Grump clones the Kitchen Sink

[GrumpAzz]

Still looking the same. I'm gonna take that as a good sign. The one in the back, it was the random stem and the only one without 4 nodes, looks a little wilty. I'm not gonna fret.


A friend of mine who works in a commercial OP in Michigan says to start tapering down the humidity after 4 or 5 days... what say ya'll?

 

[Zen_seeker]

Still looking the same. I'm gonna take that as a good sign. The one in the back, it was the random stem and the only one without 4 nodes, looks a little wilty. I'm not gonna fret.
View attachment 110322

A friend of mine who works in a commercial OP in Michigan says to start tapering down the humidity after 4 or 5 days... what say ya'll?

I sometimes don’t have a choice but I try to keep between 60% and 80% until I see roots and ready to transplant. .02$

 

[GrumpAzz]

I sometimes don’t have a choice but I try to keep between 60% and 80% until I see roots and ready to transplant. .02$

I'm having to refill my 4ish gallon humidifier twice a day.. it's putting in work.

4-5 days coincides with the plant starting to grow roots, eh? That all checks out then. He's saying day 5 at least and you're saying when they start to grow their roots.

So around day 4 or 5 I'll drop the humidity to 80% and maybe 5% every two days or so. Thanks Zen

 

[Zen_seeker]

I'm having to refill my 4ish gallon humidifier twice a day.. it's putting in work.

4-5 days coincides with the plant starting to grow roots, eh? That all checks out then. He's saying day 5 at least and you're saying when they start to grow their roots.

So around day 4 or 5 I'll drop the humidity to 80% and maybe 5% every two days or so. Thanks Zen

It’s why I use clear cups in red cups. I want to see the roots before I move on. Jiffy pucks are much smaller so you’ll usually see them poke out the sides but sometimes just the bottom. I try to leave them alone until day 7.

Usually nothing I can see in a red/clear cup at day 7. But by day 14 it’s usually got some. If still nothing I see if it needs watering and then wait until day 21. If no roots by then something is wrong or it’s a dead stick.

Sometimes the clone/cutting looks great after day 14, sometimes it’s looking pretty sad. But by day 21 it either kicked in and on its way or ready to toss. Just watch the tops for signs of growth and ignore the lowest leaves.

Some remove extra leaves at the start to make it easier for the clone. You can also trim them but I don’t anymore.

 

[Observer]

Still looking the same. I'm gonna take that as a good sign. The one in the back, it was the random stem and the only one without 4 nodes, looks a little wilty. I'm not gonna fret.
View attachment 110322

A friend of mine who works in a commercial OP in Michigan says to start tapering down the humidity after 4 or 5 days... what say ya'll?

90, 85, 80, 75, 70, 65, 60

 

[GrumpAzz]

90, 85, 80, 75, 70, 65, 60

So drop 5 at a time. Daily? Every other day? Starting day 4 or 5?

 

[Stoneyluv]

when i cloned and had cuttings that were important to me and it was very dry at the time i would give them a spray of wilt pruf. not necessary at all but if you struggle to keep rh up it can help out a little.

 

[Observer]

So drop 5 at a time. Daily? Every other day? Starting day 4 or 5?

You'll see their water uptake needs between humidity levels, if the air is saturated enough to the correlation of demands on the balance of them breathing water in and out.

them on the edge of needing more water and nutrients should help promote them in the direction of developing a root system, without it being too humid and insufficient airflow where mold could develop, that's why we want to taper down, I think.

From what I've noted mostly is 3 days.

A proper cannabis clone can develop a root in 3-7 days, optimally should have some kind of root system worth transplanting after 15 days atleast, if not sooner.

Squirting water or tiny water droplets just before the stem is drying should be about optimal in a aero or dwc cloning environment.

Should be able to clone in a dome/tray/pucks within 7 days.

Environment and genetics.

If they are staying "droopy" but not "2 droopy" or getting worse, i'd think they are fine and working on their roots.

You can play around with 5/10% at a time and Observe.

A nice balance of moisture and dry, proper temps and RH for optimal cloning time, I think.

And not to forget about the IBA variable either, a hormone to help promote rooting.

 

[Observer]

when i cloned and had cuttings that were important to me and it was very dry at the time i would give them a spray of wilt pruf. not necessary at all but if you struggle to keep rh up it can help out a little.

View attachment 110407

Interesting, wonder how it works.

 

[GrumpAzz]

them on the edge of needing more water and nutrients should help promote them in the direction of developing a root system, without it being too humid and insufficient airflow where mold could develop, that's why we want to taper down, I think.

Accidently let the humidifier run out so they got a nice dry period of 45% for 4 hours...

I think they still alright though...
Day 3

 

[Bandit420]

Accidently let the humidifier run out so they got a nice dry period of 45% for 4 hours...

I think they still alright though...
Day 3
View attachment 110437

Glad you found your way brother because asking me was gonna take you down a rabbit hole of aerocloners and microbial cloning.
Once upon a time I cloned in rockwool but have been bare roots for years.
If you get into that, I can help but for this style it looks like you're in good hands.
I think for this type a dome is preferred and yeah you need light at roughly around 20 watts per square foot of CFL or floro light about 2' above the cuttings.
Your CLW could work but I'd set it to like 2-2-2 or something super low and probably not higher than 8-8-8

 

[GrumpAzz]

Your CLW could work but I'd set it to like 2-2-2 or something super low and probably not higher than 8-8-8

Mostly hit you up for the CLW info.

Their site says 39:49:99 for clones and seedlings at least 48" above. That's way too much damn light.

I've got it as low as I can take it keeping the same spectrum and it's nearly 6' above the tray. Is that too much? Would 2 full days be enough to show signs of light stress? We're in the middle of the 3rd day with those settings. Do they look fine for 3 day old clones to you?

Everything in the tray lazers 84-85 degrees and the probe 4" up says the same plus 82-86% humidity. I'm gonna use some the the advise here and start lowering the rH gradually in the next day or two, once I see the tops start to lighten up.

I've been optimistic seeing how they haven't shown much change at all. I would've expected them to turn pretty quick.

 

[steamroller]

When I last cloned I put the cups beneath their donors for shade with lights atleast 4 feet above them.
At that point my lights were still on veg so less than 50% for me.
They need proper spectrum light but not a lot of it IME.
Yours look to be doing good.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Interesting, wonder how it works.

not sure of the science behind it, but it seems to coat the outside of leaf in a plastic.. i know if i ever had a clone store i would use it all the time!!! if it looks good it must be good deal!!! but for us growers that like to read our cuttings it makes it tough because with wilt pruf they always look good.

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Grump, for what it's worth i think your light setting will be fine. i was always like Steam, i had other plants with the cuttings and used them as shade. a dome would provide a little shade. i like domes for the winter when my basement is dry, in the summer i always went without because my rh is almost 65 down there.

they look fine though, i'd continue just as you are!

 

[Bandit420]

Mostly hit you up for the CLW info.

Their site says 39:49:99 for clones and seedlings at least 48" above. That's way too much damn light.

I've got it as low as I can take it keeping the same spectrum and it's nearly 6' above the tray. Is that too much? Would 2 full days be enough to show signs of light stress? We're in the middle of the 3rd day with those settings. Do they look fine for 3 day old clones to you?

Everything in the tray lazers 84-85 degrees and the probe 4" up says the same plus 82-86% humidity. I'm gonna use some the the advise here and start lowering the rH gradually in the next day or two, once I see the tops start to lighten up.

I've been optimistic seeing how they haven't shown much change at all. I would've expected them to turn pretty quick.

Those settings may be for rooted clones but not for cloning
Cuttings usually pick themselves up off the mat by the next day but 2-3 days isn't uncommon if the cutting is young plant material.
They look fine to me so far.

not sure of the science behind it, but it seems to coat the outside of leaf in a plastic.. i know if i ever had a clone store i would use it all the time!!! if it looks good it must be good deal!!! but for us growers that like to read our cuttings it makes it tough because with wilt pruf they always look good.

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Grump, for what it's worth i think your light setting will be fine. i was always like Steam, i had other plants with the cuttings and used them as shade. a dome would provide a little shade. i like domes for the winter when my basement is dry, in the summer i always went without because my rh is almost 65 down there.

they look fine though, i'd continue just as you are!

There's another anti wilt spray, I can't remember the name, but it's a wax formula and coats the cutting in a fine layer of wax which supports the tissue when it goes limp. Probably the same type of stuff

 

[Stoneyluv]

There's another anti wilt spray, I can't remember the name, but it's a wax formula and coats the cutting in a fine layer of wax which supports the tissue when it goes limp. Probably the same type of stuff

thats exactly what the leaves feel like the next day, just like one of those wax plants.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Those settings may be for rooted clones but not for cloning

Ahh..

Is an even ratio gonna be better for healing the snip and rooting the clone?

Cuttings usually pick themselves up off the mat by the next day but 2-3 days isn't uncommon if the cutting is young plant material.
They look fine to me so far.

So they aughta perk up in a day or so? Is that what you mean by "pick themselves up off the mat"?

It's been 3 full days right before lights out tonight.

 

[Zen_seeker]

If I’m actively trying to clone in a tray I have a 100w 1’ square quantum board inches above the tray or dome or coffee can. It’s almost always at the lowest setting.

If I’m just trimming off branches when in veg I leave them in the coffee can under the canopy like Bandit. Gets the right light and humidity.

Other than the rooting hormone they only get tap water.

The lower leaves usually start to turn yellow at the tips and get droopy. But as long as the top newest growth looks good I ignore it. Check every couple of days but don’t worry about them until 14 days. Many times I don’t get the roots showing until the 14-21 day point. But then it takes off.

Unless you’re desperate to get these clones remember you’re experimenting and learning your environment. I hope it happens in a week but I wouldn’t expect it.

Once you see roots and are ready to transplant either leave them under low light or put them under the canopy of vegging plants.

You’ll be fine. Take your time. No knee jerk reactions. Hardest part for me is patience.

 

[Bandit420]

Ahh..

Is an even ratio gonna be better for healing the snip and rooting the clone?


So they aughta perk up in a day or so? Is that what you mean by "pick themselves up off the mat"?

It's been 3 full days right before lights out tonight.

I've always thrown a spectrum very close to a bloom spectrum at clones and young plants. Increased red encourages root growth and all the parameters needed for cloning are nearly identical to flowering other than intensity.

I don't follow anything set out there by CLW in regards to the spectrums. So what I do will differ from everybody else using that formula.
If I were to use your light for cloning I'd get a couple meters first...a kill-a-watt so I know it's power draw and the photone app to measure PPFD or another light meter I can rely on.
I'd set the light to 1 white, 5 blue, 5 red and check my meters. I'm looking for roughly around 25-50 watts on the power draw and a PPFD between 150 and 300 with an ideal range of 200.
Keep adjusting the red and blue equally but not taking the white past 3. Final spectrum could be something like 3-10-10 set at 20 inches above target.

Yes I'm refering to that wilt then the recovery by the phrase "picked up off the mat"
When you cut the clone off from the mom, you sever it's vascular system sending it into a hard shock. That wilt is shock. It's not from loss of water or anything other than simple shock. Spraying won't help and neither will a dome. The wax stuff can help lessen it but it's 100% natural and expected.
It will take the cutting anywhwere from minutes to days to recover from that shock and stand back upright. Main thing is keep water down in that tray so they have water to suck up as they reorganize their uptake points. If it goes dry then you get an embolism and it will kill your clones. Keep them in shallow water and change the water daily.
Once you take the cutting from the mom, making your next cuts, the 45 degree at the base and snipping off the leaves at the nodes under water, is about the best preventative from severe shock and embolisms there is out there. It's an old school trick but a great one to use which i still do when I take cuttings.

The shock though...That's soemthing where it's not about how fast they recover bvut that they do recover which your have done and that's the most importtant thing. It's probably gonna be a slow ordeal here if it took a few days to bounce back from shock so I'd take a peek around day 10 and probably by day 21 they'll be ready. Another sign of readiness will be yellowing of the lower leaves. You see that, there's usually roots showing and it's feeding thru it's new roots.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Day 4

I thought I noticed a bit of lightening up on the stems. Is that what you mentioned before @Stoneyluv, happening around day 4? Lightening of theme stems, not leaves? I assumed so and lowered the humidity to 80%. I'll drop it again in a day or two.


@Bandit420, I've got a clamp meter to read amperage, that would work for finding total wattage through some math. Finding time might be a little more difficult. Newborn takes all the extra time we have. I find myself rushing just to fill the humidifier because even that 5 minutes away feels like too much. I can get down to adjust the spectrum easy enough, though. You're thinking give it more red and less white, eh? Makes sense, especially now, calling for more root development. I'm at 4r:5w:10b right now and you say 10r:3w:10b is about right 20" up. I'm 69" up. Should I set it a bit higher intensity keeping reds and blues even?

Only other thing is I'm not changing the water daily or even checking it's pH or ppm...
It is very low in the tray and I've kept it low, only adding to it once now. Nothing but RapidStart and Orca.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Day 4

I thought I noticed a bit of lightening up on the stems. Is that what you mentioned before @Stoneyluv, happening around day 4? Lightening of theme stems, not leaves? I assumed so and lowered the humidity to 80%. I'll drop it again in a day or two.
View attachment 110600

@Bandit420, I've got a clamp meter to read amperage, that would work for finding total wattage through some math. Finding time might be a little more difficult. Newborn takes all the extra time we have. I find myself rushing just to fill the humidifier because even that 5 minutes away feels like too much. I can get down to adjust the spectrum easy enough, though. You're thinking give it more red and less white, eh? Makes sense, especially now, calling for more root development. I'm at 4r:5w:10b right now and you say 10r:3w:10b is about right 20" up. I'm 69" up. Should I set it a bit higher intensity keeping reds and blues even?

Only other thing is I'm not changing the water daily or even checking it's pH or ppm...
It is very low in the tray and I've kept it low, only adding to it once now. Nothing but RapidStart and Orca.

sometimes that newest growth will get as light as the under side of the leaves. normally lasts for a couple days and then the roots start taking in nutrients.

it's been a few days now so maybe when ya get a few minutes of free time with them you can take a spoon and carefully lift one out and take a look for roots.

 

[GrumpAzz]

it's been a few days now so maybe when ya get a few minutes of free time with them you can take a spoon and carefully lift one out and take a look for roots.

Oh you think roots could be coming out of the cube already?

I wasn't expecting to actually see roots for another week or so.

I can see down beside them well enough. I'll leave 'em alone.

 

[Bandit420]

Day 4

I thought I noticed a bit of lightening up on the stems. Is that what you mentioned before @Stoneyluv, happening around day 4? Lightening of theme stems, not leaves? I assumed so and lowered the humidity to 80%. I'll drop it again in a day or two.
View attachment 110600

@Bandit420, I've got a clamp meter to read amperage, that would work for finding total wattage through some math. Finding time might be a little more difficult. Newborn takes all the extra time we have. I find myself rushing just to fill the humidifier because even that 5 minutes away feels like too much. I can get down to adjust the spectrum easy enough, though. You're thinking give it more red and less white, eh? Makes sense, especially now, calling for more root development. I'm at 4r:5w:10b right now and you say 10r:3w:10b is about right 20" up. I'm 69" up. Should I set it a bit higher intensity keeping reds and blues even?

Only other thing is I'm not changing the water daily or even checking it's pH or ppm...
It is very low in the tray and I've kept it low, only adding to it once now. Nothing but RapidStart and Orca.

Best I can tell you is I don't know Buddy.
I've never cloned with that light so I'm guessing just as much as you without having a meter or your light here to see what I'm working with.
Flying blind? 3 white, 10 red, 10 blue at 36" above target and hope for the best.
Can't change water daily then it's simply when you can and hope for the best.
The reason for water changes is so it don't go stagnant and poison your clones with bacteria or a pathogen which are the two biggest concerns when cloning other than an embolism.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Best I can tell you is I don't know Buddy.

I've never cloned with that light so I'm guessing just as much as you without having a meter or your light here to see what I'm working with.
Flying blind? 3 white, 10 red, 10 blue at 36" above target and hope for the best.

I gave it those settings last night but I'm a lot higher than that. They don't look much different today aside from Some bowling on the lowest leaves.

Can't change water daily then it's simply when you can and hope for the best.
The reason for water changes is so it don't go stagnant and poison your clones with bacteria or a pathogen which are the two biggest concerns when cloning other than an embolism.

Word. Yeah it's not that I can't, just that I haven't been. I changed it out this morning. RapidStart, Orca and a little CalMag this time. The water looked pretty clean considering it hasn't had a full change yet.

-------

Should I go ahead and trim the browning/dead leaves?

 

[Observer]

Those "pucks" look a bit too saturated from my perspective

And did you use the spray, looks like it "burned" em?

 

[Observer]

That brown area on the stem, maybe thats just a stain from the additives or puck?

and this looks 2 moist imo

Is that a rapid rooter?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Those "pucks" look a bit too saturated from my perspective

Word. Just the very bottom maybe 1/8" touches the water.

And did you use the spray, looks like it "burned" em?

No spray.

That brown area on the stem, maybe thats just a stain from the additives or puck?

Yeah that's where I dipped them in the CloneX
It's purple.

and this looks 2 moist imo
Is that a rapid rooter?

Yeah. GH Rapid Rooters. Fully squeezed out before anything was added with the bottom barely in the water.

 

[Observer]

85 might be a little too warm for optimal cloning though I'm not 100%

Might want around 0.4-0.8 vpd for clone

 

[steamroller]

I would only remove completely browned /burnt leaves.
Let them go until then.

 

[GrumpAzz]

85 might be a little too warm for optimal cloning though I'm not 100%

Might want around 0.4-0.8 vpd for clone

It's bouncing between .7 and 1.0 so I dropped it a couple degrees.

I would only remove completely browned /burnt leaves.
Let them go until then.

Nice. I might get to that before lights out.