Winter Run

[Observer]

TLDR: We grow in the garage.

House built in the 50's with a detached 2 car garage with 0 insulation. Have a portable AC unit blowing behind all three of the tents where their intake vents are, but that's about the extent of the 'cooling' going on in there. It's summer in California so temps are getting up there for us, but we're lucky enough to be in the Bay Area so temps are pretty mild compared to pretty much everywhere else.

That all being said, the reality is that lights come on at 4PM and go off at 4AM. So they're on during the night for the majority of the time. This is to help provide heat during the colder times and it's usually cooler at night during the hot days. The AC can keep the temps in the tents a couple degrees sub ambient with lights off and a bit above ambient with the lights on during the day (like 4-7PM). Once the sun goes down temps usually drop pretty rapidly, and by 8PM the tents are sitting around 84F. By 10PM the tents are 75F and that's where they usually sit from 10PM to 4AM. They might get a bit cooler as the night goes on but once the AC kicks off they'll climb back up a bit.

Just ordered a 10x10 to replace the three 5x5's we run now. Eventually we want to get an AC Terraform 7 and have that as the AC source for the tent. The AC unit we are running now doesn't really allow for ducting and would have to be placed inside the tent to really do it's job. With a 5x5 that just wasn't doable. With the 10x10 it should be and when ever AC Infinity decides to drop the Terraform again we'll have even more room.

As far as temps go I would say you're perfect. If we could dial in our CO2 and feed I think our temps would be a bit more manageable and make things better. But without those, we are loosing some. Here's a picture from our last run with the Trop Cherry. This was in the Fall of 23. Temps were in the mid 70's. This picture is from 39F.
View attachment 68126

Not to try and shit on our own grow, but the difference is pretty obvious to us. Thinking the additional heat is playing into it a bit, but we'll find out in a few months. Going to be running the TC exclusively in our 10x10.

Have you considered dropping the lights closer and reducing power to help balance heat?

You'd lose some coverage area perhaps but anything for health of the crop is worth, imo.

 

[Observer]

But nice, living the dream.

 

[Observer]

RH we usually try to end at 55 or so. I remember reading Aqua or Moe saying that the enemy of mold isn't RH but air flow. I'd like to think we have pretty decent air flow in the tents. We used to push it down to like 45 at the end of flower and always ended up frying the plants. Gotta level up our growing game before we can get down to that RH lol.

Being able to push the RH down towards the end can bring out more potential.

Used as a stressor.

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

For the grow…we on day 50F for the Dante’s and 45F for the Trop Cherry. Girls are looking amazing. It’s been cooler too so that’s been helping. Both are starting to bulk up substantially.

TC: Color is obviously coming through at this point. Frost is starting to pack on too. Resin rails are looking fantastic. Getting some slight taccoing on the upper fan leaves. Last few times we've ran it that usually meant we were pushing them just right. Judging from how much more explosive the pistol growth is getting we think we've got them pretty dialed in right now. 850PPFD, 60RH, 1050PPM, 85F.


Dante's Inferno: Welcome to the Jungle we got some funny looking things. Yeah there's some shenanigans going on in here. But there are some monsters lurking among the larf.


Temp: 85F
RH: 60%
CO2: 0
PPFD: 850
PPM: 1050

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

Have you considered dropping the lights closer and reducing power to help balance heat?

You'd lose some coverage area perhaps but anything for health of the crop is worth, imo.

Yeah we did have them closer, but as you stated we loose some coverage area. Likely should have sacrificed in that way, but we didn't. I wanna say the mid day heat, with the lights off is probably worse than the hour or two they endure with the temps in the high 80's to low 90's with the lights on.

Moving forward we are going to be taking breaks during August/September and January/February since they're the hottest/coldest months.

As far as the stressors go, was told to lighten up on the stressors as we get into late flower, usually less drybacks, lower PPFD etc. Wouldn't dropping RH go against that?

Also with as hot as it is, I'm afraid of the terps getting toasted with the low RH/High heat combo. Least with the higher RH you can really smell the terps.

 

[Observer]

Yeah we did have them closer, but as you stated we loose some coverage area. Likely should have sacrificed in that way, but we didn't. I wanna say the mid day heat, with the lights off is probably worse than the hour or two they endure with the temps in the high 80's to low 90's with the lights on.

Moving forward we are going to be taking breaks during August/September and January/February since they're the hottest/coldest months.

As far as the stressors go, was told to lighten up on the stressors as we get into late flower, usually less drybacks, lower PPFD etc. Wouldn't dropping RH go against that?

Also with as hot as it is, I'm afraid of the terps getting toasted with the low RH/High heat combo. Least with the higher RH you can really smell the terps.

working on a good reply for ya

 

[Observer]

Yeah we did have them closer, but as you stated we loose some coverage area.

Likely should have sacrificed in that way, but we didn't.

yea for health of the crop, id rather have that than coverage.

I wanna say the mid day heat, with the lights off is probably worse than the hour or two they endure with the temps in the high 80's to low 90's with the lights on.

Moving forward we are going to be taking breaks during August/September and January/February since they're the hottest/coldest months.

As far as the stressors go, was told to lighten up on the stressors as we get into late flower, usually less drybacks, lower PPFD etc. Wouldn't dropping RH go against that?

well, what are we defining as late flower, on a 9 week cultivar , weeks 6-8 would be late? you wanna "smoothly sail" through and then that last week is when you start bringing in the stressors, after the buds are formed and starting to swell, and then thats when you can drop RH and TEMP

higher temps can bring out genetic expression like the "airy" buds, they form that way as another defense mechanism to deter mold, and also stresses them to possibly stack calyxes and start foxtailing, the exact scientific mechanism for why this happens i can not say yet.

Also with as hot as it is, I'm afraid of the terps getting toasted with the low RH/High heat combo. Least with the higher RH you can really smell the terps.

indeed, any temp above 68F is when certain/terpenes can start "evaporating" off the plants.

the lower RH makes the plants "tigthen" to try and preserve water loss, the lower temps help keep those sweet terps "locked in"

and at the same time, it acts as a "stressor" the plants respond by synthesizing more cannabinoids as its defense mechanism.

when ever you see commercial grows and they have fan leafs that are tacoing but are FROSTED , thats in part, why, the cause and effect.


approaching flower, week 1, defol and lollipop for penetration and redirecting energy to focus on buds and not vegetative growth.
week 2-3 is recovery and budset and then removing any excess vegetation again around day 21 or so, to again, focus on the budsites.

week 4, flower development continues, 0 stressors.

week 5-6 "bulking" phase, and i could bring up vegetative and generative growth but this gets more advanced and complicated.

sorry ran out of time on this post

 

[Observer]

was trying to see what youre nutrient inputs were, "organics" or salts?

 

[Observer]

 

[Observer]

ahha!


the higher heat increases cellular activity, the metabolism, therefore calyxes can stack.

Growth Rate Disruption: High temperatures can cause the plant to grow more quickly than usual.
This rapid growth can lead to abnormal bud formation.

so you gotta slow the metabolism down so the cells dont rapidly grow, whereas you want fat buds to properly form


Foxtailing is characterized by the elongated, spiky appearance of buds, which are often a result of the plant's attempt to deal with stress and produce new growth in an erratic fashion.

 

[Observer]

ok sorry im unloading research now


you got me back in it

1. Heat Stress and Enzyme Activity​

Temperature Effects on Enzymes:

• Enzyme Denaturation: High temperatures can cause denaturation of enzymes involved in various metabolic processes. Enzymes such as those responsible for protein synthesis, hormone regulation, and secondary metabolite production may lose their functional shape and efficiency, disrupting normal plant growth and development.
• Reduced Enzyme Activity: Elevated temperatures can reduce the activity of critical enzymes like ribulose-1,5-bisphosphate carboxylase/oxygenase (RuBisCO), which is essential for photosynthesis. This can lead to reduced photosynthetic rates and energy production, affecting overall plant health and growth.

2. Hormonal Imbalances​

Auxins and Gibberellins:

• Auxins: These are plant hormones that regulate cell elongation and differentiation. Heat stress can alter auxin distribution and signaling, leading to abnormal growth patterns and foxtailing.
• Gibberellins: These hormones promote cell elongation and bud development. High temperatures can cause an imbalance in gibberellin levels, leading to excessive elongation of the internodes and abnormal bud formation.

3. Photosynthesis and Respiratory Changes​

Photosynthetic Efficiency:

• Photosynthetic Rate: High temperatures can decrease the efficiency of the photosynthetic process, reducing the production of carbohydrates and other essential compounds needed for healthy bud development.
• Respiration Increase: Heat stress can increase the rate of respiration, leading to higher energy consumption and reduced availability of energy for growth and development.

4. Heat Shock Proteins​

Role of Heat Shock Proteins:

• Protein Production: In response to high temperatures, plants produce heat shock proteins (HSPs) to protect other proteins from damage. HSPs assist in refolding denatured proteins and help maintain cellular function under stress.
• Stress Response: The production of HSPs is a protective response that can alter normal growth patterns and development, potentially leading to abnormal bud and calyx formation.

5. Thermal Regulation and Plant Structure​

Stomatal Closure:

• Water Loss: High temperatures can cause the stomata (tiny openings on leaves) to close to reduce water loss. This can limit gas exchange, affecting CO2 availability and photosynthesis.
• Heat Stress Impact: Stomatal closure can exacerbate heat stress by limiting the plant’s ability to cool itself and regulate internal temperatures.

Cellular Structure:

• Cell Membrane Integrity: Heat stress can disrupt the integrity of cellular membranes, causing leakage of cellular contents and affecting cell function. This can lead to abnormal growth patterns and structural changes in buds and flowers.

6. Reproductive Response​

Calyx Stacking:

• Stress Response: In response to heat stress, plants may increase the density of calyxes as a defensive mechanism. This can be a way to protect the reproductive parts and ensure successful pollination despite adverse conditions.
• Altered Flowering Patterns: High temperatures can alter the flowering cycle, leading to changes in the development and arrangement of calyxes.

7. Gene Expression​

Heat Stress Genes:

• Heat-Responsive Genes: High temperatures trigger the expression of heat-responsive genes that are involved in stress responses and adaptation. These genes can influence various physiological processes, including growth, development, and reproductive structures.
• Transcription Factors: Heat stress can affect the activity of transcription factors that regulate gene expression, leading to changes in growth patterns and reproductive structures.

 

[Observer]

theres a lot of

if it does this, you can do this

if this happens you can try this

if you cant do this one thing, you can do this other thing though.


lol

 

[Observer]

Yeah and with the eventual move to rockwool slabs. That's likely even more into the future.

Since we move the trop cherry really well it likely be trial and error with the drip system on a smaller scale outside of the main grow.

im working on something that may even perform better than rockwool, but i gotta experiment with it first, after getting it printed.

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

was trying to see what youre nutrient inputs were, "organics" or salts?

Running Jacks /w PowerSi and Purpinator. PowerSi is out since we are into week 6.

 

[Observer]

Running Jacks /w PowerSi and Purpinator. PowerSi is out since we are into week 6.

ahh right, now i remember.

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

Alright almost another week in the books. Trop Cherry are at 48F and the Dante's are at 53F. It's been cooler which has been a blessing. Tents are only getting into the mid 80's now. TCs are just packing on weight. Dante's terps are coming in so strong its creeping out of the garage. Smells like grape soda, like a lot.

Trop Cherry: With three weeks to go, things are looking good. The lighter tent is also the hotter tent in the back of the Garage. They were also the CO2 tent so they've always been kinda different. Both tents are chugging along nicely and packing on a lot of weight.

View attachment IMG_8624.mov

Dante's Inferno: It's a hot mess, but god damn do they smell amazing. Our neighbor asked if we started making grape soda it smelled so strongly. Can't complain about that.


Overall things are going good, temps are down and the plants have been thriving.

Temp: 82F
RH%: 57
PPM: 1020
PPFD: 850

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

Another week in the books.

Dante’s at 59F and TC at 54F and couldn't be happier. It's been interesting watching these two different tents of TC and how different they are. The Dante's inferno has also been fun to say the least. Excited to do a proper run of it in the future. There are a few monsters lurking in that tent, but a lot of it is going to end up being larf.

Trop Cherry: Lawdy these girls are getting fat. Difference in the two tents is wild. The CO2 tent, lighter one, used to be far ahead, but since cutting out the CO2 it's fallen behind. We think the with it being like 4 degrees hotter in the CO2 tent caused some issues, but they're still looking great.


Dante's Inferno: It's over grown, a mess, but there are some monsters lurking in the weeds. Managed to capture a few shots. Filling out nicely and the terps are crazy.


Temp: 80F
RH%: 57
PPM: 1020
PPFD: 850

 

[brettdawg]

Looking good stacking nicrly. What co2 you using tanks or bags that you can hang.

 

[TomH]

Gorgeous ladies you hang with there!

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

Looking good stacking nicrly. What co2 you using tanks or bags that you can hang.

CO2 tanks, 25lb ones. Tank usually lasted 2-3 weeks @1200PPM. Flow was .5 cubic feet/min with it on.

When we were running it, that tent was packing on weight fast. Problem was our feed schedule was too light. They started to get light and somewhat yellow. We run the three tents and use the same res for all three and kept the EC lower. Looking back we could have had a higher EC in the res and watered down what we were using to water. Hindsight 20/20 sometimes.

That tent is also the hottest of the three since it sits the furthest back in the garage. With the CO2 on it was more manageable. Without it, they've suffered a bit. They seem to perform the best with low-to-mid 80's with lights on and mid-to-high 60's with lights off.

Next run we will mess with it some more, we are leaving a lot on the table, it seems, without the CO2, and that's pretty wild to think about.

 

[brettdawg]

Interesting.
so the tent with co2 wud more than likely yield the most?. Night have to try co2 i used a bag before didnt thonk it wad any good tbf. Wud have to use tank like urs
Yh hard aint it when all feeding out same rez.

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

Can't say for certain if it would yield more, since we haven't done it, but considering the buds were bigger earlier on, my guess is yes.

We haven't tried the CO2 bags, but I don't think they get the PPM's up high enough or consistent enough to work. That or you'd have to fill the whole grow space up with those bags. We'd have to run a cost analysis on it. Used to get CO2 for practically free, but times have changed. We move at 1K/lb for the TC, adds another $250/run per tent with the CO2. Break even would be another 1/4lb and profit above that but don't know how much more yield.

Bruce Bungbee has said CO2 can give up to 20% more on a yield. The 'up to' part is what has us worried lol.

 

[Observer]

Interesting.
so the tent with co2 wud more than likely yield the most?. Night have to try co2 i used a bag before didnt thonk it wad any good tbf. Wud have to use tank like urs
Yh hard aint it when all feeding out same rez.

Better off just getting a tank a regulator and a CO2 monitor.

I've not personally used the bags but I think I've seen measurements with them in a tent and not sufficient, or consistent.

 

[Observer]

Interesting.
so the tent with co2 wud more than likely yield the most?. Night have to try co2 i used a bag before didnt thonk it wad any good tbf. Wud have to use tank like urs
Yh hard aint it when all feeding out same rez.

Increased CO2 levels can increase a plants metabolism/photosynthetic rate up to 30% (NetP)

But every other variable needs to be within balance of each other as well to really utilize elevated CO2 levels, efficiently.


pH, E.C, Temperature, Humidity, PPFD, water temperature, leaf surface temperature, optimized spectrums, WC%, DO/root zone oxygenation/O2, wind speed....

Might be missing a few, but that's gotta be most of em.

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

The lean is setting in and its getting closer to chop day. 61F for the TC and 66F for the Dante's. It's starting to heat up again in the bay, but only for a few days we hope. Still seeing tons of white pistils in most of the plants.

Trop Cherry: Yeah they're flopping all over the place. Color is coming in, terps are strong and can't wait to get these girls down.



Dante's Inferno: Yeah it's really a fucking mess now. Tons of fat nugs around. Kinda doubted she'd pack on the weight, but the flop tells the story.

Temp: 85F
RH%: 57
PPM: 800
PPFD: 800