Growing with Amnesia

[Amnesia]

I won't be able to resist making plays on words with my screen name. The name of this thread is only the beginning. Beware!

I'm going to start in the middle of two grows. The beginnings are out there, lost in cyberspace, somewhere. "Lost in Cyberspace" sounds like a good name for a goofy TV series. Hmmm...

I have two grows in two tents—and I have pictures!

In tent number one, a 2'x'4' tent, are two big Black Jack plants. These plants are 125 days since they saw their first soil and 23 days past the flip. They were recently fed their mid-flower mix (5t GGAP, 15t GGPB, 1t Mg, 1t Ca, 2t Azomite). They both seem to be happily living The Good Life.

Plant number one is a beast.



Plant number two is a mutant.



In tent number two, a 28"x28" tent, are three Amnesia Haze, the inspiration for my name here. The two larger ones are 71 days since they found their first soil. At their next watering, which might be tomorrow, I plan to give them their pre-flower mix (1t Mg, 1t Ca, 2t Azomite, 7t GGAP, 7t GGPB).

Plant number one was topped normally above the fifth node. It is 24" tall and 18" from the light.



Plant number two was not topped. I didn't top it because it has always been smaller than the other plant. I was also curious to see how it would grow normally. I'll remove those large fan leaves near the top when it's watered.



Finally, we have my very first successful clone. It decided to grow roots despite me doing everything wrong. It's the top from Amnesia Haze number one. I just moved it from its first pot yesterday. It probably needs to go outside because I'll flip this tent in about a week. The girl is looking good, though, and didn't have any problem with the transplant. She's in a soil mix of 1:1 reused soil and FFOF, mixed 4:1 with EWC, then with perlite and rice hulls added till it looked good. There's also one gallon's worth of Gaia Green All Purpose, Epsom Salts, Gypsum and Azomite.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Nice.

Like the cable hanger too. Not a fan of the Amazon box, at least make it smile.

I used crates but I’m guess that’s what you had that was the right hight and convenient?

 

[Amnesia]

Nice.

Thanks. I'm starting to figure out how to do this growing in tents thing. I still have learning to do, but I'm getting there. We're really looking forward to harvesting those Black Jack plants. We lost our first crop to spider mites last summer.

Like the cable hanger too.

Do you mean the hook and clothes pin thing? I found those on Amazon. They work well for hanging things from the top of the tent. I also use them to hold the tent flat open.

Not a fan of the Amazon box, at least make it smile.

I used crates but I’m guess that’s what you had that was the right hight and convenient?

Maybe I'll flip the sad box for you when I do my next grow. I have a stack of boxes for adjusting the height. Someday, someone will invent a better method.

 

[MysticEpipedon]

Are we talking I-don't-know-who-I-am amnesia or the guy from Momento amnesia?

 

[moe.red]

Lost in cyberspace would be a good strain name.

 

[Amnesia]

Lost in cyberspace would be a good strain name.

It's my gift to the world.

 

[Amnesia]

Are we talking I-don't-know-who-I-am amnesia or the guy from Momento amnesia?

Take your pick. There is a third option, though.

 

[Amnesia]

Gnats! Gnats! Damn those gnats!

Thought I'd share this...



Look! Up in the light! It's a bird!
No. It's a bat. A bat that looks like a bird.
I don't care what it is if it gets rid of the gnats.

These clips have been wonderfully useful in and around the tent. I just hooked this between the fins of the light's heat sink. (It doesn't get warm enough to matter.) We've also used them in closets and on shower curtains. They're made of what seems to be durable plastic and they have a good strong spring.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QW3B344

 

[steamroller]

One drench with mosquito bits will be the end of the gnats if you are early enough.

I always keep the stickies up throughout the grow. They work two fold; as an alarm and weapon.
But they only catch the gnats already leaving the soil, not the ones still developing in it.

 

[stonemason]

Grow looks great.beneficial nematodes and sticky traps got rid of my fungus gnats.

 

[smoke]

One drench with mosquito bits will be the end of the gnats if you are early enough.

I always keep the stickies up throughout the grow. They work two fold; as an alarm and weapon.
But they only catch the gnats already leaving the soil, not the ones still developing in it.

The question will come up with hydro grows, i used

 

[Rootsruler]

Check to make sure the positioning of your traps doesn't block light to your girls.

 

[Amnesia]

Check to make sure the positioning of your traps doesn't block light to your girls.

I must admit that I moved it after I took the picture. I remembered that the traps seem to work better closer to the soil. I can always turn up the light, if necessary. It's only set to 37.5% (or 90/240 watts).

 

[Amnesia]

Grow looks great.beneficial nematodes and sticky traps got rid of my fungus gnats.

Good to know. I haven't added beneficial microorganisms to this grow because I only recently learned about them. I've added Great White to my collection and will use it in the future.

 

[Rootsruler]

I like to amend the hole I'm up potting into for their final home with some mycorrhizae from Xtreme Gardening.

I use Roots Organic Original soil that already has some mycorrhizae in it but I supplement with more as my base soil then amend upon up pot.

 

[stonemason]

Good to know. I haven't added beneficial microorganisms to this grow because I only recently learned about them. I've added Great White to my collection and will use it in the future.

The nematodes are actualy a tiny tiny worm that feeds on the larvae in the roots.microbes are good too ,but they don't do much for gnats.i ordered the nematodes online same place I get my predator mites.natures good guys I think it's called.

 

[Amnesia]

I like to amend the hole I'm up potting into for their final home with some mycorrhizae from Xtreme Gardening.

I use Roots Organic Original soil that already has some mycorrhizae in it but I supplement with more as my base soil then amend upon up pot.

I have some mycorrhizae from Xtreme Gardening ready for the next time I transplant. The plants with the gnats are four weeks from the flip, so I don't know how much I need to worry about them. Those yellow sticky things do a fairly good job.

 

[Amnesia]

The nematodes are actualy a tiny tiny worm that feeds on the larvae in the roots.microbes are good too ,but they don't do much for gnats.i ordered the nematodes online same place I get my predator mites.natures good guys I think it's called.

Good to know. I was thinking Great White had nematodes, but I just checked, and I didn't see that it does. Apparently, Mykos also doesn't. My mistake.

 

[Rootsruler]

Good to know. I was thinking Great White had nematodes, but I just checked, and I didn't see that it does. Apparently, Mykos also doesn't. My mistake.

I usually use a 2 step approach to gnats. You have fliers and newborn. That's step one. For these I hang a sticky trap or two over the canopy to attract any fliers. I try and place it/them away from the lights so that I don't cast a shadow over part of the canopy. I also cut up the sticky trap sheets I use into smaller traps and will hang them on a stick, like a popsicle stick, and stick them in the soil in the pot to catch any newly born.

The second step is to do a soil drench. I use a diluted solution of Azamax and give the pots a good drench. This usually eliminates the problem for the rest of the grow but to be proactive I try and be religious in my drybacks to prevent them from getting a foothold.

 

[Amnesia]

For the Black Jack plants, it's week 5, day 1 since the flip.

Yesterday, we had our first sighting of amber pistils. There were just a few and they'd be hard to see in this image. This picture is a better view of how the plants are doing. To my eyes, they look like they're going to finish well.

Instead of chopping the whole plant at once, I'm thinking of harvesting the tops when they're ready and letting lower buds ripen. Many crops don't ripen all at once. So, I wonder if cannabis is similar and thinking it might be worth a try. So far, these plants have been easy to grow and quite forgiving. I'm not in a hurry.

 

[Rootsruler]

For the Black Jack plants, it's week 5, day 1 since the flip.

Yesterday, we had our first sighting of amber pistils. There were just a few and they'd be hard to see in this image. This picture is a better view of how the plants are doing. To my eyes, they look like they're going to finish well.

Instead of chopping the whole plant at once, I'm thinking of harvesting the tops when they're ready and letting lower buds ripen. Many crops don't ripen all at once. So, I wonder if cannabis is similar and thinking it might be worth a try. So far, these plants have been easy to grow and quite forgiving. I'm not in a hurry.

View attachment 7586

Curious to see your results.

 

[smoke]

For the Black Jack plants, it's week 5, day 1 since the flip.

Yesterday, we had our first sighting of amber pistils. There were just a few and they'd be hard to see in this image. This picture is a better view of how the plants are doing. To my eyes, they look like they're going to finish well.

Instead of chopping the whole plant at once, I'm thinking of harvesting the tops when they're ready and letting lower buds ripen. Many crops don't ripen all at once. So, I wonder if cannabis is similar and thinking it might be worth a try. So far, these plants have been easy to grow and quite forgiving. I'm not in a hurry.

View attachment 7586

Did partial harvest on 2 of my plants grow. Ive now done it twice, my first and last times

 

[Amnesia]

Did partial harvest on 2 of my plants grow. Ive now done it twice, my first and last times

I haven't thought of a reason it wouldn't work if the plant weren't overly stressed. It would probably direct more light and plant energy to the unripe buds.

Nice setup, by the way. I'm sure I'll never be that elaborate, but I'd like to find a fan hood for the lights I have. I'd think it would be about the best place to pull heat out of the room or tent.

 

[Amnesia]

I try to post an update to my grow diary about once a week. Here's what's been happening this past week.

All the plants are growing well. I'm not seeing any indications of deficiencies. I lowered the light intensity slightly. The Black Jack tent is in 12/12 mode and the Amnesia Haze tent is in 18/6 mode.

When I added a smaller tent, my plan was to use it to start and veg plants while the bigger tent was in flower mode. Then, after harvesting the big tent, I planned to move the vegging plants into that tent. That plan hasn't worked to this point because the plants grew slowly at first. (I'm working on that issue.)

Now, the Black Jack plants are in week five of flowering in the big tent and the Amnesia Haze plants are still vegging in the small tent. The problem is the vegging plants won't have enough room to stretch if I flip them in the smaller tent. So, I'm thinking about keeping them in veg till the other plants are harvested. That'll be in 4 to 6 weeks.

For that plan to work, I'll need to top the Amnesia Haze. I topped the smaller of the two for the first time a few days ago. That's okay, because I had planned to try topping higher than the fifth node, as suggested by GNick55 in a forum far, far away. The Amnesia Haze are growing like the sativa-dominant plants that they are, so slow growth and a long flowering period is expected. They look healthy and probably could grow much bigger. The taller plant is 14 inches from the light. The smaller plant hasn't begun alternating branches yet.

Black Jack Pictures:

Top View:


Side View:


Amnesia Haze Plants:

Top View:


Side View:


Sensor Data:

 

[elusive]

With the thread title, I thought this was gonna be like “50 first tokes”

 

[Rootsruler]

On my next run I'm going to run 9 clones in gallon pots in my 2 x 2 with the VS1500 I won at the farm. I'll probably flip once they're around 8" - 10" tall.

I want to see if early flip yields better quality colas along with seeing how much I can yield out of that small space.

 

[Amnesia]

With the thread title, I thought this was gonna be like “50 first tokes”

I changed my ID from BigBlonde when I left that other forum and joined this one. I borrowed my new ID from the Amnesia Haze plants I'm growing. It seemed appropriate. I'm sure I won't be able to resist making plays on words with it.

 

[Amnesia]

On my next run I'm going to run 9 clones in gallon pots in my 2 x 2 with the VS1500 I won at the farm. I'll probably flip once they're around 8" - 10" tall.

I want to see if early flip yields better quality colas along with seeing how much I can yield out of that small space.

I know I can't learn everything at once. Gaining a better understanding of when to flip is on my list of things to learn. I think I tend to wait too long, but I also want a plant that's healthy and ready when it's flipped. A lot of what we learn sure seems to come from going through growing the plants from start to finish. I'd say understanding the timing of the plant's stages of growth must be high on that list of things that are best gained from experience.

 

[Rootsruler]

I know I can't learn everything at once. Gaining a better understanding of when to flip is on my list of things to learn. I think I tend to wait too long, but I also want a plant that's healthy and ready when it's flipped. A lot of what we learn sure seems to come from going through growing the plants from start to finish. I'd say understanding the timing of the plant's stages of growth must be high on that list of things that are best gained from experience.

Agreed. I always try and see a silver lining to every situation I may encounter. When I got banned from the farm I was in the middle of doing a diary for the VS1500. The plants were taken from outside that I had extra of from a clone run I did. I had prematurely moved them outside thinking that the days were going to get longer only to find them flowering a week later. I took the two best and did a thorough inspection for any pest or disease and sprayed them down with an insecticidal soap solution I had made up and put them into quarantine. After they passed I just continued flowering them. I really liked the flower formation in the 2 x 2 and was able to compare it to the same genetics that I had in the bigger tent where the genetics had been flipped at a more mature state.

Got me thinking. These plants are annuals. That means they have a finite time of existence once they go through their entire growth process. Like humans they have a period of high growth. In humans it's as we go from infant to teenager through puberty. What would happen if I start flowering as they are increasing in growth hormones rather than when they've matured and either leveled out or are seeing a decline in their growth hormones?

Could be complete bunk or could be genius. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Amnesia]

What would happen if I start flowering as they are increasing in growth hormones rather than when they've matured and either leveled out or are seeing a decline in their growth hormones?

Stretching and bud development are specialized forms of growth and thus may have specialized growth hormones unless something other than the hormones signal these types of growth, which I doubt. My guess would be that specialized hormones are the signals because hormones are essentially chemical messengers. There may even be a possibility that there could be a conflict. I've read that pre-flowering is the best time to flip. If true, then that might be an indicator of the types of chemical messengers that need to be present. Plants are adaptable, though...

 

[Rootsruler]

Stretching and bud development are specialized forms of growth and thus may have specialized growth hormones unless something other than the hormones signal these types of growth, which I doubt. My guess would be that specialized hormones are the signals because hormones are essentially chemical messengers. There may even be a possibility that there could be a conflict. I've read that pre-flowering is the best time to flip. If true, then that might be an indicator of the types of chemical messengers that need to be present. Plants are adaptable, though...

I'm thinking in terms of the quality of that growth and all the processes that are happening in that stage. When we are young we can bounce back and recover quickly. As we get older our regenerative functions decline. I'm trying to catch it in the young stage as those growth hormones are still on the increase and can regenerate fully and quickly.

Again, zero plant science validity but just a hunch I'm going to try out.

 

[Amnesia]

I'm thinking in terms of the quality of that growth and all the processes that are happening in that stage. When we are young we can bounce back and recover quickly. As we get older our regenerative functions decline. I'm trying to catch it in the young stage as those growth hormones are still on the increase and can regenerate fully and quickly.

I understand. I was young once. We know that plants have stages of life. We do too.

Perhaps the best time to flip might be when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage. Arguably, human females are best prepared for reproduction after they complete physical maturity. Both plants and humans can reproduce before then, but I know that for humans, reproduction before the body is ready might not go well. I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from experimenting, though. Plants are much more adaptable than humans, which may be where comparability ends.

 

[Shaded]

Now you just gotta get in that habit of removing the lower 30% of branches/nodes to really force that energy to be spent on the upper buds!

Lovely looking plants @Amnesia

 

[Rootsruler]

I understand. I was young once. We know that plants have stages of life. We do too.

Perhaps the best time to flip might be when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage.

How would one be able to quantify "when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage"? In your other thread about seedling media we ran into the same issue. Where is the discernable line that signals this stage? Because there is no signal that I can point to I can only use the plants height or time in veg as a marker/threshold.

Of course this is more a generaliazation since the optimal time to flip depends on the genetics of the plant. For example, I was sent 3 clones from a friend. 2 of them responded normally in regards to growth performance. The 3rd didn't. I assumed that it was probably due to shock and the plant stunted. This went on for some time and I worried that I had done something wrong. A week or so later the plant took off and resumed normal growth patterns. In this case I would need to wait for the plant to reach a particular point that I felt was a good time to flip and catch it still in its high growth stage now that I have a better understanding of the growth characteristics of that particular cultivar.

Arguably, human females are best prepared for reproduction after they complete physical maturity.

This is where plant and human reproduction fork off. Cannabis uses photoperiodism to trigger the change in hormonal response to reproduction so at any point in the vegetative stage cannabis can be induced to reproduce(flower). This means the plant doesn't need to reach a particular time frame/level of maturity or height to be ready to reproduce. It is ready when the photoperiod changes to signal flowering. Sea of Green method corroborates this.

 

[Amnesia]

Now you just gotta get in that habit of removing the lower 30% of branches/nodes to really force that energy to be spent on the upper buds!

You're right about that, of course. I have a habit of compartmentalizing my learning and hadn't stepped far into that realm yet. I was just thinking about it this morning, though, as I was removing a few fan leaves from the Black Jacks. They're halfway through week 5 since the flip, so, maybe it would be best to just let them finish. I'm thinking we might harvest in late July.

Lovely looking plants @Amnesia

Thank you! We're feeling much better about both crops. They both started slowly and needed a lot of nurturing early. They responded well to the Gaia Green regimen that we began about mid vegetation.

 

[Shaded]

You're right about that, of course. I have a habit of compartmentalizing my learning and hadn't stepped far into that realm yet. I was just thinking about it this morning, though, as I was removing a few fan leaves from the Black Jacks. They're halfway through week 5 since the flip, so, maybe it would be best to just let them finish. I'm thinking we might harvest in late July.


Thank you! We're feeling much better about both crops. They both started slowly and needed a lot of nurturing early. They responded well to the Gaia Green regimen that we began about mid vegetation.

Yep I usually don't touch my plants or induce any stress after week 3 of flower

Things you can start to incorporate into future grows if you so desire!

 

[Amnesia]

How would one be able to quantify "when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage"? In your other thread about seedling media we ran into the same issue. Where is the discernable line that signals this stage? Because there is no signal that I can point to I can only use the plants height or time in veg as a marker/threshold.

There are indicators. Labeling them seemed to be part of the problem. Start with what we know.

We know, or have accepted as being fact, that a plant does not need nutrition for its first few weeks of life. That means there's a point at which it does need nutrition. We may not be able to precisely identify that point, but we know it exists. Of course, it probably isn't reducible to a specific moment in time. More likely, it occurs during a span of days. Nevertheless, we know it happens. Before it happens, the word "seedling" seems to be a good label. After it happens, "vegetation" similarly seems adequate for most purposes.

We know, or have accepted as being fact, that at some point, leaf phyllotaxy changes from opposite decussate to alternate spiral. The latter is thought to indicate the plant's readiness or increasing preparedness for flowering. (Source: Understanding and using cannabis leaves.)

Those are two examples of observable indicators of a plant's stage of development. There are more. Pre-flowers may be an important one. I've read that many growers consider the best time to flip to be when pre-flowers are present.

 

[Amnesia]

Yep I usually don't touch my plants or induce any stress after week 3 of flower

That's mostly my thinking. I think what we may want to consider is how much plant stress is desirable versus undesirable. Some stress can cause plants to put more resources into fruit production. I've also read that some growers induce stress to generate the production of anthocyanins for the purpose of increasing bag appeal.

Things you can start to incorporate into future grows if you so desire!

Oh, I'll get there. It will be easier to refine my techniques as I get past the bigger challenges. My main goal at present is to gain experience. I have my third and fourth grows in tents now.

 

[Amnesia]

Cannabis uses photoperiodism to trigger the change in hormonal response to reproduction so at any point in the vegetative stage cannabis can be induced to reproduce(flower).

If that were entirely true, how does the plant know to begin pre-flower mode without any changes to the lighting? They do that, you know. I have some in a tent now that are showing pre-flower structures, but the light hasn't changed. So, sure, changing the light is a trigger. But is it the only trigger? I contend that it isn't.

From an evolutionary perspective, photoperiodism is likely an adaptation to changing seasons. I would agree that that's true for plants that evolved where there are seasons. Then there are plants that evolved near the equator. My understanding is that the only change is in the direction of sunlight, not the periodicity of sunlight. Lacking photoperiodicity, those plants must use some other mechanism.

 

[Amnesia]

My latest acquisition from AC Infinity arrived today. These are for the 28"x28" tent.