tobh's troll cave

[tobh]

Yup those slabs are dope for high-freq-fert and crop steering.

Are you going to be messing with crop steering this round too?

Wanted to attempt it at some point, thought somewhat possible to manually place pot on scale and take a bunch of measurements between the dry-saturated range and record them to get an idea on water content % and manipulate from there, definitely need an E.C meter then.

to an extent, yeah. i won't be going based off weights, though. between EC and the texture of the wool you can get a pretty solid gauge of the WC, albeit like a butt dyno after installing new parts on your car. i try to avoid fucking with the slabs once they're loaded up just because of how fragile the rockwool structure is when saturated. can't really call my method crop steering but it falls in line with the basic concepts and is high fertigation so we'll call it crop "steering"

some day i'll get some microcontrollers and sensors, maybe. not sure if i want to invest that heavily into this style of growing vs taking the plunge into RDWC.

 

[Observer]

to an extent, yeah. i won't be going based off weights, though. between EC and the texture of the wool you can get a pretty solid gauge of the WC, albeit like a butt dyno after installing new parts on your car. i try to avoid fucking with the slabs once they're loaded up just because of how fragile the rockwool structure is when saturated. can't really call my method crop steering but it falls in line with the basic concepts and is high fertigation so we'll call it crop "steering"

some day i'll get some microcontrollers and sensors, maybe. not sure if i want to invest that heavily into this style of growing vs taking the plunge into RDWC.

Gotcha

Good to know

I'm missing my first dwc bucket I tried, I just didn't get to flower her out and I vegged her higher than the LED and to tent ceiling in a 2x4 lol.

 

[GrumpAzz]

some day i'll get some microcontrollers and sensors, maybe. not sure if i want to invest that heavily into this style of growing vs taking the plunge into RDWC.

I've had pretty decent luck with my first RDWC. There are a lot of knowledgeable guys here in that aspect. So far I'm loving it and glad I went this route, but your grow here has really stimulated my curiosity.

 

[Rootsruler]

How were you able to pop such healthy thick roots? Is it genetic to the cultivar or are you using some sort of root enhancer?

 

[tobh]

I've had pretty decent luck with my first RDWC. There are a lot of knowledgeable guys here in that aspect. So far I'm loving it and glad I went this route, but your grow here has really stimulated my curiosity.

awesome, glad you're digging it so far. as long i remember to set the pump timers back on auto and keep the lights from going full send, it should be a much smoother run than last time.

How were you able to pop such healthy thick roots? Is it genetic to the cultivar or are you using some sort of root enhancer?

i truly think it's because i used the 3" delta blocks instead of the 4" blocks that are more common. finding the 3" blocks took some digging, but they're what @Dirtbag uses and i can really see why now. rooted the clones in rapid rooters, then just shoved the well rooted rooters into the deltas, let the blocks get more dry than usual until the roots were sucking the things dry within a day, and now we're on the slabs.

i'll repeat the same process by not water for a few days, checking moisture content in the slabs by feel, then will start hand watering for probably another week, then automate the fertigation cycles per usual.

 

[Rootsruler]

awesome, glad you're digging it so far. as long i remember to set the pump timers back on auto and keep the lights from going full send, it should be a much smoother run than last time.

i truly think it's because i used the 3" delta blocks instead of the 4" blocks that are more common. finding the 3" blocks took some digging, but they're what @Dirtbag uses and i can really see why now. rooted the clones in rapid rooters, then just shoved the well rooted rooters into the deltas, let the blocks get more dry than usual until the roots were sucking the things dry within a day, and now we're on the slabs.

i'll repeat the same process by not water for a few days, checking moisture content in the slabs by feel, then will start hand watering for probably another week, then automate the fertigation cycles per usual.

So you keep the water content in the cubes low to spur root growth? Would you say that "dry" is very lightly damp if you split the cube or actually bone dry?

When I propogate in dirt I water them in thoroughly then let them dryback. I might water them lightly one more time but usually one watering is all I need before they're firmly rooted.

 

[Dirtbag]

So you keep the water content in the cubes low to spur root growth? Would you say that "dry" is very lightly damp if you split the cube or actually bone dry?

When I propogate in dirt I water them in thoroughly then let them dryback. I might water them lightly one more time but usually one watering is all I need before they're firmly rooted.

Can't speak for @tobh but I'll add my 2c, the idea for me is just to let the blocks get quite dry, but not quite bone dry. Bone dry is never good. But you want to let them dry up significantly which can take a few days after transplant. It will force the roots to explore a lot faster than if they had constant saturation.

The same thing applies to a more dramatic extent if you plant clones directly into Hugo 6x6's. If the block is kept saturated or you plant in them while too wet, they take forever to root. Let them get good and dry before putting a cut in them and you get roots hella faster.

 

[Rootsruler]

Can't speak for @tobh but I'll add my 2c, the idea for me is just to let the blocks get quite dry, but not quite bone dry. Bone dry is never good. But you want to let them dry up significantly which can take a few days after transplant. It will force the roots to explore a lot faster than if they had constant saturation.

The same thing applies to a more dramatic extent if you plant clones directly into Hugo 6x6's. If the block is kept saturated or you plant in them while too wet, they take forever to root. Let them get good and dry before putting a cut in them and you get roots hella faster.

Just so I have a good parallel. If I took a 4" grodan block and spun it around like I was roping cattle to remove moisture. Or like a well rung out sponge? Would you consider that the limit of dry you want to get to before rehydrating? If I do have to rehydrate would a light watering be advisable to keep the media on the dryer side?

 

[tobh]

So you keep the water content in the cubes low to spur root growth? Would you say that "dry" is very lightly damp if you split the cube or actually bone dry?

When I propogate in dirt I water them in thoroughly then let them dryback. I might water them lightly one more time but usually one watering is all I need before they're firmly rooted.

Just so I have a good parallel. If I took a 4" grodan block and spun it around like I was roping cattle to remove moisture. Or like a well rung out sponge? Would you consider that the limit of dry you want to get to before rehydrating? If I do have to rehydrate would a light watering be advisable to keep the media on the dryer side?

So, I go based off weight by feel. I waited until they felt almost the same as a completely new, unsaturated block. You can also visually tell because they go from a darker algae type green to a sandy whitish green.

Basically the same exact thing you do in soil, it just happens way faster in wool

 

[Dirtbag]

Just so I have a good parallel. If I took a 4" grodan block and spun it around like I was roping cattle to remove moisture. Or like a well rung out sponge? Would you consider that the limit of dry you want to get to before rehydrating? If I do have to rehydrate would a light watering be advisable to keep the media on the dryer side?

Probably a little drier than that. After transplant I wait for the block to feel alarmingly lightweight, but should still feel slightly damp on the bottom. And no, if you have to rehydrate a block I prefer to dunk them to full saturation to reduce or eliminate hotspots of dry salts in the wool. The only exception I would make to that is when using the Hugo because they can be a massive pain in the ass when they're fully saturated.

A 3 or 4" block I dunk in a bucket of nutrient solution to feed. It's hard to fuck up the 3" cubes though, they just root so much faster than anything else I find.

I just check on them once a day and if they feel suddenly weightless, give them a dunk. Repeat until they're rooted enough for the slab

 

[tobh]

Probably a little drier than that. After transplant I wait for the block to feel alarmingly lightweight, but should still feel slightly damp on the bottom. And no, if you have to rehydrate a block I prefer to dunk them to full saturation to reduce or eliminate hotspots of dry salts in the wool. The only exception I would make to that is when using the Hugo because they can be a massive pain in the ass when they're fully saturated.

A 3 or 4" block I dunk in a bucket of nutrient solution to feed. It's hard to fuck up the 3" cubes though, they just root so much faster than anything else I find.

I just check on them once a day and if they feel suddenly weightless, give them a dunk. Repeat until they're rooted enough for the slab

This guy has all the wisdom, gents. I just pretend to know WTF I'm doing, it's really all dirtbag telling me how not to fuck up in the background

 

[Dirtbag]

So, I go based off weight by feel. I waited until they felt almost the same as a completely new, unsaturated block. You can also visually tell because they go from a darker algae type green to a sandy whitish green.

Basically the same exact thing you do in soil, it just happens way faster in wool

Exactly right, it should feel like you're picking up a brand new unsaturated block. When it feels light as a feather, it's time to water again.

 

[Dirtbag]

This guy has all the wisdom, gents. I just pretend to know WTF I'm doing, it's really all dirtbag telling me how not to fuck up in the background

Nah, don't sell yourself short, most of the shit I say was told to me by other people too.
I'm happy to see the techniques getting passed along.

 

[Observer]

don't get me wrong, i love me some coco. it was actually what moved me into hydro many moons ago. i just really like the cleanliness of hydro. since i've moved to the PNW, without fail, coco or peat-based medias lead to fungus gnats. haven't had issues with those in wool, dutch buckets, or F&D, and the cleanup from all these is almost as simple as taking shit outside and spraying it down with a hose, hitting it with bleach, rinsing it again, and letting it dry.

I may just move to rockwool

Sold on cleanliness and not fucking with coco particles/dirt/gnats.

 

[tobh]

I may just move to rockwool

Sold on cleanliness and not fucking with coco particles/dirt/gnats.

it has its own caveats, like the fact that it's not biodegradable and recycling facilities that will accept it are exceedingly rare. i've had some "greener" types outright call me evil for promoting it. it's also much less forgiving to fuck ups. you have to be on top of your game, especially with heavily rooted plants that are drinking a ton.

recovering from pH and EC issues is relatively easy but if you let it dry out too much, it almost seems to suck the moisture out of the plants (can't confirm that's the case).

you also have to be very mindful of the space you have to grow in. these plants move way faster than coco plants, and make soil plants look like sloths.

however, you can push the plants harder and be more aggressive with pruning than in other mediums due to the speed. basically every bit of research that's been done on crop steering is specific to rockwool -- some claim to do it in coco, but rockwool is the preferred medium for crop steering. the cleanliness is better than just about any other system I've ran including F&D and NFT. cleanup and resetting is a much simpler ordeal when you're not having to contend with potentially tens of gallons of nutrient solution. there is a lot of aftermarket support in the form of irrigation systems and whatnot. and, unlike most soil-like mediums, you can run subsequent crops in the same media without having to pull out all the roots as long as you run sterile.

 

[Observer]

it has its own caveats, like the fact that it's not biodegradable and recycling facilities that will accept it are exceedingly rare. i've had some "greener" types outright call me evil for promoting it. it's also much less forgiving to fuck ups. you have to be on top of your game, especially with heavily rooted plants that are drinking a ton.

recovering from pH and EC issues is relatively easy but if you let it dry out too much, it almost seems to suck the moisture out of the plants (can't confirm that's the case).

you also have to be very mindful of the space you have to grow in. these plants move way faster than coco plants, and make soil plants look like sloths.

however, you can push the plants harder and be more aggressive with pruning than in other mediums due to the speed. basically every bit of research that's been done on crop steering is specific to rockwool -- some claim to do it in coco, but rockwool is the preferred medium for crop steering. the cleanliness is better than just about any other system I've ran including F&D and NFT. cleanup and resetting is a much simpler ordeal when you're not having to contend with potentially tens of gallons of nutrient solution. there is a lot of aftermarket support in the form of irrigation systems and whatnot. and, unlike most soil-like mediums, you can run subsequent crops in the same media without having to pull out all the roots as long as you run sterile.

That's what I was reading too, sucks it's not too recyclable or green though.

When I first bought a cube a year or so ago I looked at the thing like wtf do I do with this?

Much more confident now, definitely seems something youd want to have automated though.

And now that I've taught my self coco and DWC I feel ready for the wool


Definitely gotta get the appropriate tools and gear though it seems to make it go smoother.

EC/pH/probes/automation stuff

 

[Observer]

But I like challenges I could get a cube or two and start experimenting with it manually

 

[tobh]

That's what I was reading too, sucks it's not too recyclable or green though.

When I first bought a cube a year or so ago I looked at the thing like wtf do I do with this?

Much more confident now, definitely seems something youd want to have automated though.

And now that I've taught my self coco and DWC I feel ready for the wool


Definitely gotta get the appropriate tools and gear though it seems to make it go smoother.

EC/pH/probes/automation stuff

yeah, until you feel comfortable with your nutrients. i don't even check the EC of my solutions anymore but I've used the same nutrients for like four years now. Definitely need the EC meter to check the media, though. everything about wool is concerned about the root zone.

otherwise, a couple pumps, some plumbing, some extra timers, and you're ready to do it to it. you can even treat the shit damn near exactly the same as high fertigation coco if you want.

 

[Observer]

yeah, until you feel comfortable with your nutrients. i don't even check the EC of my solutions anymore but I've used the same nutrients for like four years now. Definitely need the EC meter to check the media, though. everything about wool is concerned about the root zone.

otherwise, a couple pumps, some plumbing, some extra timers, and you're ready to do it to it. you can even treat the shit damn near exactly the same as high fertigation coco if you want.

Sweet, thanks tobh.

Gotta get this place in order, and get on it down the line.

Hard to work around the active little one lol.

 

[tobh]

Sweet, thanks tobh.

Gotta get this place in order, and get on it down the line.

Hard to work around the active little one lol.

i hear ya. finally have an empty house so I'm finally knocking out the last bits of "heavy" work i've needed to get done and couldn't without constant distraction or risk of injury. one thing at a time, ya know.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Sweet, thanks tobh.

Gotta get this place in order, and get on it down the line.

Hard to work around the active little one lol.

Toddlers are fun, eh? Mine seems to be entering the terrible twos. She's really trying to learn just how far she can push the limits.

 

[tobh]

just wait for the four-nagers then the 6-going-on-30s. eventually they stop breaking shit just because they have no motor skills and transition to breaking shit because they're assholes that want to kill their parents.

 

[Observer]

just wait for the four-nagers then the 6-going-on-30s. eventually they stop breaking shit just because they have no motor skills and transition to breaking shit because they're assholes that want to kill their parents.

Hahaha, fuck me I ain't ready

First thing she did in apartment was run around and then got into a bag of sugar and dumped it all out lol

 

[Rootsruler]

Probably a little drier than that. After transplant I wait for the block to feel alarmingly lightweight, but should still feel slightly damp on the bottom. And no, if you have to rehydrate a block I prefer to dunk them to full saturation to reduce or eliminate hotspots of dry salts in the wool. The only exception I would make to that is when using the Hugo because they can be a massive pain in the ass when they're fully saturated.

A 3 or 4" block I dunk in a bucket of nutrient solution to feed. It's hard to fuck up the 3" cubes though, they just root so much faster than anything else I find.

I just check on them once a day and if they feel suddenly weightless, give them a dunk. Repeat until they're rooted enough for the slab

Awright. So when it feels like it's time to water wait another day.

Hmmmm....this has me thinking. I couldn't tell from the picture but those thick ass roots don't seem to have many secondary and tertiary roots coming off the main ones. Do these drier than normal conditions kill off young roots and the mains get all the energy hence why they're as thick as they are?

 

[Observer]

Awright. So when it feels like it's time to water wait another day.

Hmmmm....this has me thinking. I couldn't tell from the picture but those thick ass roots don't seem to have many secondary and tertiary roots coming off the main ones. Do these drier than normal conditions kill off young roots and the mains get all the energy hence why they're as thick as they are?

Nice observation, sounds plausible.

 

[Rootsruler]

Nice observation, sounds plausible.

Check the screen name...............

 

[Dirtbag]

Awright. So when it feels like it's time to water wait another day.

Hmmmm....this has me thinking. I couldn't tell from the picture but those thick ass roots don't seem to have many secondary and tertiary roots coming off the main ones. Do these drier than normal conditions kill off young roots and the mains get all the energy hence why they're as thick as they are?

The feeder roots are probably there inside the wool, outside the wool not so much. Unless you're keeping the blocks in a humidity chamber.
But yeah drier conditions will promote the main fibrous roots to focus on growing out and down looking for water rather than producing feeder roots, which is the whole point really. Once you have the wool reasonably rooted out and start keeping it wet, it'll produce feeder roots galore.

 

[tobh]

Hahaha, fuck me I ain't ready

First thing she did in apartment was run around and then got into a bag of sugar and dumped it all out lol

dude.. mine decided to take a couple large containers of sugar and put them in everything in the pantry a couple weeks ago. somewhere to the tune of $500 worth of dry goods meant to last months, wasted. they got food coloring and water, and mixed it with all the pasta. they opened any canned good that had a pull tab -- not fully, just enough to break the seal.

if they weren't four and six, i would've kicked their asses then kicked them out of my house. my wallet's asshole is still recovering from that act of financial sodomy.

Awright. So when it feels like it's time to water wait another day.

Hmmmm....this has me thinking. I couldn't tell from the picture but those thick ass roots don't seem to have many secondary and tertiary roots coming off the main ones. Do these drier than normal conditions kill off young roots and the mains get all the energy hence why they're as thick as they are?

another day might be too long, tbh. once they have roots established like what you saw, they can suck a block dry within 18 hours, if not faster. if it weren't for the temps i'm running at currently (average 71F -- not great but one light was burning up until today), i would've likely needed to be watering twice a day before the slabs.

there are a lot of secondary and tertiary roots, you just don't see them. right now the clones are just generating a shit ton of major "pipelines" for lack of a better term. even the roots that were showing had very fine filaments on the outside -- they looked almost like velvet-fuzzy in person. so I'm sure the blocks are full of finer hair-like roots and the bigger ones are just the main arteries for the topside plant material.

when harvest comes i'll snag some pics of the root systems. they end up like a bed of thick roots, similar to what you see in RDWC.

 

[Rootsruler]

I'm gonna try rooting a few clones in blocks then, once they have roots starting to bust out like yours, I'm going to roll the blocks in myco like I'm applying panko and bury them in their home pots!!! I'll water them in with a nice shot of AN Voodoo Juice to really get the community going.

 

[GoodShit97]

just wait for the four-nagers then the 6-going-on-30s. eventually they stop breaking shit just because they have no motor skills and transition to breaking shit because they're assholes that want to kill their parents.

As the father of 2 boys, a very soon to be 4 year old and an 8 year old, i can say i 100% agree with this....

My 4 year old just breaks shit cause he thinks its funny.....
Then hell tell you "you're a fucken douchebag" and kick you in the leg, nuts, gut, ass, anywhere he can reach man. Hes a demon.

 

[Rootsruler]

Yup! It's the age of " How far can I push this and come out alive"

 

[tobh]

As the father of 2 boys, a very soon to be 4 year old and an 8 year old, i can say i 100% agree with this....

My 4 year old just breaks shit cause he thinks its funny.....
Then hell tell you "you're a fucken douchebag" and kick you in the leg, nuts, gut, ass, anywhere he can reach man. Hes a demon.

dude. i thought my daughter was evil. still not 100% convinced she's not. but when she was younger, she was a real mean person. then her brother was born. at least the girl listens now, and is pretty damn solid for a six year old. she cleans, isn't terribly destructive, but entirely too smart for her own good.

my son? that little shit couldn't care less about consequence or punishment. he's gonna do whatever he wants, when he wants, and to hell with you if you tell him otherwise. kid has some massive cojones for someone that weighs 40lbs and is less than 4' tall.

 

[tobh]

Yup! It's the age of " How far can I push this and come out alive"

my shrink used to tell me that. doesn't change the fact i want to football kick a child more often than not.

EDIT: because this is a public forum and is indexed by search engines, i do not condone nor engage in child abuse. any parent should recognize this is humorous and nothing more. fuck off if your sensitivities have been offended by this comment; that's why my kids will beat your kids up because my kids aren't being raised by a sensitive bitch.

 

[Dirtbag]

After my last grow I cut one of the unislabs apart to see what was up with the roots. This was after a 3 week veg and 10 week flower.

On side you can see how the whole slab is full of root mass.

 

[tobh]

After my last grow I cut one of the unislabs apart to see what was up with the roots. This was after a 3 week veg and 10 week flower.View attachment 19939

On side you can see how the whole slab is full of root mass.View attachment 19940

the topside on your plants was somewhere in the range of 1.5-2 meters right?

 

[Dirtbag]

the topside on your plants was somewhere in the range of 1.5-2 meters right?

About 1m or so. I kept them pretty well trained.
First pic is flip day, last 2 pics were closer to the end and gives you a better idea of the size of the plants.

 

[tobh]

About 1m or so. I kept them pretty well trained.
First pic is flip day, last 2 pics were closer to the end and gives you a better idea of the size of the plants.View attachment 19943View attachment 19944
View attachment 19945

ah yeah, that's right. you were responsible unlike me lol that grow of yours was the cats elbows man. fuckin killed it.

 

[tobh]

looking at where things are now, it's gonna be in a couple weeks i'm doing the strip again lol. should've named the thread tobh's candy shop of horrors er, whores. whichever

 

[tobh]

About 1m or so. I kept them pretty well trained.
First pic is flip day, last 2 pics were closer to the end and gives you a better idea of the size of the plants.View attachment 19943View attachment 19944
View attachment 19945

looking close at the first pic, you just stabbed the irrigation hose into the 3" delta, yeah? or how were you mounting those?

 

[Rootsruler]

looking at where things are now, it's gonna be in a couple weeks i'm doing the strip again lol. should've named the thread tobh's candy shop of horrors er, whores. whichever

Pray tell young man. What is this strip that you speak of?