What causes cupping like this?

[Kopper1013]

Thanks y’all! I checked on them tonight and since the watering yesterday some of the cupping has gotten better so it was to much wind and not enough water…. I’ll keep an eye on it and update in a few days

 

[Kopper1013]

These are the girls as of yesterday morning
Look better but obviously still cupping.
Haven’t been able to see any mites yet but my loop may not be strong enough either…don’t wanna up pot till I know if I have to just toss them but they’re getting big….
Any other way to tell?

 

[steamroller]

Most find them easiest to spot under high magnification at the stem at base of leaves I believe.

 

[steamroller]

Extra info on RM;

Stop and Kill Russet Mites on your Cannabis Plants!

Learn safe ways to get rid of russet mites on cannabis plants. The mites are so small they can travel by the wind or on clothing even on clones and infest

sensigarden.com

https://webdoc.agsci.colostate.edu/hempinsects/PDFs/Hemp%20Russet%20Mite%20Revision%20December%202018.pdf

 

[Kopper1013]

Update y’all:

So it’s decision time! Kill’em or go for it and up pot them.
The girls are getting rather large and I like to get them bagged and under SCROG if they’re worth continuing.
They’re showing some burns on the lower leaves but I think that’s nutrients as I’ve been feeding every watering instead of every other
I lowered temps a couple degrees and humidity some just to see how the would react, they seem to be happy but there’s still the chipping I’m worried about…. I’m going to post this in my other thread to get as many options as possible before I make a bad call one way or another…. Thanks y’all

 

[Ikilledit]

@Kopper1013 have you actually seen a mite yet? Call me mildly retard as well but otherwise I don’t see a problem with those plants that can’t be fixed.

 

[Kopper1013]

I check them every day with a 60x loop, I’ve pulled stems, leaves, bent stuff over looked every but no I haven’t seen a mite yet but also haven’t cured the issue so…..

 

[Buzzking]

I check them every day with a 60x loop, I’ve pulled stems, leaves, bent stuff over looked every but no I haven’t seen a mite yet but also haven’t cured the issue so…..

I’m by no means an expert on mites but I did have a grow that had them a year or so ago. I’m not sure what level of magnification you need to see them but I bought a digital microscope on Amazon for about $40 that would Bluetooth to my phone. The little bastards are impossible to see with the naked eye but once under scope it was obvious. Here is a photo of what the plant looked like, it was about 3-4 weeks into flower, and a video of the mites under the microscope
View attachment 2023-03-01-19-58-41.mp4

 

[smoke]

I check them every day with a 60x loop, I’ve pulled stems, leaves, bent stuff over looked every but no I haven’t seen a mite yet but also haven’t cured the issue so…..

Feed is too hot?

 

[Buzzking]

Here’s the microscope I bought….

Amazon.com

 

[Ikilledit]

I check them every day with a 60x loop, I’ve pulled stems, leaves, bent stuff over looked every but no I haven’t seen a mite yet but also haven’t cured the issue so…..

Ok here’s what I would do. First off I’d let the plant dry out a bit. So if I watered say every 2 days I’d go 3. Then once I know she’s ready for water and feed I’d feed her. But I would mix all my nutrients and water in a container. I have a 2 liter container with ml on one side. Then I would top feed for at least a few weeks. Stop the drowning method. That watering method doesn’t look good. For one you’re almost submerging the plant. Forcing all the oxygen out of the soil. So when you set the pot aside to run off it’s not pulling oxygen back into the soil. When you top water. The water creates a small suction as it is pulled through the soil. And oxygen follows. So you could be smothering the roots out. Then when the plant starts drying out and trying to recoup it’s submerged again. The plant is a little on the green side. I’d back off the Nutrients a tab also. Dark twisting curling crumpled leaves can be a sign of too much nitrogen. Affects new growth as well. I’ve dealt with it. I had a serious nitrogen toxicity.

 

[Stoneyluv]

that sounds like good advice to me^^^^

i would also try to slide a container off and have a look ay her roots. if things look okay then continue on with above^^ . if you can see a bunch of roots and they're the shape of the container i would upcan and then follow Ililledit's advice.

 

[Ikilledit]

Feed is too hot?

This also. Your submerging the plant in your Nutrients plus all the would be run off is mixing in as well. Making your whole mix to hot.

 

[Ikilledit]

that sounds like good advice to me^^^^

i would also try to slide a container off and have a look ay her roots. if things look okay then continue on with above^^ . if you can see a bunch of roots and they're the shape of the container i would upcan and then follow Ililledit's advice.

And if you up size your pot. Be sure to free up the root ball. Loosen up all the compacted soil from the roots. When I go to my final pot. I do it on feeding day. I feed right at lights on on an hour later. I let the plant sit for a few hours. Then I get my bigger pot ready with semi moist soil. I know the soil is well watered in the plant I’m moving. So I pop the plant out. Take my fingers and gently work the roots free from the soil. I try to get at least 80% of the old soil out. I let the wet soil fall into the new pot. Then I fan the roots out and cover with soil. Give it a light water on the stalk. Never had a plant go in shock doing this method.

 

[Mr.GreenthumbOG]

Some tough symptoms there, I was chasing my tail last year with similar looking plants and the russet mites ended the run for me.
Damage was more severe in my room tho, and I’m not saying that’s what you have, but twisting. And cupping at the top of the plant like that is what I noticed. Wettable Sulphur does knock them back, but to stop the cycle was impossible for me even with repeat applications.

 

[Ikilledit]

@Mr.GreenthumbOG never had RM but I did have spider mites. A buddy gave me some clones of Cherry gar-see-ya, Planet of the grapes and a LSD. All had mites. I fought those things the whole grow.

 

[Kopper1013]

Thank you all!!!

I’ll change up my watering and feeding for the week and see how they adjust before killing them or buying a microscope (though that could definitely come in handy)
I looked up nitrogen toxicity in cannabis and I definitely have a lot of those symptoms as well (thanks for that information) so it’s most likely either to much N or RM let’s hope for the N.
I’ve definitely been feeding these girls full strength feeds from early on in life (thought being, direction said “feed twice a week and water in between” enter dumb thought “but if you only need to water twice a week those should be feeds“ Instead of water, feed, water, feed no matter the day spacing or how many times a week you need to do it.
Fingers crossed I’m just a dumbass
Will post back later this week with an update after a few rounds of just water.

Thanks again!!

 

[Ikilledit]

Thank you all!!!

I’ll change up my watering and feeding for the week and see how they adjust before killing them or buying a microscope (though that could definitely come in handy)
I looked up nitrogen toxicity in cannabis and I definitely have a lot of those symptoms as well (thanks for that information) so it’s most likely either to much N or RM let’s hope for the N.
I’ve definitely been feeding these girls full strength feeds from early on in life (thought being, direction said “feed twice a week and water in between” enter dumb thought “but if you only need to water twice a week those should be feeds“ Instead of water, feed, water, feed no matter the day spacing or how many times a week you need to do it.
Fingers crossed I’m just a dumbass
Will post back later this week with an update after a few rounds of just water.

Thanks again!!

Your good man. Everyone has issues at some point in growth. I have a iPhone 14 pro max and I get 15x magnification. If you have a good phone. A good pic can tell the story. I have a 60x loupe and it’s plenty for me. On the watering/ feeding. I feed every water. Some times Nitrogen gets over used. Nitrogen in the soil, Nitrogen from worm casting and the Nutrients themselves. All that builds up in the soil. That’s why it’s good to too water and flush out some of that build up and waste. So let the ladies dry out. Mix your Nutrients 3/4 or 1/2 strength. Top water with half your feed wait 10/15 minutes pour in the other half. You may have to judge how much run off you get with the first half to see how much of the second half you actually need. Then you’ll know from that point on. If you water 2 liters and get say 1/2 cup or even 1 cups that’s a good run off.

 

[Ikilledit]

This plant for instance has taco leaves. Turning tips. But it’s not enough for me to worry because 99% of the plant is doing well.

Something else to consider is strain. Some plants like heavy feed and lots of moisture some don’t. Knowing your strain will help take some of the burden of mistakes off your hands.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I dont know who @Ikilledit is, but he's coming in hot with advice and witty humor and I love it.

 

[ZombieRider]

Thank you all!!!

I’ll change up my watering and feeding for the week and see how they adjust before killing them or buying a microscope (though that could definitely come in handy)
I looked up nitrogen toxicity in cannabis and I definitely have a lot of those symptoms as well (thanks for that information) so it’s most likely either to much N or RM let’s hope for the N.
I’ve definitely been feeding these girls full strength feeds from early on in life (thought being, direction said “feed twice a week and water in between” enter dumb thought “but if you only need to water twice a week those should be feeds“ Instead of water, feed, water, feed no matter the day spacing or how many times a week you need to do it.
Fingers crossed I’m just a dumbass
Will post back later this week with an update after a few rounds of just water.

Thanks again!!

Out of curiosity: why are you running in soil? If your down with multiple waterings a day, you should just run drain to waste in coco or rockwool. No more worries about under or overwatering, just water till runoff a few times a day...done . Also, i have been using some beneficial insects to prevent any mite infestation in my grow, seems to work pretty great. No sprays, just some green lacewing larvae, californicus and cucumeris mites. I had a similar, albeit milder, symptom on one of my phenos. I think its a combo of some genetic weakness towards something (like wind) and maybe some pest pressure.

 

[ZombieRider]

Here is the similar looking cupping i have with one of my pheno's. Pretty sure its environmentally caused, i have fairly strong wind from my fans even at their lowest setting so i figure this is whats causing it. None of my other plants have the symptom so thats why im not suspecting bugs...BUT im still rockin preventative levels of beneficial insects...just iin case.

 

[Kopper1013]

Out of curiosity: why are you running in soil? If your down with multiple waterings a day, you should just run drain to waste in coco or rockwool. No more worries about under or overwatering, just water till runoff a few times a day...done . Also, i have been using some beneficial insects to prevent any mite infestation in my grow, seems to work pretty great. No sprays, just some green lacewing larvae, californicus and cucumeris mites. I had a similar, albeit milder, symptom on one of my phenos. I think its a combo of some genetic weakness towards something (like wind) and maybe some pest pressure.

I’m not necessarily down with multiple waterings lol they’re just big for the containers and with the fans and heater running they dry out fast, I’m assuming when I up pot I’ll get back to once or twice a week waterings.
This is my first indoor grow so trying to figure out multiple things at once has already been a challenge….
I’ve looked into the insect thing, have just been hesitant to make any moves in any particular direction without a:seeing the mites or b:running process of elimination to narrow it down to mites (not that it would hurt to add them anyways)

 

[ZombieRider]

I’m not necessarily down with multiple waterings lol they’re just big for the containers and with the fans and heater running they dry out fast, I’m assuming when I up pot I’ll get back to once or twice a week waterings.
This is my first indoor grow so trying to figure out multiple things at once has already been a challenge….
I’ve looked into the insect thing, have just been hesitant to make any moves in any particular direction without a:seeing the mites or b:running process of elimination to narrow it down to mites (not that it would hurt to add them anyways)

Word! And imo can't hurt to put in some beneficial bugs like californicus mites and some green lacewing larvae.

 

[Moshmen]

Ok here’s what I would do. First off I’d let the plant dry out a bit. So if I watered say every 2 days I’d go 3. Then once I know she’s ready for water and feed I’d feed her. But I would mix all my nutrients and water in a container. I have a 2 liter container with ml on one side. Then I would top feed for at least a few weeks. Stop the drowning method. That watering method doesn’t look good. For one you’re almost submerging the plant. Forcing all the oxygen out of the soil. So when you set the pot aside to run off it’s not pulling oxygen back into the soil. When you top water. The water creates a small suction as it is pulled through the soil. And oxygen follows. So you could be smothering the roots out. Then when the plant starts drying out and trying to recoup it’s submerged again. The plant is a little on the green side. I’d back off the Nutrients a tab also. Dark twisting curling crumpled leaves can be a sign of too much nitrogen. Affects new growth as well. I’ve dealt with it. I had a serious nitrogen toxicity.

Good advice except I believe he’s in coco which we never want to dry out

 

[Moshmen]

Thank you all!!!

I’ll change up my watering and feeding for the week and see how they adjust before killing them or buying a microscope (though that could definitely come in handy)
I looked up nitrogen toxicity in cannabis and I definitely have a lot of those symptoms as well (thanks for that information) so it’s most likely either to much N or RM let’s hope for the N.
I’ve definitely been feeding these girls full strength feeds from early on in life (thought being, direction said “feed twice a week and water in between” enter dumb thought “but if you only need to water twice a week those should be feeds“ Instead of water, feed, water, feed no matter the day spacing or how many times a week you need to do it.
Fingers crossed I’m just a dumbass
Will post back later this week with an update after a few rounds of just water.

Thanks again!!

Never a dumbass just learnin ! Those twisted dark green leaves are surely from N

 

[Ikilledit]

Good advice except I believe he’s in coco which we never want to dry out

I see your point. I’m not stating to let it get bone dry. I’d still leave a good level of moisture.

Good advice except I believe he’s in coco which we never want to dry out

Exactly. Let it dry out but not bone dry.

 

[Moshmen]

Good advice except I believe he’s in coco which we never want to dry out

My bad just looked he’s in soil

 

[stonemason]

I’m not necessarily down with multiple waterings lol they’re just big for the containers and with the fans and heater running they dry out fast, I’m assuming when I up pot I’ll get back to once or twice a week waterings.
This is my first indoor grow so trying to figure out multiple things at once has already been a challenge….
I’ve looked into the insect thing, have just been hesitant to make any moves in any particular direction without a:seeing the mites or b:running process of elimination to narrow it down to mites (not that it would hurt to add them anyways)

I have had good luck with mi beneficials. If your in the area.im not sure what the winter weather does for shipping bugs.ive bought there biodiversity packs a couple times the bugs are always alive and healthy

 

[ZombieRider]

I have had good luck with mi beneficials. If your in the area.im not sure what the winter weather does for shipping bugs.ive bought there biodiversity packs a couple times the bugs are always alive and healthy View attachment 36685

I hit them up and MIBeneficials are some cool people. Only reason I didn't order from them is because the shipping was too much for VA.