First Time.

[GrumpAzz]

Got rid of some of the older lower fans tonight, the droopy ones that have been overgrown. She's got some crazy internodal spacing, like Moe mentioned early on. Grabbed a few pics and finished my inspection just before lights out. No sign of any more bugs

 

[moe.red]

@Moe.Red, I found another bug on some newer growth. Only saw the one and blew it off the leaf.
View attachment 9591
View attachment 9592

Can you grab a clean still from your vid’s and post them? We may be able to use ai to identify

 

[moe.red]

Got rid of some of the older lower fans tonight, the droopy ones that have been overgrown. She's got some crazy internodal spacing, like Moe mentioned early on. Grabbed a few pics and finished my inspection just before lights out. No sign of any more bugs View attachment 9645View attachment 9646View attachment 9647

Looking good.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Looking good.

Thanks man. Everything's been going super smooth. Smell gets stronger every day and I'm thinking we'll be flipping in less than a month, the way this thing is growing. Thanks again for the head start.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Can you grab a clean still from your vid’s and post them? We may be able to use ai to identify

 

[moe.red]

Sorry man, too blurry for non humans.

I do not recognize either of those.

Personally I would not sweat it. If you see symptoms, post them up.

 

[Rootsruler]

Almost looks like an Aphid or Thrip. I would be proactive and spray with insecticidal soap spray and continue inspecting the plant daily for bugs.

 

[smoke]

Dawn dish soap and water is a simple IPM spray that works.
After lights out

 

[smoke]

 

[steamroller]

View attachment 9811
View attachment 9812

First pic could be two spotted collops beetle [good bug].
Second tough call.
This is my bug link;
https://agsci.colostate.edu/hempinsects/hemp-insects-text/
I like spinosad over soaps myself.
It is smell thing for me. Bad memories of soapy pot from a wasted youth~!

 

[GrumpAzz]

First pic could be two spotted collops beetle [good bug].
Second tough call.
This is my bug link;
https://agsci.colostate.edu/hempinsects/hemp-insects-text/
I like spinosad over soaps myself.
It is smell thing for me. Bad memories of soapy pot from a wasted youth~!

Same bug. Looks a lot like a young thrip, though, with the shape. Looks just like the last bug I found, but this one was orange.

 

[steamroller]

Thrip damage is usually pretty easy to recognize.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I'm calling this Magnesium deficiency and am headed to get some epsom. All I have is CalMag but it's mostly calcium, or does that matter? I'm assuming I'll need epsom later anyway so it won't be a wasted trip. If anything, it'll soothe some aches and pains later.

I've been watching it progress on one particular leaf, but tonight I see it on a few. It's newer growth but not the newest. Older growth seems to be ok?

@steamroller @smoke @Moe.Red @Aqua Man

 

[Aqua Man]

I'm calling this Magnesium deficiency and am headed to get some epsom. All I have is CalMag but it's mostly calcium, or does that matter? I'm assuming I'll need epsom later anyway so it won't be a wasted trip. If anything, it'll soothe some aches and pains later.

I've been watching it progress on one particular leaf, but tonight I see it on a few. It's newer growth but not the newest. Older growth seems to be ok?
View attachment 10157
@steamroller @smoke @Moe.Red @Aqua Man

Environmental and light are the cause…. Look how swollen those leaves are bro… its not caused by a lack of although some mag sulphate may help.

Can you give the environmental conditions and light intensity

 

[Aqua Man]

Could also be over watering… also cery strong possibility

 

[smoke]

Is this strain know for its red stacks and stems?
Stalks not the peciolo

 

[GrumpAzz]

Environmental and light are the cause…. Look how swollen those leaves are bro… its not caused by a lack of although some mag sulphate may help.

Can you give the environmental conditions and light intensity

Environment has been stable, for the most part. The two drops in temp were the nights the heater quit on me. The first symptoms did appear shortly after the first drop.

Light info:
SE5000 24" above canopy. 24% intensity. 18/6 cycle.

I backed it off to 20% a week and a half ago, bumping it up 1% every couple days. I raise the light to maintain the 24" recommended by SF. It's 11.5k lux.

Could also be over watering… also cery strong possibility

I wasn't aware of overwatering being an issue with hydro. Does that mean my hydroton is oversaturated? Lower the water level? Top-off has been mostly RO and she's drank 5 gallons since the res change. Maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago? Upped ppms 2 weeks ago from 320 to 480.

Water meter reads:
470 ppm (500 scale)
72 degrees
6.0 pH

Is this strain know for its red stacks and stems?
Stalks not the peciolo

I have no idea, really. They were the only $2 ones on NASC when I first bought seeds. Humboldt County's phenohunter line. Jungle Cake X Wedding Tree. Nobody I've talked to has had any real idea as to what I'm gonna get. Had a grow off going at the Farm but I've lost touch with that guy.

 

[Aqua Man]

Environment has been stable, for the most part. The two drops in temp were the nights the heater quit on me. The first symptoms did appear shortly after the first drop.

Light info:
SE5000 24" above canopy. 24% intensity. 18/6 cycle.

I backed it off to 20% a week and a half ago, bumping it up 1% every couple days. I raise the light to maintain the 24" recommended by SF. It's 11.5k lux.
View attachment 10178


I wasn't aware of overwatering being an issue with hydro. Does that mean my hydroton is oversaturated? Lower the water level? Top-off has been mostly RO and she's drank 5 gallons since the res change. Maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago? Upped ppms 2 weeks ago from 320 to 480.

Water meter reads:
470 ppm (500 scale)
72 degrees
6.0 pH


I have no idea, really. They were the only $2 ones on NASC when I first bought seeds. Humboldt County's phenohunter line. Jungle Cake X Wedding Tree. Nobody I've talked to has had any real idea as to what I'm gonna get. Had a grow off going at the Farm but I've lost touch with that guy.

Nah you cant over water hydro… do you have airstones? Your humidity is way to high imo and temps to low. Day temp around 80f and 55-60% humidity night 70-75f and 50-55% humidity

 

[Aqua Man]

Think we went over some of that before no? Im scatter brained from work the last few weeks

 

[Aqua Man]

Id ahoot for 55% day humidity

 

[GrumpAzz]

Nah you can over water hydro… do you have airstones? Your humidity is way to high imo and temps to low. Day temp around 80f and 55-60% humidity night 70-75f and 50-55% humidity

2 airstones in the plant res. 1 in the control res. It's a fallponics rdwc. Streams shooting down from the shorter sides of the tote. Should be plenty of oxygenation, right? I feel like that's where you were headed so forgive me for assuming.

I had troubles early on (before the plant) with the 69 pro. Quit using the nighttime automation and the troubles went away so I quit. I think Moe had me around 74 and 70 but that was very early on and we haven't really discussed temps and humidity since. Maybe we were in the seedling stage?

I'll do that though. Is it a simple overnight swap or a gradual, couple day thing?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Think we went over some of that before no? Im scatter brained from work the last few weeks

No big deal, big guy. Life's a fast ride. I appreciate you stepping in to help. Same for you @smoke

 

[Aqua Man]

No big deal, big guy. Life's a fast ride. I appreciate you stepping in to help. Same for you @smoke

Oh yeah that humidity is very much for seedlings…. After a few days lets get some pics of those leaves once the temps are up and the humidity is down

 

[GrumpAzz]

Oh yeah that humidity is very much for seedlings…. After a few days lets get some pics of those leaves once the temps are up and the humidity is down

You got it, dude. I may throw some epsom in there since you said it wouldn't hurt. I'll go easy on it. 2g for my 15 gallons?

 

[smoke]

No big deal, big guy. Life's a fast ride. I appreciate you stepping in to help. Same for you @smoke

Im stepping in to learn. Lol

 

[Aqua Man]

You got it, dude. I may throw some epsom in there since you said it wouldn't hurt. I'll go easy on it. 2g for my 15 gallons?

Yup that should be fine

 

[Aqua Man]

Ill explain my thinking quick then off to bed.

Leaves swell like that when moisture get trapped inside them. Thats why i said environmental in the first post. The purple (anthocyanins) is a sign of low photosynthetic ability and higher light which is why i asked that. Then i forgot you were in hydro and overwatering can cause that swelling also from high root pressure and low transpiration from humidity.

The purple is happening from P deficiency and possibly some genetic because the humidity is so high its not pulling enough water from the plant to give good uptake..

There are a few more things that can cause this but with those humidity levels im fairly certain its where the issue lies.

To understand some more check the VPD thread i wrote because it will likely make a bit more sense after you have seen these issues and you get to see the resuly of your changes. Many say they dont use VPD and have no issues and thats only because they are sitting close if not right in yhe middle of it to begin with

 

[smoke]

This is a zoomed in shot of your picture from Saturday, do you think their getting redder today?

 

[GrumpAzz]

This is a zoomed in shot of your picture from Saturday, do you think their getting redder today? View attachment 10183

It seems like they darken like that with time. The stems on the older fans are darker than on any of the newer growth. It's lights off right now but I'm almost positive that's how she's been growing so far.

Is there something to look out for with the pinker stems? Her main stems have a really dark purple pinstriping.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Ill explain my thinking quick then off to bed.

Leaves swell like that when moisture get trapped inside them. Thats why i said environmental in the first post. The purple (anthocyanins) is a sign of low photosynthetic ability and higher light which is why i asked that. Then i forgot you were in hydro and overwatering can cause that swelling also from high root pressure and low transpiration from humidity.

The purple is happening from P deficiency and possibly some genetic because the humidity is so high its not pulling enough water from the plant to give good uptake..

There are a few more things that can cause this but with those humidity levels im fairly certain its where the issue lies.

To understand some more check the VPD thread i wrote because it will likely make a bit more sense after you have seen these issues and you get to see the resuly of your changes. Many say they dont use VPD and have no issues and thats only because they are sitting close if not right in yhe middle of it to begin with

I've got so much learning to do. It's pretty exciting. I don't get much more than toilet time and smoke breaks to cruise through the threads but the list keeps getting longer. Again, I really appreciate the quick response. Epsom has been added. I'll update in the morning.

Balancing the GH trio was too difficult, so I went with their light feeding chart and took a little off the top. Here's to hoping it's not a P deficiency

 

[GrumpAzz]

This is a zoomed in shot of your picture from Saturday, do you think their getting redder today? View attachment 10183

This was June 7th. Those stems were already darkening.

 

[smoke]

I've got so much learning to do. It's pretty exciting. I don't get much more than toilet time and smoke breaks to cruise through the threads but the list keeps getting longer. Again, I really appreciate the quick response. Epsom has been added. I'll update in the morning.

Balancing the GH trio was too difficult, so I went with their light feeding chart and took a little off the top. Here's to hoping it's not a P deficiency

I would do as aqua advised and drop the humidity first and see. The new growth should be coming in greener.

Hard to say if it's genetic but what ive noticed in my grows is the p deficiency shows up later in the flower stage with stalk striping and wanting to turn purple on the stems. Not talking the stem of the fan leaf that's the peciolo or the petiole

 

[GrumpAzz]

I would do as aqua advised and drop the humidity first and see. The new growth should be coming in greener.

Hard to say if it's genetic but what ive noticed in my grows is the p deficiency shows up later in the flower stage with stalk striping and wanting to turn purple on the stems. Not talking the stem of the fan leaf that's the peciolo or the petiole (aka stem of fan leaf)

Ok so you were referencing the pinstriping, gotcha. She's had that from pretty early on as well. I thought maybe it was just a cool characteristic of hers.

 

[smoke]

Ok so you were referencing the pinstriping, gotcha. She's had that from pretty early on as well. I thought maybe it was just a cool characteristic of hers.

It maybe is just a cool characteristic. ??

 

[GrumpAzz]

It maybe is just a cool characteristic. ??

Time will tell. Added some epsom last night and I cringed a little when I saw the ppms hit 500 knowing how little your plants get. Hopefully the vpd change will really set her off. It looked as though my new tops really loved it and had the most visible growth since the snip last week.

 

[Rootsruler]

@Aqua Man - Is there a degree to this effect in hydro vs soil? I've run high humidity through veg and not run into this problem. Is there a slower uptake in soil due to cationic effect so environment doesn't affect it as much?

 

[GrumpAzz]

So last night we determined that my VPD needed adjusted. We're now running seperate day and night settings at 79/72 degrees and 55/51% rh. I've already noticed a big change in the humidifiers runtime. This leads me to believe, as the plant grows and progresses into flower, I'm going to need a dehumidifier. Last night, the humidifier only kicked on once, for a minute, when the rh hit the low limit.

Does anyone have a brand of dehumidifier they'd recommend? I'd like one with a manual switch so it can be ran with my 69 pro.

 

[moe.red]

So last night we determined that my VPD needed adjusted. We're now running seperate day and night settings at 79/72 degrees and 55/51% rh. I've already noticed a big change in the humidifiers runtime. This leads me to believe, as the plant grows and progresses into flower, I'm going to need a dehumidifier. Last night, the humidifier only kicked on once, for a minute, when the rh hit the low limit.

Does anyone have a brand of dehumidifier they'd recommend? I'd like one with a manual switch so it can be ran with my 69 pro.

This will get worse with additional plant material in the tent. Bigger plants = more respiration = higher RH, especially at lights out. This becomes a real problem in flower when RH spikes at night can reach high 70s and 80s easily. Causes mold issues.

I think the best thing to do on a humidifier is to get the biggest one you can afford. It will add some heat to the space. I think 70LPD is the minimum size to be considered for a RDWC room with extra space for more plants in the future.

In terms of brands, I am not the right guy to ask, mine are industrial size. All of the smaller ones I tried to use got overwhelmed.

 

[GrumpAzz]

This will get worse with additional plant material in the tent. Bigger plants = more respiration = higher RH, especially at lights out. This becomes a real problem in flower when RH spikes at night can reach high 70s and 80s easily. Causes mold issues.

I think the best thing to do on a humidifier is to get the biggest one you can afford. It will add some heat to the space. I think 70LPD is the minimum size to be considered for a RDWC room with extra space for more plants in the future.

In terms of brands, I am not the right guy to ask, mine are industrial size. All of the smaller ones I tried to use got overwhelmed.

Oversized is always better than under. I'll do some looking but I'm under the impression one will be necessary. My exhaust never got above its lowest level so I'll play with it some and see if I see a difference, but I invision the dehumidifier being inevitable.

 

[moe.red]

Oversized is always better than under. I'll do some looking but I'm under the impression one will be necessary. My exhaust never got above its lowest level so I'll play with it some and see if I see a difference, but I invision the dehumidifier being inevitable.

I tend to agree if you want to get serious about this.

You can also make due with what you have if you are just dabbling. It would not kill you to wait a grow and see. And then on grow 2 you will be flowering in the winter, so not as necessary then.

If you grow big plants in my area in the summer, a dehuey is only optional if I am prepared to deal with bud rot.