First Time.

[GrumpAzz]

Nah you can over water hydro… do you have airstones? Your humidity is way to high imo and temps to low. Day temp around 80f and 55-60% humidity night 70-75f and 50-55% humidity

2 airstones in the plant res. 1 in the control res. It's a fallponics rdwc. Streams shooting down from the shorter sides of the tote. Should be plenty of oxygenation, right? I feel like that's where you were headed so forgive me for assuming.

I had troubles early on (before the plant) with the 69 pro. Quit using the nighttime automation and the troubles went away so I quit. I think Moe had me around 74 and 70 but that was very early on and we haven't really discussed temps and humidity since. Maybe we were in the seedling stage?

I'll do that though. Is it a simple overnight swap or a gradual, couple day thing?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Think we went over some of that before no? Im scatter brained from work the last few weeks

No big deal, big guy. Life's a fast ride. I appreciate you stepping in to help. Same for you @smoke

 

[Aqua Man]

No big deal, big guy. Life's a fast ride. I appreciate you stepping in to help. Same for you @smoke

Oh yeah that humidity is very much for seedlings…. After a few days lets get some pics of those leaves once the temps are up and the humidity is down

 

[GrumpAzz]

Oh yeah that humidity is very much for seedlings…. After a few days lets get some pics of those leaves once the temps are up and the humidity is down

You got it, dude. I may throw some epsom in there since you said it wouldn't hurt. I'll go easy on it. 2g for my 15 gallons?

 

[smoke]

No big deal, big guy. Life's a fast ride. I appreciate you stepping in to help. Same for you @smoke

Im stepping in to learn. Lol

 

[Aqua Man]

You got it, dude. I may throw some epsom in there since you said it wouldn't hurt. I'll go easy on it. 2g for my 15 gallons?

Yup that should be fine

 

[Aqua Man]

Ill explain my thinking quick then off to bed.

Leaves swell like that when moisture get trapped inside them. Thats why i said environmental in the first post. The purple (anthocyanins) is a sign of low photosynthetic ability and higher light which is why i asked that. Then i forgot you were in hydro and overwatering can cause that swelling also from high root pressure and low transpiration from humidity.

The purple is happening from P deficiency and possibly some genetic because the humidity is so high its not pulling enough water from the plant to give good uptake..

There are a few more things that can cause this but with those humidity levels im fairly certain its where the issue lies.

To understand some more check the VPD thread i wrote because it will likely make a bit more sense after you have seen these issues and you get to see the resuly of your changes. Many say they dont use VPD and have no issues and thats only because they are sitting close if not right in yhe middle of it to begin with

 

[smoke]

This is a zoomed in shot of your picture from Saturday, do you think their getting redder today?

 

[GrumpAzz]

This is a zoomed in shot of your picture from Saturday, do you think their getting redder today? View attachment 10183

It seems like they darken like that with time. The stems on the older fans are darker than on any of the newer growth. It's lights off right now but I'm almost positive that's how she's been growing so far.

Is there something to look out for with the pinker stems? Her main stems have a really dark purple pinstriping.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Ill explain my thinking quick then off to bed.

Leaves swell like that when moisture get trapped inside them. Thats why i said environmental in the first post. The purple (anthocyanins) is a sign of low photosynthetic ability and higher light which is why i asked that. Then i forgot you were in hydro and overwatering can cause that swelling also from high root pressure and low transpiration from humidity.

The purple is happening from P deficiency and possibly some genetic because the humidity is so high its not pulling enough water from the plant to give good uptake..

There are a few more things that can cause this but with those humidity levels im fairly certain its where the issue lies.

To understand some more check the VPD thread i wrote because it will likely make a bit more sense after you have seen these issues and you get to see the resuly of your changes. Many say they dont use VPD and have no issues and thats only because they are sitting close if not right in yhe middle of it to begin with

I've got so much learning to do. It's pretty exciting. I don't get much more than toilet time and smoke breaks to cruise through the threads but the list keeps getting longer. Again, I really appreciate the quick response. Epsom has been added. I'll update in the morning.

Balancing the GH trio was too difficult, so I went with their light feeding chart and took a little off the top. Here's to hoping it's not a P deficiency

 

[GrumpAzz]

This is a zoomed in shot of your picture from Saturday, do you think their getting redder today? View attachment 10183

This was June 7th. Those stems were already darkening.

 

[smoke]

I've got so much learning to do. It's pretty exciting. I don't get much more than toilet time and smoke breaks to cruise through the threads but the list keeps getting longer. Again, I really appreciate the quick response. Epsom has been added. I'll update in the morning.

Balancing the GH trio was too difficult, so I went with their light feeding chart and took a little off the top. Here's to hoping it's not a P deficiency

I would do as aqua advised and drop the humidity first and see. The new growth should be coming in greener.

Hard to say if it's genetic but what ive noticed in my grows is the p deficiency shows up later in the flower stage with stalk striping and wanting to turn purple on the stems. Not talking the stem of the fan leaf that's the peciolo or the petiole

 

[GrumpAzz]

I would do as aqua advised and drop the humidity first and see. The new growth should be coming in greener.

Hard to say if it's genetic but what ive noticed in my grows is the p deficiency shows up later in the flower stage with stalk striping and wanting to turn purple on the stems. Not talking the stem of the fan leaf that's the peciolo or the petiole (aka stem of fan leaf)

Ok so you were referencing the pinstriping, gotcha. She's had that from pretty early on as well. I thought maybe it was just a cool characteristic of hers.

 

[smoke]

Ok so you were referencing the pinstriping, gotcha. She's had that from pretty early on as well. I thought maybe it was just a cool characteristic of hers.

It maybe is just a cool characteristic. ??

 

[GrumpAzz]

It maybe is just a cool characteristic. ??

Time will tell. Added some epsom last night and I cringed a little when I saw the ppms hit 500 knowing how little your plants get. Hopefully the vpd change will really set her off. It looked as though my new tops really loved it and had the most visible growth since the snip last week.

 

[Rootsruler]

@Aqua Man - Is there a degree to this effect in hydro vs soil? I've run high humidity through veg and not run into this problem. Is there a slower uptake in soil due to cationic effect so environment doesn't affect it as much?

 

[GrumpAzz]

So last night we determined that my VPD needed adjusted. We're now running seperate day and night settings at 79/72 degrees and 55/51% rh. I've already noticed a big change in the humidifiers runtime. This leads me to believe, as the plant grows and progresses into flower, I'm going to need a dehumidifier. Last night, the humidifier only kicked on once, for a minute, when the rh hit the low limit.

Does anyone have a brand of dehumidifier they'd recommend? I'd like one with a manual switch so it can be ran with my 69 pro.

 

[moe.red]

So last night we determined that my VPD needed adjusted. We're now running seperate day and night settings at 79/72 degrees and 55/51% rh. I've already noticed a big change in the humidifiers runtime. This leads me to believe, as the plant grows and progresses into flower, I'm going to need a dehumidifier. Last night, the humidifier only kicked on once, for a minute, when the rh hit the low limit.

Does anyone have a brand of dehumidifier they'd recommend? I'd like one with a manual switch so it can be ran with my 69 pro.

This will get worse with additional plant material in the tent. Bigger plants = more respiration = higher RH, especially at lights out. This becomes a real problem in flower when RH spikes at night can reach high 70s and 80s easily. Causes mold issues.

I think the best thing to do on a humidifier is to get the biggest one you can afford. It will add some heat to the space. I think 70LPD is the minimum size to be considered for a RDWC room with extra space for more plants in the future.

In terms of brands, I am not the right guy to ask, mine are industrial size. All of the smaller ones I tried to use got overwhelmed.

 

[GrumpAzz]

This will get worse with additional plant material in the tent. Bigger plants = more respiration = higher RH, especially at lights out. This becomes a real problem in flower when RH spikes at night can reach high 70s and 80s easily. Causes mold issues.

I think the best thing to do on a humidifier is to get the biggest one you can afford. It will add some heat to the space. I think 70LPD is the minimum size to be considered for a RDWC room with extra space for more plants in the future.

In terms of brands, I am not the right guy to ask, mine are industrial size. All of the smaller ones I tried to use got overwhelmed.

Oversized is always better than under. I'll do some looking but I'm under the impression one will be necessary. My exhaust never got above its lowest level so I'll play with it some and see if I see a difference, but I invision the dehumidifier being inevitable.

 

[moe.red]

Oversized is always better than under. I'll do some looking but I'm under the impression one will be necessary. My exhaust never got above its lowest level so I'll play with it some and see if I see a difference, but I invision the dehumidifier being inevitable.

I tend to agree if you want to get serious about this.

You can also make due with what you have if you are just dabbling. It would not kill you to wait a grow and see. And then on grow 2 you will be flowering in the winter, so not as necessary then.

If you grow big plants in my area in the summer, a dehuey is only optional if I am prepared to deal with bud rot.

 

[SiamSam]

It seems like they darken like that with time. The stems on the older fans are darker than on any of the newer growth. It's lights off right now but I'm almost positive that's how she's been growing so far.

Is there something to look out for with the pinker stems? Her main stems have a really dark purple pinstriping.

Deep Purple Pinstriping 3x fast

 

[Cool_Beans]

Not sure if this was covered but without avg leaf temp differential entered in the controller 69 settings, the displayed vfd has not been accurate in my experience. I only use vfd for quick reference but C69 can also automate around it so ymmv.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I tend to agree if you want to get serious about this.

You can also make due with what you have if you are just dabbling. It would not kill you to wait a grow and see. And then on grow 2 you will be flowering in the winter, so not as necessary then.

If you grow big plants in my area in the summer, a dehuey is only optional if I am prepared to deal with bud rot.

So I kicked the fan's minimum up to 2 and it's forced the heater and humidifier to run almost twice as often as through the night required. I think I'll start shopping around for a dehumidifier, but the fan seems to be bringing in enough dry air for the humidifier to be needed. That just means I have a little time to get it figured out, not that I won't buy one. It's not worth the risk, as this may be my only harvest for a while. No way I want to hit the road without a harvests worth to get me by.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Not sure if this was covered but without avg leaf temp differential entered in the controller 69 settings, the displayed vfd has not been accurate in my experience. I only use vfd for quick reference but C69 can also automate around it so ymmv.

Yeah I've checked the leaf temp and it's pretty consistent at 2-3 degrees below tent temps. That's where I set the 69's leaf offset.

 

[Aqua Man]

@Aqua Man - Is there a degree to this effect in hydro vs soil? I've run high humidity through veg and not run into this problem. Is there a slower uptake in soil due to cationic effect so environment doesn't affect it as much?

Ill get back at this after work because i think the convo will get deeper and want to give it a good deep answer and follow up.

 

[Aqua Man]

So last night we determined that my VPD needed adjusted. We're now running seperate day and night settings at 79/72 degrees and 55/51% rh. I've already noticed a big change in the humidifiers runtime. This leads me to believe, as the plant grows and progresses into flower, I'm going to need a dehumidifier. Last night, the humidifier only kicked on once, for a minute, when the rh hit the low limit.

Does anyone have a brand of dehumidifier they'd recommend? I'd like one with a manual switch so it can be ran with my 69 pro.

Toshiba i really like. Been beating on it for years now. 50 pint will do for a 4x4 but the 70pint with auto restart function (super important) and a drain hose attachment would be ideal

 

[GrumpAzz]

It's hard to see any improvement on the leaves in question, but overall I'd say she has responded well to the new environmental conditions. Half inch of vertical growth and she's nearly covered the tote completely.

She's nearly 10 inches tall and the tote is 16x21. Pretty squatted but she's really bushing out. I think she'll fill a 3x3 no problem.

 

[Aqua Man]

It's hard to see any improvement on the leaves in question, but overall I'd say she has responded well to the new environmental conditions. Half inch of vertical growth and she's nearly covered the tote completely.
View attachment 10446
She's nearly 10 inches tall and the tote is 16x21. Pretty squatted but she's really bushing out. I think she'll fill a 3x3 no problem.

You wont see any improvement really on the existing growth but newer leaves should not be swollen and the issue should not progress to nee leaves. The old leaves will get worse and be aborted by the plant.

They dont waste energy repairing leaves but instead just grow new ones.

 

[GrumpAzz]

You wont see any improvement really on the existing growth but newer leaves should not be swollen and the issue should not progress to nee leaves. The old leaves will get worse and be aborted by the plant.

They dont waste energy repairing leaves but instead just grow new ones.

Ok. So don't be alarmed if I see the fading on some of the fans get worse? Makes sense.

 

[Aqua Man]

Ill get back at this after work because i think the convo will get deeper and want to give it a good deep answer and follow up.

Its more to deal with the osmotic pressure and to an extent o2 as its a requirement for plants up take nutrients. This is why its best to water around lights on. Light drives photosynthesis and transpiration.

There are many factors that all contribute to this but cooler temps and higher humidity will slow transpiration. Its a combination of several things in his case.

You can look up guttation to get a better idea how this happens as part of the equation. Its not so much the guttation thats the issue but the constant high humidity restricting the uptake