Cannabis high fertigation coco by Aqua Man

[Observer]

try one plant 100% vermiculite, do less amount of water at time/ per time

root mass in perlite sucks dick, i can show this from 100% perlite plants.

ofc that varies off of how yorue watering but still.

 

[Max]

No I’ll feed it the same amount as the others to see if it has more aeration as you mentioned.fed once a day.mixed in coco..

 

[Observer]

but if it has a different "performance" metric you wont be seeing it or utilizing it correctly, just further proving a Bias.

but i see ur point

it could be like saying oh ill treat this soil like its hydro.

 

[Max]

Yeah ..let’s see how much ratio coco/vermiculite aqua mentions to use…

 

[Observer]

it seems like coco high freq fert on steroids

ill test it further

it was literally just a transplant then i observed how well the tiny vermiculite particles are being held together and how its acting like a sponge.

 

[Observer]

but id love to hear aqua s thoughts on this too of course.

im just building off what theyve taught me.

 

[Observer]

If you use less water the media has more "air" correct?

Therefore it has more oxygen to the roots

If theirs less water the plant has less to uptake, therefore the plant also quickly uptakes that little amount of water, therefore, you need to water again sooner, therefore a "better" "high-frequency" fertigation Media.

 

[Observer]

boom

 

[Observer]

now i wait for aqua to come tell me why im wrong

lol

 

[Observer]

oxygenate a solution with o2 concentrator in a fridge or fuckin o2 tanks and blow ur self up

theres u a highly-oxygenated-high-freq-fert-media without using aeroponics

bam

 

[SSgrower]

""
Here are some additional reasons why vermiculite allows for more root mass than coco or perlite or peat:

• Vermiculite has a larger pore size than coco or perlite or peat. This means that there is more space for air and water to circulate around the roots.
• Vermiculite is more inert than coco or perlite or peat. This means that it does not contain any nutrients that can compete with the roots for food.
• Vermiculite is more pH neutral than coco or perlite or peat. This means that it does not affect the pH of the water or nutrients that the roots are exposed to.

Overall, vermiculite is a good choice for media if you want to encourage root growth. It is aerated, lightweight, inert, and pH neutral. These properties make it a good environment for roots to grow and thrive.""

this is from BARD - Googles AI, has acccess to real time data unlike ChatGPT 3.5, and it may provide more accurate/realistic results/facts over the free version of chatgpt 3.5, perhaps.

BARD is a new one I heard @Spartangrown mention, I must investigate myself. SSgrower

 

[SSgrower]

I use clear solo cups under the red so I can watch the 70/30 perlite mix I use for my early propagation. I do not enjoy this part of growing cannabis, yet. Maybe you & aquaman can help my trepidation. SSgrower

 

[Bandit420]

i am already testing medias lol

Everything old is new again?

50/50 perlite and vermiculite is the OG of soilless . Goes back to what growers were using before rockwool and coco were widely available circa 80's and 90's.
When you handle that shit dry, good idea to wear a respirator.

 

[Observer]

Everything old is new again?

50/50 perlite and vermiculite is the OG of soilless . Goes back to what growers were using before rockwool and coco were widely available circa 80's and 90's.
When you handle that shit dry, good idea to wear a respirator.

I didn't know that I'm new lol

Good to know

 

[Observer]

Everything old is new again?

50/50 perl/vermiculite

.xept I'm mainly talking 100% vermiculite

 

[ZombieRider]

Just dropping in here to say thanks for writing this up. Running five fertigation events a day right now and am wasting too much solution through run off, so needed a quick refresher on volumes. You're a gentleman and a scholar @Aqua Man , I don't care what @Moe.Red says about ya

I find that its pretty hard to get the perfect amount of solution per fertigation event for each plant. Each plant drinks differently so you kinda gotta go with a middle ground. My golden rule is to just make sure they get runoff at lights on and couple hours before lights out. During flower they drink crazy fast so its almost like you gotta just grow out a certain strain and it teaches you how it likes to drink.

 

[tobh]

I find that its pretty hard to get the perfect amount of solution per fertigation event for each plant. Each plant drinks differently so you kinda gotta go with a middle ground. My golden rule is to just make sure they get runoff at lights on and couple hours before lights out. During flower they drink crazy fast so its almost like you gotta just grow out a certain strain and it teaches you how it likes to drink.

for sure. that's also a historic problem for me lol i've only grown out one strain long enough to know it super well once in 20 years. i kept that mom for seven years. otherwise, i have such an extensive vault at this point i'm just trying to burn through strains as fast as possible before the seeds lose viability.

 

[ZombieRider]

for sure. that's also a historic problem for me lol i've only grown out one strain long enough to know it super well once in 20 years. i kept that mom for seven years. otherwise, i have such an extensive vault at this point i'm just trying to burn through strains as fast as possible before the seeds lose viability.

Yeah man its a race to find the keepers before "big cannabis" takes over with their new 50% thc gmo strain and ban others from growing their own via lobbying lol (wrong thread I know lol). So I feel you there, will be hard to learn a strain. I use the amounts @Aqua Man puts in his guide, so 250ml for 1 gallon. In the morning though they tend to need more like 500ml for runoff, so I go in there and just see if any runoff came out after like 10 mins. If not just give em some more. Granted this DTW is wasteful of nutrients, Im starting to get the "waste" in Drain to waste lol.

 

[ZombieRider]

Everything old is new again?

50/50 perlite and vermiculite is the OG of soilless . Goes back to what growers were using before rockwool and coco were widely available circa 80's and 90's.
When you handle that shit dry, good idea to wear a respirator.

I just dont like perlite cuz it raises to the surface of the soil, dries out and aerizes getting on my bud and in my lungs. Its organic but still carcinigous if it gets into your lungs I think. I use rice hulls if I have to have more aeration, though I havent needed any extra aeration for my plants as I dont go bigger than 2 gallon pots of coco.

 

[SSgrower]

Rice hulls are a good source of silica. My 2 cents. SSgrower

 

[Observer]

Rice hulls are a good source of silica. My 2 cents. SSgrower

Organically, it takes awhile for silica to break down into a form the plant can uptake.

But if you're vegging for awhile I suppose it doesn't matter too much.

Monosilicic-acid is the form that's (readily) available for uptake.

 

[SSgrower]

Your right, more advantageous to SS growers, in super soil, see what I did there? I used ProTecKt for a couple years and am trying a $35.00 bottle of Power Si, it now sells for $50.00 same size bottle. Maybe Agritech, Rooted Leaf offers silica for a better value? SSgrower Cheers Observer
h

 

[Observer]

Your right, more advantageous to SS growers, in super soil, see what I did there? I used ProTecKt for a couple years and am trying a $35.00 bottle of Power Si, it now sells for $50.00 same size bottle. Maybe Agritech, Rooted Leaf offers silica for a better value? SSgrower Cheers Observer
h

theres probably a way to "compost" it have it broken down ready to go for transplants.

 

[SSgrower]

Most users I've seen mulch with it. Is it composted to be active, good question. SSgrower

 

[GrumpAzz]

I'm a hydro newb, but Agsil16 is what I used for my base and buffer. It's potassium silicate and comes in powder form. It's pretty damn affordable, really.

I'm not sure about coco, but it's easily mixed into a solution. You just need to let it set for a bit, beforehand.

 

[ZombieRider]

Rice hulls are a good source of silica. My 2 cents. SSgrower

I dont run silica in my nutes as it raises my ph too much, but i can see using rice hulls for their silica so they get it that way. Cool! Do you use rice hulls?

 

[ZombieRider]

I'm a hydro newb, but Agsil16 is what I used for my base and buffer. It's potassium silicate and comes in powder form. It's pretty damn affordable, really.

I'm not sure about coco, but it's easily mixed into a solution. You just need to let it set for a bit, beforehand.

So if I were to let water+armorSi sit for a while THEN mix in the nutes I wont have the PH spikes? If i add armor si in my nutes it goes up like a fricken point a day lol.

 

[GrumpAzz]

So if I were to let water+armorSi sit for a while THEN mix in the nutes I wont have the PH spikes? If i add armor si in my nutes it goes up like a fricken point a day lol.

Hard to say. I have ArmorSi but Moe steered me away from it for my hydro setup. I think the directions on the bottle mentioned waiting? Or maybe it was their website? Not completely sure, honestly.

 

[Bandit420]

I just dont like perlite cuz it raises to the surface of the soil, dries out and aerizes getting on my bud and in my lungs. Its organic but still carcinigous if it gets into your lungs I think. I use rice hulls if I have to have more aeration, though I havent needed any extra aeration for my plants as I dont go bigger than 2 gallon pots of coco.

The dark side of organics.
It's not all hippie free love and tofu for sure. Lots and lots of things out there labeled organic are things I wouldn't allow anywhere near my ganja. Like arsenic for example. Yeah it's organic but also lethal. Gotta watch out for that heavy metal shit hiding in nutes.
My biggest issues with perlite and vermiculite are how they're acquired or mined and not being renewable like coco.
I don't mind perlite in my potting mixes but refuse to work with it by itself or buy bags of it to lighten soil. That shit is like working with fiberglass insulation and ya need a respirator opening the bags. Once it's wetted down though it's relatively safe and that dust shouldn't be a problem. Bat guano is another. Well really all the guanos are pretty bad when it comes to dust messing with your lungs and eyes

 

[ZombieRider]

The dark side of organics.
It's not all hippie free love and tofu for sure. Lots and lots of things out there labeled organic are things I wouldn't allow anywhere near my ganja. Like arsenic for example. Yeah it's organic but also lethal. Gotta watch out for that heavy metal shit hiding in nutes.
My biggest issues with perlite and vermiculite are how they're acquired or mined and not being renewable like coco.
I don't mind perlite in my potting mixes but refuse to work with it by itself or buy bags of it to lighten soil. That shit is like working with fiberglass insulation and ya need a respirator opening the bags. Once it's wetted down though it's relatively safe and that dust shouldn't be a problem. Bat guano is another. Well really all the guanos are pretty bad when it comes to dust messing with your lungs and eyes

Yeah man anything getting airborne and into your lungs is gonna be bad for us. This obsession with "everything organic is better" can make people blind to some of its associated dangers. Lots of growers will go organic to have healthier weed, which is totally true imo, but they forget that their weed might be full of mold, bugs or organic matter like perlite and flecks of bat guano.

This is also why i dont like using polyester scrog netting. If you cut the net anywhere near your buds, your gonna be smoking polyester fibers. The plastic netting i found totally negates that danger and is easier to manage than the stretchy scrogs.

 

[Doobie]

I am only on Week 4 using Floraflex 1 gallon compressed bricks that already come in a bag.
I honestly don’t know any downsides yet and hopefully there aren’t any.
The upsides are IMO:
1. They come with a premade root riot/peat clone plug built in and already in the plastic bag you run to full term.
2. I am seriously over 2 transplants after the clones are rooted. First solo cup then final 1-2 gallon pot. I am lazy and know matter what coco gets everywhere in my shop each time. I run just under 100 plants and if this experiment works screw that!
3. Properly cleaning the pots when done sucks also!
4. Canna bagged coco plus 10-20% perlite costs about 50% more not including $2-3 per pot. You also need 2 sets of pots to be ready to go after chop! My hydro shop sells me 200 Floraflex ready to go bags for $198 plus tax. Or $2 each.
5. I know I already said this but cleaning the pots and sanitizing them and cleaning up the coco mess from 2 transplants sucks. I have been growing in coco since I switched to A hydro grower from dirt farmer. Nothing against you soil growers cause I’m pretty sure your product does end up a little better in the end. However if my new premade floraflex bags don’t do well I definitely plan to try rockwool. Call me lazy if you want but if you are running more than a tent full of plants bagged coco is a lot of work that I really don’t want to do anymore if I can figure out another way. I truly would rather stay in coco but these damn bags better work! I will never rep or suggest any companies product unless it works and the jury is definitely still out on that.

Peace out,

LJ

View attachment 5514View attachment 5515

How did those Floraflex bags work out? I was thinking about getting some .

 

[SSgrower]

I dont run silica in my nutes as it raises my ph too much, but i can see using rice hulls for their silica so they get it that way. Cool! Do you use rice hulls?

No, if I go super soil again I might. I do recycle some of my run-off and re use, but it's scary and chance of problems. I use pH down when I use Power Si. SSgrower

 

[Rootsruler]

I've used ProTekt as my silica almost exclusively but I bought a quart of Armor SI to see how it pairs with FloraNova since they're made by the same company. I don't really wait or mix it in in any particular order. Curious why Moe said to wait.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I've used ProTekt as my silica almost exclusively but I bought a quart of Armor SI to see how it pairs with FloraNova since they're made by the same company. I don't really wait or mix it in in any particular order. Curious why Moe said to wait.

I'll look back in the early pages of my thread but I'm pretty sure he explained it to me there. He steered me away from PowerSi so I haven't used it yet. But when using the Agsil, I believe it had something to do with it "activating" like it needs to break down from potassium silicate before it can be absorbed by the plant. Let me do some digging.

 

[SSgrower]

I'd like to hear what Moe says as well, as I use it and mix it 1st. then cal/mag Fuel from Rooted Leaf/Agritech, then my Canna Coco pt.1 and then pt.2, any bloom booster last. SSgrower Note: I don't use it every watering, once daily sometimes no cal/mag in mixture. I try to keep it simple, hey Moe, na,na,na na na!

 

[Observer]

using the Agsil, I believe it had something to do with it "activating" like it needs to break down from potassium silicate before it can be absorbed by the plant. Let me do some digging.

i think this is correct.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I'd like to hear what Moe says as well, as I use it and mix it 1st. then cal/mag Fuel from Rooted Leaf/Agritech, then my Canna Coco pt.1 and then pt.2, any bloom booster last. SSgrower Note: I don't use it every watering, once daily sometimes no cal/mag in mixture. I try to keep it simple, hey Moe, na,na,na na na!

I went back through my thread but it's 46 pages so I gave up before I found it

@Moe.Red wanna clarify this for these guys? I just followed instructions because it basically went over my head.

 

[moe.red]

I think I'm answering the right question, but there may be a few ? here...

When starting a new res / grow using hydro, if you first add Potassium Silicate to the res water (assume RO for this to simplify) the PH will skyrocket up to past 9. That's fine, no plants or bennies yet to harm. If you let that sit / stir for a day, then come back and add PH Down (phosphoric acid) and the 2 battle it out, setting up a PH buffer of sorts and the end result of the chemical reaction is monosilicic acid in plant ready form (plus some PH buffering)


Mono-silicic acid has three primary effects on plants:

1. Mechanical – Builds structure and resistance to stress
   Deposits silicon directly into the outer layer of the cell creating a rigid barrier and a more solid structure.
2. Nutritional – Increased and more balanced uptake of nutrients
   Pressurizes the plant sap to allow a better and more even flow of nutrients throughout the plant circulatory system.
3. Immunity – Stimulates plant’s immune system
   Triggers the production of immunity compounds, as well as drawing silicon to the point of attack to rebuild and strengthen tissue.

1. MECHANICAL
Silicon is deposited in the cell walls creating a strong, rigid structure, much like a brick wall cemented together. Cells are able to maintain their shape amid environmental attacks. When the wind blows and bends a stem in one direction, cells on the downwind side are compressed. Silicon makes firmer cells that compress less when bent.

In the case of drought, stronger cell walls are better at maintaining water balance inside the cells. Imagine filling a water balloon – the balloon is firm and taught. Then, as you deflate, the skin of the balloon becomes soft and yielding. This is why dry plants droop. Stronger cells keep their structural integrity for longer.

The improved structure also improves shelflife. Produce gets bruised less, and keeps its structure for a longer time.

2. NUTRITIONAL
Mono-silicic acid has a remarkable effect on the uptake of other nutrients. Think of it as a train engine that helps pull other “cars” through the plant sap. Mono-silicic acid is particularly good at increasing the transport of heavy, immobile minerals like calcium.

When present, mono-silicic acid increases the pressure of the vascular system (like our own circulatory system). Imagine a hose filled with tiny particles of sand (nutrients). If a trickle of water (plant sap) moves through the hose, most of the particles stay put. If the water pressure is increased to a heavy flow, more of the sand particles are pushed through the hose.

Plants don’t have muscles in the same way we do. Instead, elements are moved around the plant by suction, pressure, and molecular interaction. Lower pressure, created by synthetic fertilizers and overwatering, makes heavier molecules less mobile. By increasing the pressure, minerals are more easily carried throughout the plant.

With higher internal pressure inside all other minerals, in various forms, are more easily moved throughout the plant to where they are required. This vascular pressure is especially important for larger plants with more branching as more energy is required to move nutrients along these complex and far-reaching pathways.

3. IMMUNITY
Attacking insects must somehow puncture the wall of the plant “skin” in order to suck the fluid, eat the tissue or burrow inside. By increasing the thickness of the cell walls, with silicon deposits, many of these tiny insects are unable to break the surface of the cell.

When it comes to pathogens, like fungi, it’s important to understand that silica doesn’t kill the pathogen but rather makes the plant inhospitable to the pathogen. By blocking fungal spores from attaching, the plant maintains its health and strength. This is the best, most natural, preventative approach.

There are compelling studies too that show plants move extra silicic acid to points of attack and stress such as insects, fungi or breakage. This is much like when we get a cut and platelets in our blood rush to the cut to create a clot while the wound heals. The additional silicon deposits create even stronger tissue.


But this is for startup only as the PH swings it causes can do more harm than good. If you are beyond startup phase or are not doing hydro, my advice would be different.

 

[Max]

That’s really good info moe ..this needs to b seperate from this thread and stickied.

 

[moe.red]

That’s really good info moe ..this needs to b seperate from this thread and stickied.

So in my crazy scientist lab I am performing a host of experiments with buffering PH in hydro. Getting some help from Aqua and Franksta on that, and I am still in it. One of the biggest problems I have is things like buffering - it's not one thing. There is GH - general hardness, KH - (which most people consider the actual buffer you are looking for - this comes from the aquarium trade where people use kalkwasser and such to put calcium hardness in the water) but PH buffering is not just those 2 things.

The other things that cause buffering are not something I can measure

So I'm working on putting together a "best practices" sorta document to lead folks thru the recipe for how to best prep and maintain your res. The above info is part of that of course.

When I get this nailed down to a point where I can internalize it and easily explain it to a layman, that will become the sticky. Right now, I'm still in college on PH balance 102.

If you want to dig in with me, I would start your journey over at the science in hydroponics website and strap in, it gets deep pretty quick. Which is why this all needs to be simplified down to a best practices document. New growers, follow this advice to start, and as you get thru several grows it will start to sink in why you are doing this.

If you want the cliff notes version right now, it is to start the res with the potassium silicate and phosphoric acid I mentioned above. And tag me in if you have questions on your grow diary.