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Newbs 1st grow! Complete failure or a "by the skin of my teeth" documentary 🤔🫣

MiGrampa said:
I usually use large tomato cages inside. I've used single and double layer nets but nets make it hard to get to all the plants unless you can open your tent and get to your plants on at least 3 sides.

I've been growing for years. However, I will be the first to tell you that I very successfully do my own thing when it comes to my grows. So much of what you will find on the internet is bro science ... which isn't science at all. You're better off checking in here at Bud Builders if you have questions. So many other places will lead you astray.
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Yeah, the best advice and help I've got, came through Bud Builders. Big shout out to @Rootsruler for introducing me to this site(was at the farm initially,) thanks 😊 U da man! I've came across soo much info just by reading through others threads that I don't believe i would've ever encountered elsewhere. LOVE this place

I just ordered more nets, but will look into the cages. I only have access to 2/3 doors, one of which is still gonna be a challenge to get in
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moe.red said:
Yes bubble the res.

I only seal my res if I am injecting o2.

Slime should not be white more clear. Maybe post a pic.
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Hey Moe, you the guy but bubbling my res creates chelates and biofilm. I get caking on my circulating pump on the bottom of my tank & through my chiller. I know I'm not in a DWC system but once I stopped the air stones my caking almost disappeared. I still get some grit but no where near the mass of crap I got with the air stones.

I'm run my circulating pump 3 min/hr. This time of year I don't need the chiller hooked up. I also get less grit now without using the circulating pump running 24/7 through my chiller. I'm thinking the more water movement the more build up. It seems I get less silt now than when I run the chiller, my temps are pretty stable at 67f through the 9 months of winter weather.

Thoughts??
 
smoke said:
My first year, i too used frozen water bottles
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It's gonna be a small inconvenience, but as long as I don't win any more big boxes at the local meat raffles, shouldn't be a problem
 
Pipecarver said:
Hey Moe, you the guy but bubbling my res creates chelates and biofilm. I get caking on my circulating pump on the bottom of my tank & through my chiller. I know I'm not in a DWC system but once I stopped the air stones my caking almost disappeared. I still get some grit but no where near the mass of crap I got with the air stones.

I'm run my circulating pump 3 min/hr. This time of year I don't need the chiller hooked up. I also get less grit now without using the circulating pump running 24/7 through my chiller. I'm thinking the more water movement the more build up. It seems I get less silt now than when I run the chiller, my temps are pretty stable at 67f through the 9 months of winter weather.

Thoughts??
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Not sure I’m totally understanding but yes too much bubbling is a bad thing wrt nutes and ph.

For skinny pushing lung room temp air thru the water which also imcreases evaporation would help lower the water temp.
 
moe.red said:
Not sure I’m totally understanding but yes too much bubbling is a bad thing wrt nutes and ph.

For skinny pushing lung room temp air thru the water which also imcreases evaporation would help lower the water temp.
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Too much movement with the nutes as well & speed of movement or frequency of movements. I'm thinking the less movement the better with just the occasional moving to break surface tension and stir but not being agitated constantly. I'm not sure how nutes being bashed through pump impellers react but I know the impellers get caked up with whatever it is in a short period of time.
 
Pipecarver said:
Too much movement with the nutes as well & speed of movement or frequency of movements. I'm thinking the less movement the better with just the occasional moving to break surface tension and stir but not being agitated constantly. I'm not sure how nutes being bashed through pump impellers react but I know the impellers get caked up with whatever it is in a short period of time.
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@Aqua Man is our resident expert on this.

You mentioned chelation.

1738443668289.png

Typically done in nutes with edta. It’s what makes the metals like iron ready to be taken up by the plant. No helper bacteria needed like in organic soil grows.

As far as nutes falling out of suspension there are 2 primary factors. Temp swings and ph swings.

Bubbling introduces nitrogen oxygen and carbon dioxide into the water column. The one we don’t want is CO2.

You are pumping in a lot less co2 than o2 but co2 is 20x more soluble. CO2 in the water column will become carbonic acid

1738444306112.png

Which puts pockets of acid in the water. So too much bubbling and you are shooting yourself in the foot. Once max dissolved o2 for your temp and altitude is achieved more bubbles are only detrimental.

TLDR too much bubbling can cause nutes to fall out of suspension especially in more stagnant systems.
 
Hey @moe.red glad the shot worked brother. Hope things are well.

personally i feel from a chemical reaction standpoint that there cannot be to much surface agitation, water column mixing or bubbling of a nutrient solution….. if we control the atmosphere above the water and for the most part if we dont also. What we need to do is make sure we are using the proper buffers. Eg not using bicarbonate because of the chemical reaction as you described.

A lot depends on the type of nutrients (forms used) and buffers as to the potential problems we may see when it comes to aeration
 
Aqua Man said:
Hey @moe.red glad the shot worked brother. Hope things are well.

personally i feel from a chemical reaction standpoint that there cannot be to much surface agitation, water column mixing or bubbling of a nutrient solution….. if we control the atmosphere above the water and for the most part if we dont also. What we need to do is make sure we are using the proper buffers. Eg not using bicarbonate because of the chemical reaction as you described.

A lot depends on the type of nutrients (forms used) and buffers as to the potential problems we may see when it comes to aeration
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I think we might be making this harder to understand. We are kinda answering pipe’s question on this thread about RDWC. A barrel of nute water and a flowing fallponics system don’t behave identically.

Iirc pipe has a barrel in the garage that he circulates thru to lower temp. Is that right? Very seldom turn the pump on? And this is for the nutes that bottom feed the autopots with coco in them? Or maybe it’s pro mix.

He’s getting precipitation in that setup I think.

I think he is using gh flora but could be wrong.
 
moe.red said:
I think we might be making this harder to understand. We are kinda answering pipe’s question on this thread about RDWC. A barrel of nute water and a flowing fallponics system don’t behave identically.

Iirc pipe has a barrel in the garage that he circulates thru to lower temp. Is that right? Very seldom turn the pump on? And this is for the nutes that bottom feed the autopots with coco in them? Or maybe it’s pro mix.

He’s getting precipitation in that setup I think.

I think he is using gh flora but could be wrong.
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"
Iirc pipe has a barrel in the garage that he circulates thru to lower temp. Is that right? Very seldom turn the pump on? And this is for the nutes that bottom feed the autopots with coco in them? Or maybe it’s pro mix.
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My 10 gal reservoir is in my basement and in summer months it needs cooling but through winter it sits in a 68f room. I got a lot of Chelates and precipitation of nutes with the air stones. Less with just a circulating pump and chiller, even less without the chiller. I do use 100% GH nutes in Promix/perlite and Autopots.

I was commenting on the amount of build up with an air stone,( way too much) without airstones, with a chiller and without a chiller. I find I get less build up with less interaction and was wondering if nutes moving through impellers constantly would add more or less build up. I'm only moving the nutes around for 3 min/hr now rather than 24/7 through my chiller and I seem to have less of a build up. I'm not sure if its the movement or what but less is better than more...
 
Pipecarver said:
"

My 10 gal reservoir is in my basement and in summer months it needs cooling but through winter it sits in a 68f room. I got a lot of Chelates and precipitation of nutes with the air stones. Less with just a circulating pump and chiller, even less without the chiller. I do use 100% GH nutes in Promix/perlite and Autopots.

I was commenting on the amount of build up with an air stone,( way too much) without airstones, with a chiller and without a chiller. I find I get less build up with less interaction and was wondering if nutes moving through impellers constantly would add more or less build up. I'm only moving the nutes around for 3 min/hr now rather than 24/7 through my chiller and I seem to have less of a build up. I'm not sure if its the movement or what but less is better than more...
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Buddy I don’t think so on the impeller but could be wrong. In RDWC we run pumps 24x7 and it does not build up for me at least.
 
moe.red said:
I think we might be making this harder to understand. We are kinda answering pipe’s question on this thread about RDWC. A barrel of nute water and a flowing fallponics system don’t behave identically.

Iirc pipe has a barrel in the garage that he circulates thru to lower temp. Is that right? Very seldom turn the pump on? And this is for the nutes that bottom feed the autopots with coco in them? Or maybe it’s pro mix.

He’s getting precipitation in that setup I think.

I think he is using gh flora but could be wrong.
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Ahh i didn’t read the back story at all… makes sense
 
Anything involving organics will need more cleaning. The better the environment the faster the growth of all organics and microorganisms. Ao its not a bad thing but rather a maintenance schedule thing. This is a lesser issue with sterile setups
 
moe.red said:
Buddy I don’t think so on the impeller but could be wrong. In RDWC we run pumps 24x7 and it does not build up for me at least.
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Not just the impellers the whole pump housing gets coated. I wasn't sure if it was typical or not, I'm just seeing less grit now than in the past and the only difference now is I'm not running it through a chiller and its not being pumped 24/7 through it.

Alls good. I have a bitch about PPFD numbers next. We don't grow in 2D and the PPFD is shown as a flat field. I grow in 3D, I suppose it is a truer reading with a Scrog grow but with buds growing down from 6-8 inches - 24 inches away from the lights what good is it to be confused with a chart that is in 2D.....

I'm sorry to have hacked your thread here but I'm old and just received news of a 25% tariff. Does this mean we're at war? Fk just when I was getting comfortable with your funny accent & we get into a trade war...Fk who needs this shit? I know its going to cost me money one way or the other.
 
Rootsruler said:
@Skinnypuppy80

When I saw you on that other site having issues and reading the responses you were getting I knew this place would be a great fit for what you want to do.
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Yeah dude, pretty sure u saved me quite the headache. In my downtime, I tend to read others threads hoping some of the knowledge there will sink in at some point lol
 
Ugh, another hr or so b4 I can check on the ladies. On my days off, I'm always in their business, probably doing more harm than good lol I do have a consistent RH around 60% though w being able to have the exhaust on(lvl 1 so far) and all air flaps open. I'm hoping I'll c an improvement w growth compared to having no flaps open, and 0 exhaust. Now that keeping the RH up is no longer a problem, should I b turning up the exhaust to like 3 or 4 on the aci controller? I'm probably nitpicking here, but I have a tendency to over think just about everything haha
 
Skinnypuppy80 said:
I think all is going well? Lights on, air temp around 75, RH 60%, leaf temp 72, and got the water temp down to 71 just by removing the res lid!
Took a video that kind of shows current stage of the tent, maybe the link will work?
https://imgur.com/a/xy0w2s7
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Hey, air temp could be a bit higher optimal leaf temp is 78f, I'm around 75f myself, It cost me too much to be in the 80's to get my leaf temps up but I aim for it when I can get it. You don't want light into your res, covering it up may add some heat but light and nutes don't mix well together and you'll get more biofilm
 
Pipecarver said:
Not just the impellers the whole pump housing gets coated. I wasn't sure if it was typical or not, I'm just seeing less grit now than in the past and the only difference now is I'm not running it through a chiller and its not being pumped 24/7 through it.

Alls good. I have a bitch about PPFD numbers next. We don't grow in 2D and the PPFD is shown as a flat field. I grow in 3D, I suppose it is a truer reading with a Scrog grow but with buds growing down from 6-8 inches - 24 inches away from the lights what good is it to be confused with a chart that is in 2D.....

I'm sorry to have hacked your thread here but I'm old and just received news of a 25% tariff. Does this mean we're at war? Fk just when I was getting comfortable with your funny accent & we get into a trade war...Fk who needs this shit? I know its going to cost me money one way or the other.
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While I'm a ScrOGer, when I free grew I would measure PPFD at the top and bottom of the plant and average the two.
 
Rootsruler said:
While I'm a ScrOGer, when I free grew I would measure PPFD at the top and bottom of the plant and average the two.
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And what did that get you other than a bunch of numbers in your head? could you use those numbers?

The map numbers are just an advertising gimmick to me, make it confusing and it must be a good light with all that technical shit attached.

I was recently looking at lights and they all seem to have the same specs with different map numbers using the same diodes. I went with China made cheap and the numbers were impressive....lol...

Is there really a difference in growth with higher end lights, I'm in the $400 range but some run into the $1500 range
 
Pipecarver said:
And what did that get you other than a bunch of numbers in your head?
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Data to use to adjust my lighting.
Pipecarver said:
could you use those numbers?
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Yes
Pipecarver said:
The map numbers are just an advertising gimmick to me, make it confusing and it must be a good light with all that technical shit attached.

I was recently looking at lights and they all seem to have the same specs with different map numbers using the same diodes. I went with China made cheap and the numbers were impressive....lol...

Is there really a difference in growth with higher end lights, I'm in the $400 range but some run into the $1500 range
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Almost all the manufacturers use the same map in their designs so there really isn't any advantage between one or the other unless you are manipulating your spectrum like you can with California Lightworks gear. Youtube has some good videos documenting what the manufacturers are claiming and from what I can see most are pretty close.

Diodes are just one piece of the puzzle when it comes to grow lights. Driver, power supply, etc. will influence the light output. Even the type of potentiometers they use for dimmers can make a difference.

Is there a big difference between them? I agree with you. No real difference for most home growers. Even if there was would most home growers be able to use it? Most growers have no idea what the different spectrums do or how to use them.

I've been using Bestva lights for decades without issue. I've run many different grows with all the main brands like Mars, SpiderFarmer, etc. Never really saw a difference in dry yields.

Snow Skiers tend to like to buy the newest out there. I'm not one of those. I have skis that are more than 30 years old and they turn and stop just fine. Just like skiing, what's most important is skill and being able to max the performance of the gear you are using. It is rare that I get on a lift with someone that is decked out in the latest gear that can actually live up to the performance they're wearing. I usually get to watch them pizza slice it all the way down the mountain.
 
One thing people forget when using air pumps, is that they produce heat, a lot of heat, the bigger the pump the more heat they produce, and this is will transfer to your water. When I was into hydro I gave up worrying about the heat. I just ran my pumps every now and then, that kept my water temps just perfect. One thing that is most important is to run with a good enzyme to keep your water right. (y)
 
I'm really not confident on when and where to trim. I believe the auto needs like 30% reduction, including lower sites? The photos r progessing way quicker than I imagined they would, better husbandry this go round i guess. Water changes 4 both systems tmrw. The auto is just over 10 wks, photos at like 4 wks.20250207_173627.jpg20250207_173646.jpg20250207_173708.jpg20250207_173714.jpg20250207_173719.jpg20250207_173731.jpg
 
I’m not an auto guy but I don’t think you crop fim or really even trim autos?

Too early for a haircut on the photos. Especially if you need rh to be higher.

It’s time to start thinking about the flip. Ease up the cal mag proportions on your water change. I see a single brown spot on a fan that could be where you dripped but it could also be calcium. RDWC tends to show more of the calcium deficiency issues common at flip than soil. Because the plants are growing so fast.

1739008694895.png

1739008934652.jpeg
 
moe.red said:
I’m not an auto guy but I don’t think you crop fim or really even trim autos?

Too early for a haircut on the photos. Especially if you need rh to be higher.

It’s time to start thinking about the flip. Ease up the cal mag proportions on your water change. I see a single brown spot on a fan that could be where you dripped but it could also be calcium. RDWC tends to show more of the calcium deficiency issues common at flip than soil. Because the plants are growing so fast.

View attachment 89288

View attachment 89289
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Those spots started showing up on almost every plant. Did a little research and guessed it was cal deficiency? Dosed both systems w like 100-150 ppm cal-mag 2 days ago, and they all started growing like weeds! I'm thinking I need a different nute recipe, or just add when I see the deficiency again?

How do I know when to flip? I was gonna go off the age, like 7-8 weeks of veg? The photos r just shy a day of 4 weeks of veg.
I appreciate your advice and all the other ppl here. I guess I need to make more trial/errors and such so I can read the plants better.

Do u top, fim, or just defoliate? I was under the impression topping or fimming helps with yield
 
moe.red said:
I’m not an auto guy but I don’t think you crop fim or really even trim autos?

Too early for a haircut on the photos. Especially if you need rh to be higher.

It’s time to start thinking about the flip. Ease up the cal mag proportions on your water change. I see a single brown spot on a fan that could be where you dripped but it could also be calcium. RDWC tends to show more of the calcium deficiency issues common at flip than soil. Because the plants are growing so fast.

View attachment 89288

View attachment 89289
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Imo, that chart is too late for everything cannabis and is found here.

I use this chart created by bill farthing for cannabis.

Screenshot_20240105-085100_Gallery.jpg

I flip around week 7 or 8 and grow trees. I try to defoliate a few days before flip and top or fim at the same time , and don't touch them again until day 21 of flwr to remove more.
 
smoke said:
Imo, that chart is too late for everything cannabis and is found here.

I use this chart created by bill farthing for cannabis.

View attachment 89319

I flip around week 7 or 8 and grow trees. I try to defoliate a few days before flip and top or fim at the same time , and don't touch them again until day 21 of flwr to remove more.
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Yeah, don't think my tent will hold the monsters u grow! Shit, if I grew like u, this house would turn into a 3 level lol Which means I should flip em soon like moe suggested
 
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