratios of each macro and micro nutrient are more important than the actual PPM number. Getting the mix right is what separates good farmers from great ones.

If you continue to crush it like this, I predict 10 - 12 OZ dried.

 

[Cool_Beans]

You know, I almost skipped the Gro but figured I'm probably poking the tiger enough as is for my first attempt here lol.

Edit- My veggies are ready to pot up so I can start to harden them off a little before transplanting outside in a couple weeks. Love this time of year so much, everyone is out getting gardens ready lol.

 

[moe.red]

Grow:

Micro:

People often think that Grow is where you get all the N. Not so much.

See that calcium in Micro - that is your friend when you switch to flower and ramping up before the swtich.

P&K are coming from bloom, so you are not loosing out there.

That's my thinking, and I'd say it works well on 85% of the cultivars I have grown.

 

[moe.red]

BTW - that EDTA and EDDHA crap - that's chelation.

What is chelated fertilizer? The word chelate is derived from the Greek word chelé, which refers to a lobster's claw. Hence, chelate refers to the pincer-like way in which a metal nutrient ion is encircled by the larger organic molecule (the claw), usually called a ligand or chelator.

Iron, for example, can only be taken up if a specific ion form.

As it relates to growing, a chelate is an agent that bonds to a micronutrient, thereby making the micronutrient more readily available for uptake in plant cells. It's what makes this synthetic, and we do not need the help of bacterium to break down nutrients to make them plant available. Better living thru chemistry.

 

[Cool_Beans]

My older fans and stuff under the canopy are dark green, I should probably snip one and get it in some natural light so you can further assess. Im not worried about it too much because they otherwise look healthy to my eyes.
My noob thought process was the gro seemed like a place I could try dialing back N a bit since their schedule was already shifting away from it, then monitor to see if any color started getting pulled out of those old fans, adjust if needed. I was also stoned and may have been reading the can of fish food, I dunno. Everything's fine.

 

[Cool_Beans]

This clone is climbing out of it pretty well in the 1 gal bucket. I was planning on vegging it in the tent in another 10gal Brute dwc but maybe try using Jack's stuff this time. I used it for my soil grows and had good luck. Rather not keep buying liquid fertilizers if I can mix myself. USPS often fails at delivering them still inside the bottle on the 1st try.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Pic from later in the day after light and nute adjustment. Definitely angling fans up more but no curling that I could see. Soaking up the water.

 

[Anthem275]

BTW - that EDTA and EDDHA crap - that's chelation.

What is chelated fertilizer? The word chelate is derived from the Greek word chelé, which refers to a lobster's claw. Hence, chelate refers to the pincer-like way in which a metal nutrient ion is encircled by the larger organic molecule (the claw), usually called a ligand or chelator.

Iron, for example, can only be taken up if a specific ion form.

As it relates to growing, a chelate is an agent that bonds to a micronutrient, thereby making the micronutrient more readily available for uptake in plant cells. It's what makes this synthetic, and we do not need the help of bacterium to break down nutrients to make them plant available. Better living thru chemistry.

Moe as I understand it EDTA's contain a lot of salt and are kind of a no no because of the salts.

 

[Anthem275]

My older fans and stuff under the canopy are dark green, I should probably snip one and get it in some natural light so you can further assess. Im not worried about it too much because they otherwise look healthy to my eyes.
My noob thought process was the gro seemed like a place I could try dialing back N a bit since their schedule was already shifting away from it, then monitor to see if any color started getting pulled out of those old fans, adjust if needed. I was also stoned and may have been reading the can of fish food, I dunno. Everything's fine.

Dialing back the N and stripping the lower green leaves at the same time could cause some problems. N is mobile and the plant might be a little low on N. If you leave the lower leaves for a week or so more that might help the plant bring more N up to the top of the plant.

 

[Anthem275]

Grow:

Micro:

People often think that Grow is where you get all the N. Not so much.

See that calcium in Micro - that is your friend when you switch to flower and ramping up before the swtich.

P&K are coming from bloom, so you are not loosing out there.

That's my thinking, and I'd say it works well on 85% of the cultivars I have grown.

Moe the grow has most of the K at transition as well. I use this stuff for Moms now just because it was cheap and easy. But it is looks pretty dam good the way they are tweaking it. Funny how they put the magnesium in every bottle.

 

[Anthem275]

You know, I almost skipped the Gro but figured I'm probably poking the tiger enough as is for my first attempt here lol.

Edit- My veggies are ready to pot up so I can start to harden them off a little before transplanting outside in a couple weeks. Love this time of year so much, everyone is out getting gardens ready lol.

Bell Peppers and Tomateos are already starting to bear! Had to make quick work of the last picture. Bees are extremely aggressive since I brought the population down 2 days ago. Might have to kill off the hive. We have Africanized bees in California. One swarm and I am shit out of luck.