Let me find a link for you. There is one on science in hydroponics.

Silica (SiO2)…………. 53% Potassium (K2O)........32% Derived from Potassium Silicate


I'm looking for a short answer on science in hydroponics where I first read this, but Agsil and PH Down together create mono-silicic acid which is both the highest recommended buffer and is plant available.

I'll keep reading and try to condense it down to a couple paragraphs. the whole story requires reading several posts.

Yeah but that happens over time and mono silicic acid does not act as an alkaline ph buffer.

Silicate does but silica and silicon do not. The way i read that “derived from” to me means it was potassium silicate which has been broken down (maybe with acid or other chemical/temp process) into silicon dioxide and mono silicic acid which both ph neutral if I remember correctly

So in my mind it has next to no buffering capacity but is extremely available for uptake unlike potassium silicate which is minimally available as it breaks down
 
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that plant needs nothing but time.
I thought she was looking pretty good. Those lower little sprouts grew in quite a bit today.
Since this is your first run with this plumbing, is it possible you have any contamination that could effect water chemistry?
I wouldn't think so but there's a chance. I ran only RO for a month or so. Then before adding the first seed, I bleached and cleaned with peroxide. I think you've been here since. I'll snake the return with a rag whenever I do a res change and see what comes out.
Next time you clean your PH probe, can you see if the stuff on there grows if you feed it? Like a home made Petri dish? I'm assuming no microscope.
I'll try to do something like that. What do I feed it? My nute list is on the first page of the thread.
Since you already adjusted PH, lets look again tomorrow and see the trend. If down again, I'm recommending we add Agsil. This is best done outside the res, I think we talked about this?
I'll mix up a solution of Agsil. I'll mix 4 grams into 500ml of water. Is that diluted enough? What's the shelf life on that? I'd like to just have it on hand, considering it takes a while to activate.
 
Root growth has been exceptional from what I can see. I only lift the lid for a second or two but the danglers have doubled in number every day.

Also.. she's turned a full 90 degrees since she really took off. Pretty coo
 
This is going to be a great grow.

I'm finding myself having difficulty keeping up with all the threads. I'm going to try, but please feel free to tag me in or PM me if you have a question and I am not responding. I logged in this morning to 47 on my bell, and a bunch of PMs. I love it!

@Aqua Man is also a huge resource here, he has probably forgotten more than I know. He had a big hand in training me up.
How to catch the deluge in a paper cup? *** from don't dream its over. There were some crazy posters on that old site, certainly we've not seen them (yet) but I don't know what kind of traffic generating tips you should use or even if you want them. I like having all the outdoor grows together w/o having to follow individually. So far so good captain...
 
Great notes helps a lot.

Everything looks really good to me on the plant last pic you posted. But here is where things get a little weird. There is more than one way to grow hydro.

Smoke grows trees and never gets much higher in PPM than where you are now. But have you seen his plants? They aren't lacking anything but some hedge trimmers to knock them down to 6' so you don't need a ladder to work on them.

GH will recommend as much as 1200PPM at this stage.

I have tried very high PPMs. More often than not, I mess something up on some plant especially when running multi strains. Usually a burn situation is the result if you have problems that high.

I've had strains that show stress on low PPMs. I tried for a bit to run 250PPM in flower on this grow and I adjusted back up to the 500 range based on what the plants were displaying. It did cause lots of color.

PH will be less stable at lower PPMs. But I've still never had troubles keeping it in the zone with my system. It's not very different than yours.

So lets figure out what these plants and this system needs to be optimized. First - you were at 250 PPM 2 days ago. What are you now? Are you tracking if any water is being consumed?
I like to mention to people that less really is more imo. My last grow i never got above 460 ppm on the 700 scale here i am on day 45 of flower
20230204_095341.jpg20230203_124949.jpg

A idea might be how low can we go?

Try it you might like it. And moes plant didn't mind the 250 ppms, i think it just scared @Moe.Red ... lol

Edit to add chart 20230531_203643.jpg
 
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Well I attempted to top her after reading your comment about topping twice, then FIM. Maybe I didn't cut low enough? I tried to leave the stipules untouched.
I do that process in preparation for a scrog. Otherwise it’s kind of a to each his own kind of thing. Removing seventy five percent out of the middle when you are fimming allows even light. 🙂
 
Can you cover it over with Panda film? I'm assuming this is the part your pot sits in?
I'm not sure what panda film is..

That top part is plywood screwed to the lid of the tote. I cut most of the lid away and flex sealed the shit out of it. I believe the moisture is getting between the lid and the plywood.

I can get a new lid, may even have an extra laying around, but they didn't block the like worth a damn.20230415_152940.jpg
 
I'm prepping for a 3'x3' scrog. Wish me luck!
Then you are on the right track! I’m setting one Friday for a five by five one plant scrog. Tear down tomorrow, cleaning and then resetting on Friday. Follow along if you wish, I will be showing how to lollypop, prep and place the scrog top.
 
Then you are on the right track! I’m setting one Friday for a five by five one plant scrog. Tear down tomorrow, cleaning and then resetting on Friday. Follow along if you wish, I will be showing how to lollypop, prep and place the scrog top.
I will most definitely be following along.👍
 
I'm not sure what panda film is..

That top part is plywood screwed to the lid of the tote. I cut most of the lid away and flex sealed the shit out of it. I believe the moisture is getting between the lid and the plywood.

I can get a new lid, may even have an extra laying around, but they didn't block the like worth a damn.View attachment 5175

How strong will it need to be? How much weight will it end up supporting? What size? Would a large upside down saucer work like the thick Mondi ones? 20” is the largest I have.

People make those plastic bucket grows so we can find something reasonable I’m sure.

Hard insulating foam, aluminum serving tray, dollar store items, Home Depot, always options.
 
How strong will it need to be? How much weight will it end up supporting? What size? Would a large upside down saucer work like the thick Mondi ones? 20” is the largest I have.

People make those plastic bucket grows so we can find something reasonable I’m sure.

Hard insulating foam, aluminum serving tray, dollar store items, Home Depot, always options.
I like the serving tray idea. I imagine it's gonna need to be relatively stout. I don't know how big this plant will be in the end, though.

No Home Depot around here. Gotta drive nearly an hour. We do have a couple smaller hardware stores. I'll cruise around Walmart and see what I can find as far as serving trays. Those should work out, having a small lip will come in handy.
 
I'm not sure what panda film is..

That top part is plywood screwed to the lid of the tote. I cut most of the lid away and flex sealed the shit out of it. I believe the moisture is getting between the lid and the plywood.

I can get a new lid, may even have an extra laying around, but they didn't block the like worth a damn.View attachment 5175
OK...better.....Yeah..now I see what you mean and, yes, I think you're right. Moisture is pushing up the net pot and the lid is sealing it in and holding moisture in between.

Panda Film is a plastic film with one side white and one side black.

Is the plywood on the bottom side of the lid unfinished? I'm thinking you wrap the entire lid in plastic and use some sort of O-ring to seal off whatever moisture is coming up through the pot.

Do you have airstones inside each bucket?
 
OK...better.....Yeah..now I see what you mean and, yes, I think you're right. Moisture is pushing up the net pot and the lid is sealing it in and holding moisture in between.

Panda Film is a plastic film with one side white and one side black.

Is the plywood on the bottom side of the lid unfinished? I'm thinking you wrap the entire lid in plastic and use some sort of O-ring to seal off whatever moisture is coming up through the pot.

Do you have airstones inside each bucket?
The whole piece of plywood got spray sealed with a can of FlexSeal. But I sprayed it after I attached the lid, so I'm thinking I just didn't get it sealed well enough in the crevice.

I'm thinking my easiest bet is gonna be to find a whole new piece of something, put a hole innit for the netpot and swap em out. That'll keep the roots in the wet dark as long as possible. Zen mention led a serving tray. I like that idea if I can find one big enough.
 
The whole piece of plywood got spray sealed with a can of FlexSeal. But I sprayed it after I attached the lid, so I'm thinking I just didn't get it sealed well enough in the crevice.

I'm thinking my easiest bet is gonna be to find a whole new piece of something, put a hole innit for the netpot and swap em out. That'll keep the roots in the wet dark as long as possible. Zen mention led a serving tray. I like that idea if I can find one big enough.
Is the issue moisture getting in between the plywood and the original plastic lid?
 
Yeah but that happens over time and mono silicic acid does not act as an alkaline ph buffer.

Silicate does but silica and silicon do not. The way i read that “derived from” to me means it was potassium silicate which has been broken down (maybe with acid or other chemical/temp process) into silicon dioxide and mono silicic acid which both ph neutral if I remember correctly

So in my mind it has next to no buffering capacity but is extremely available for uptake unlike potassium silicate which is minimally available as it breaks down
I think this is worth fleshing out. We can take this to your PH thread if you like.

First, Potassium Silicates such as AgSil 16H:

Do potassium silicates contain “less available” silicon?​

When you dissolve a potassium silicate at high concentration, it forms silicate oligomers. These are large silicon chains that get stabilized in basic solutions because of their high negative charge. This is why you can create highly concentrated potassium silicate solutions in basic pH. As a matter of fact, making the solutions more basic with added potassium hydroxide often enhances the solubility of potassium silicate solids like AgSil16H (see here for a procedure on how to do this). However, when the molar concentration decreases the silicate hydrolyzes into monomeric silicate anions.

Original background image taken from here. To create a monomeric solution you need high pH and low concentration. Then you lower the pH to get to monosilicic acid.
When potassium silicate is diluted in nutrient solutions, this is exactly what happens. The reduction in concentration hydrolyzes the Silicates into monomers. If the solution pH is then lowered, the final form present will be monosilicic acid. If you properly prepare a nutrient solution with potassium silicate, the end form will be monosilicic acid, the form that is mostly available to plants.

It is a misconception that potassium silicates are somehow less “plant available”. They end up producing monosilicic acid and being perfectly available, when used properly.
OK, so what.

Concentrated soluble potassium silicate has a pH of 12.7, which increases the pH

PH Down, when used in conjunction does in fact produce mono-silicic acid as a byproduct which is beneficial to the plant and readily available for uptake. This is the stuff that helps with strength primarily in cell walls.
I'm taking bits and pieces from several spots here, but it is all pretty well fleshed out

and across several other blog posts and videos. If you have a few hours to spend, it's a really great place to spend it.

This is the author:
My name is Dr. Daniel Fernandez. I have a bachelor’s degree in chemistry and a masters and Ph.D. in nanoscience and nanotechnology. I have a strong interest in plants and hydroponic crops.

And he goes on to show how to set up the best buffer with the cheapest inputs and Agsil 16H is on the very top of every list he has.

I personally have not used it yet, I'm still working thru another PS product. When I run out I am switching to Agsil.

So, bottom line, put in the Agsil to the RO water (not in your res unless just starting out) which will send the PH way high.

Let it stir for 24 hours.

Add in PH down to get you to 5.8

You now have both an impressive buffer and plant available silicon. At least according to the good doctor. He seems pretty credible to me at least.
 
I think this is worth fleshing out. We can take this to your PH thread if you like.

First, Potassium Silicates such as AgSil 16H:

Do potassium silicates contain “less available” silicon?​

When you dissolve a potassium silicate at high concentration, it forms silicate oligomers. These are large silicon chains that get stabilized in basic solutions because of their high negative charge. This is why you can create highly concentrated potassium silicate solutions in basic pH. As a matter of fact, making the solutions more basic with added potassium hydroxide often enhances the solubility of potassium silicate solids like AgSil16H (see here for a procedure on how to do this). However, when the molar concentration decreases the silicate hydrolyzes into monomeric silicate anions.

Original background image taken from here. To create a monomeric solution you need high pH and low concentration. Then you lower the pH to get to monosilicic acid.
When potassium silicate is diluted in nutrient solutions, this is exactly what happens. The reduction in concentration hydrolyzes the Silicates into monomers. If the solution pH is then lowered, the final form present will be monosilicic acid. If you properly prepare a nutrient solution with potassium silicate, the end form will be monosilicic acid, the form that is mostly available to plants.

It is a misconception that potassium silicates are somehow less “plant available”. They end up producing monosilicic acid and being perfectly available, when used properly.
OK, so what.

Concentrated soluble potassium silicate has a pH of 12.7, which increases the pH

PH Down, when used in conjunction does in fact produce mono-silicic acid as a byproduct which is beneficial to the plant and readily available for uptake. This is the stuff that helps with strength primarily in cell walls.
I'm taking bits and pieces from several spots here, but it is all pretty well fleshed out

and across several other blog posts and videos. If you have a few hours to spend, it's a really great place to spend it.

This is the author:
My name is Dr. Daniel Fernandez. I have a bachelor’s degree in chemistry and a masters and Ph.D. in nanoscience and nanotechnology. I have a strong interest in plants and hydroponic crops.

And he goes on to show how to set up the best buffer with the cheapest inputs and Agsil 16H is on the very top of every list he has.

I personally have not used it yet, I'm still working thru another PS product. When I run out I am switching to Agsil.

So, bottom line, put in the Agsil to the RO water (not in your res unless just starting out) which will send the PH way high.

Let it stir for 24 hours.

Add in PH down to get you to 5.8

You now have both an impressive buffer and plant available silicon. At least according to the good doctor. He seems pretty credible to me at least.
But agsil is already in highly available form or am I mistaken. I see it kinda like adding dolomite lime vs quick lime… same basic ingredients but different forms.

I guess the question is how much is converted to available forms and over what time period. I have used both potassium silicate and silicon dioxide and i can say from experience one greatly effects buffering capacity while the other does not.

I agree those reactions take place just unsure of the speed at which they happen
 
But agsil is already in highly available form or am I mistaken. I see it kinda like adding dolomite lime vs quick lime… same basic ingredients but different forms.

I guess the question is how much is converted to available forms and over what time period. I have used both potassium silicate and silicon dioxide and i can say from experience one greatly effects buffering capacity while the other does not.

I agree those reactions take place just unsure of the speed at which they happen
Lemme know if I need a new buffer when ya'll get this hashed out 🤣

Edit: could the rot I'm finding in my plywood lid have an affect on pH? I discovered it later last night after you got me wondering about foreign contaminants.
 
But agsil is already in highly available form or am I mistaken. I see it kinda like adding dolomite lime vs quick lime… same basic ingredients but different forms.

I guess the question is how much is converted to available forms and over what time period. I have used both potassium silicate and silicon dioxide and i can say from experience one greatly effects buffering capacity while the other does not.

I agree those reactions take place just unsure of the speed at which they happen
He does answer all that but like I said you gotta put the time in. It’s not one paragraph I can paste in here.

I’m really interested in this topic tho. Not sure if it was Einstein who said if you cannot explain it to a layperson you don’t really have mastery of the subject. I guess that’s where I am at.

I first started using pot sil years ago based on your recommendation lol. I just don’t see ph issues. I’ll get some more info and come back I can do a little bench test I think I have hardness test strips and such.

My concern has been too much P causing burn not buffer issues.
 
I doubt it. But not certain.
Ok so hear me out..

When I initially added the Agsil, I went by your recommendation on some thread I'm not remembering. Either way, I made the recommended solution, but it only brought my pH up into the 7's intead of around 9. Maybe I didn't start with enough?
 
Ok so hear me out..

When I initially added the Agsil, I went by your recommendation on some thread I'm not remembering. Either way, I made the recommended solution, but it only brought my pH up into the 7's intead of around 9. Maybe I didn't start with enough?
I agree with this.

My PH when I start my initial res with just RO and Pot Sil goes over 10.

I just started a post on AMan's PH thread to flesh this out with the chemistry and come up with a good answer we agree on and I can verify on the bench. My guess is that it is somewhere in the middle of where we both sit today. The chemistry is a little obtuse, so rather than fill your thread up I'll hash it out over there and come back with a recommendation.
 
I agree with this.

My PH when I start my initial res with just RO and Pot Sil goes over 10.

I just started a post on AMan's PH thread to flesh this out with the chemistry and come up with a good answer we agree on and I can verify on the bench. My guess is that it is somewhere in the middle of where we both sit today. The chemistry is a little obtuse, so rather than fill your thread up I'll hash it out over there and come back with a recommendation.
Cool man. You guys are awesome. Keep up the good work 👍
 
He does answer all that but like I said you gotta put the time in. It’s not one paragraph I can paste in here.

I’m really interested in this topic tho. Not sure if it was Einstein who said if you cannot explain it to a layperson you don’t really have mastery of the subject. I guess that’s where I am at.

I first started using pot sil years ago based on your recommendation lol. I just don’t see ph issues. I’ll get some more info and come back I can do a little bench test I think I have hardness test strips and such.

My concern has been too much P causing burn not buffer issues.
Yeah thats where im at also… used both but the exact process of how it breaks down im ignorant about… ill try to find some time this weekend to ait down and read that brother. Great topic and made me realize i need some more information on this
 
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