smoke

[smoke]

Anthem, doser is set at 9 sec. Setting at 9 which means about 2ml is added then the wait period.

But its not that because the auto doser was set to add ph up at 5.5

I have moved the 4 af1 over to the flower room today.
Ro water was at 40 ppm
Buffered, it sat at 80ppm
Add 220 ppm calmag, sitting at 300ppm
Add 40ml , 40ml, 40ml green brn pink, ppm sitting at 400

Some browning of roots, they smell fine

4 af1 moved to flower room

 

[moe.red]

Hi mrs smoke.

Mr smoke I think the brown on the roots is a bit much. Especially at the top like that. That is for sure a colony developing. Question in your system is what colony.

I’ve put a lot of thought into your system. For me it’s still a big ole question as to how you consistently get away with the neither sterile or live method.

I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is my opinion that adding chlorine or H2O2 would cause the brown at the top to vanish over time and the roots to take on a common more dark appearance all the way to the tips. It will impact your PH stability (probably more stable) if you are not building a colony, them eating and releasing CO2 = Carbonic Acid = Acidification.

But that does not explain your current situation because you are trending basic not acidic.

I understand your dosing and agree it is not the issue unless it is malfunctioning. Maybe draw a line on the bottle to make sure it is not using any PH Up.

I said earlier that I think the plants are doing this. The more I dive into the mysteries of the rhizosphere (I read a textbook on the plane this week that was enlightening) the more I realize just how complex the chemistry is there. For example, I finally realized that I do not have a way to measure the buffering capacity of my res. Nutrients do contribute to buffer in complex ways.

That said I am probably about as close to a match with your setup and nute lineup as you are likely to find on any forum. Like you, I traditionally trend down in PH and within the grow only find myself using PH UP.

I THINK what that tells us is that you are very likely attracting a bacillus bacteria (along with the typical nitrifying bacterias) that is compatible with cannabis root health naturally. The only way these colonies grow is if you feed them.

The nitrifying bacterias like Nitrosomonas will become present in virtually any water like in aquarium whether you add them or not. They feed off decaying organics.

The bacillus we typically attribute as positive for RDWC tend to lower PH as described above. It could be you have something different this time?

It could also be that the plants are doing this. They can and do adjust PH directly based on need. They also send out significant carbs calling in bacteria. I'd be interested in a Brix reading if you have a meter.


To me, a PH that lowers slightly each day is a good sign. Going up would be enough of a change to make me watch this close.

Last thing, same nutes same grow style I have not been able to stabilize PH by adding more nutes without causing worse problems. You know where to run these plants in this system successfully. Little adjustments patience and vigilance is my advice. If you want to talk it thru you have my number and I'm doing cannabis stuff all weekend.

 

[Anthem275]

To me, a PH that lowers slightly each day is a good sign. Going up would be enough of a change to make me watch this close.

I have never had PH dropping ever expect when using epsom salt and fulvic at end of grows. I have had a neutral state before where I was using water and nutrients at the same rates allowing for PH to remain stable and not have any drift. For me PH going up has always been the standard. I am not sure how flood and drain verses RDWC changes the formula but if I had PH dropping something would be wrong for me. This has remained constant rather sterile or live. Additionally while there is documentation the plants can adjust the PH in the root zone those adjustments do not equate to PH swings in a rez with water moving like it would in a soil type rootzone.

 

[smoke]

I have never had PH dropping ever expect when using epsom salt and fulvic at end of grows. I have had a neutral state before where I was using water and nutrients at the same rates allowing for PH to remain stable and not have any drift. For me PH going up has always been the standard. I am not sure how flood and drain verses RDWC changes the formula but if I had PH dropping something would be wrong for me. This has remained constant rather sterile or live. Additionally while there is documentation the plants can adjust the PH in the root zone those adjustments do not equate to PH swings in a rez with water moving like it would in a soil type rootzone.

Ph dropping to me has always indicated to me that something is wrong. That's why i say rot is chasing me. Now looking at "the" chart above dosen't ph falling in your system indicates that they are eating well?

More often i am chasing a falling ph. This big spike and reverse to a rising these past few days.....thinking this probably was the calmag.

The chetta piss and the watermelon are becoming moms in the veg room, i plan to flip these around 40" tall or 10 more inches.

 

[smoke]

Mr smoke I think the brown on the roots is a bit much. Especially at the top like that. That is for sure a colony developing. Question in your system is what colony.

Yes too much for my liking this early. We'll see if it's good or bad for both groups. Veg plants and flower plants

I’ve put a lot of thought into your system. For me it’s still a big ole question as to how you consistently get away with the neither sterile or live method.

We'll see how fast i can run. Lol

I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is my opinion that adding chlorine or H2O2 would cause the brown at the top to vanish over time and the roots to take on a common more dark appearance all the way to the tips. It will impact your PH stability (probably more stable) if you are not building a colony, them eating and releasing CO2 = Carbonic Acid = Acidification.

But that does not explain your current situation because you are trending basic not acidic.

Im glad you didn't suggest.

I understand your dosing and agree it is not the issue unless it is malfunctioning. Maybe draw a line on the bottle to make sure it is not using any PH Up.

I guarantee you it's not the doser

That said I am probably about as close to a match with your setup and nute lineup as you are likely to find on any forum. Like you, I traditionally trend down in PH and within the grow only find myself using PH UP.

Yes, i would say you and i are about as normal/simple as they come. Edit: my system is definitely simple.

I THINK what that tells us is that you are very likely attracting a bacillus bacteria (along with the typical nitrifying bacterias) that is compatible with cannabis root health naturally. The only way these colonies grow is if you feed them

Edit: yes theres something going on that alows me to grow how i grow. But how and what am i feeding the good bacteria? The bad ?

The bacillus we typically attribute as positive for RDWC tend to lower PH as described above. It could be you have something different this time?

Edit: im leaning that it was caused by suddenly adding the 1ml to their feeding solution? My guess.
We'll see what goes on now in the flower room as they+t It could also be that the plants are doing this. They can and do adjust PH directly based on need. They also send out significant carbs calling in bacteria. I'd be interested in a Brix reading if you have a meter.
Sorry no brix meter, which one would you recommend?

To me, a PH that lowers slightly each day is a good sign. Going up would be enough of a change to make me watch this close.

Yep

Last thing, same nutes same grow style I have not been able to stabilize PH by adding more nutes without causing worse problems. You know where to run these plants in this system successfully. Little adjustments patience and vigilance is my advice. If you want to talk it thru you have my number and I'm doing cannabis stuff all weekend.

Thanks @Moe.Red for the offer to talk but i find these little things almost a challenge. They'll be fine aka weed mostly grows

 

[moe.red]

I have never had PH dropping ever expect when using epsom salt and fulvic at end of grows. I have had a neutral state before where I was using water and nutrients at the same rates allowing for PH to remain stable and not have any drift. For me PH going up has always been the standard. I am not sure how flood and drain verses RDWC changes the formula but if I had PH dropping something would be wrong for me. This has remained constant rather sterile or live. Additionally while there is documentation the plants can adjust the PH in the root zone those adjustments do not equate to PH swings in a rez with water moving like it would in a soil type rootzone.

Flood and drain changes things dramatically. Roots dangling in water 24x7 vs open to air for hours every day is not very similar to me.

And hard disagree that plants and the microbes they feed have no effect on res water.

 

[moe.red]

More often i am chasing a falling ph. This big spike and reverse to a rising these past few days.....thinking this probably was the calmag.

There is more to the story. Cal mag by itself will not cause the ph to rise more than the nute solution is at. There is some chemistry at work here. The only active participants that can cause a shift in chemistry are your plants and your microbes. Unless there is something else we are not aware of here.

 

[Anthem275]

Flood and drain changes things dramatically. Roots dangling in water 24x7 vs open to air for hours every day is not very similar to me.

And hard disagree that plants and the microbes they feed have no effect on res water.

I am sorry if you disagree that sterile vs live has no effect on PH of Rez but that one for me is a fact. I have done both ways and the PH rising remains the same and at approximately the same rate.

 

[Anthem275]

Ph dropping to me has always indicated to me that something is wrong. That's why i say rot is chasing me. Now looking at "the" chart above dosen't ph falling in your system indicates that they are eating well?

More often i am chasing a falling ph. This big spike and reverse to a rising these past few days.....thinking this probably was the calmag.

Smoke here is the chart I use for basic hydro problems



Not the term Acid Rain. I do not have this problem but you may want to look at it as a possible reason for PH falling

 

[Anthem275]

The only active participants that can cause a shift in chemistry are your plants and your microbes. Unless there is something else we are not aware of here.

There is also an additional factor in the air you guys are pumping into the water. Straight air also has CO2 which can create an acid rain effect in the rez.

 

[smoke]

Smoke here is the chart I use for basic hydro problems



Not the term Acid Rain. I do not have this problem but you may want to look at it as a possible reason for PH falling

@Anthem275 , the last 3 lines of that chart are all that concerns me the way i feed and also the way @Moe.Red feeds. Correct me if im wrong moe.

Ph is now rising in the veg again there's the chetta piss and watermelon gelato in the veg room to take clones from for next round

Flower room they ate 40ppms since yesterday and today brought them back up to 390 ppm. Ph rose overnight. Turned auto doser off and will adjust manually with ph down. This water was buffered10.5 and 5.5 and sat stable for 2 days


Top down view of watermelon

 

[Anthem275]

@Anthem275 , the last 3 lines of that chart are all that concerns me the way i feed and also the way @Moe.Red feeds. Correct me if im wrong moe.

Ph is now rising in the veg again there's the chetta piss and watermelon gelato in the veg room to take clones from for next round View attachment 14527

Flower room they ate 40ppms since yesterday and today brought them back up to 390 ppm. Ph rose overnight. Turned auto doser off and will adjust manually with ph down. This water was buffered10.5 and 5.5 and sat stable for 2 days
View attachment 14528

Top down view of watermelon

View attachment 14529

Smoke
Can you explain the 10.5 and 5.5 PH thing above. I do not understand it. With your system you are topping off with water of what PPM? Do You have a way to measure how much water you are adding to the system thru top offs?


Watermelon is still not happy happy.

 

[moe.red]

I am sorry if you disagree that sterile vs live has no effect on PH of Rez but that one for me is a fact. I have done both ways and the PH rising remains the same and at approximately the same rate.

You got plants in that flood and drain?

I'm sorry if you disagree that plants are part of the water chemistry in a measurable way. I for one have no doubt.

 

[moe.red]

There is also an additional factor in the air you guys are pumping into the water. Straight air also has CO2 which can create an acid rain effect in the rez.

The plants excrete more CO2 than the atmosphere can contribute

 

[Anthem275]

The plants excrete more CO2 than the atmosphere can contribute

Yes with lights off.

 

[Anthem275]

The plants excrete more CO2 than the atmosphere can contribute

Also this is in the rootzone

 

[Anthem275]

You got plants in that flood and drain?

I'm sorry if you disagree that plants are part of the water chemistry in a measurable way. I for one have no doubt.

I am not following what you are saying.

 

[smoke]

Smoke
Can you explain the 10.5 and 5.5 PH thing above. I do not understand it. With your system you are topping off with water of what PPM? Do You have a way to measure how much water you are adding to the system thru top offs?


Watermelon is still not happy happy.

The 10.5 ph rise and back down 5 5 to buffer. When i did attempt to buffer the water i would raise it to 9 and then bak down. Moe apparently gets it to 11 ph and then brings it back down.

My top up external rez has a sight and a thingy that i move up and down. Water i the rez is RO water@40 then usually 180 ppm of calmag. Which makes starting ppm of 220, so my top up water coming in is always 220 ppm.
Ppm reading in the flower room rite now is 390ppm so 170ppm of nutrients (green brown pink) plus calmag makeup their solution. Problem is how many ppms of calmag are they eating daily.

Watermelon is happier than she was. Planning on taking clones from her in about 3 weeks.

Sight glass on my rez

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

The 10.5 ph rise and back down 5 5 to buffer. When i did attempt to buffer the water i would raise it to 9 and then bak down. Moe apparently gets it to 11 ph and then brings it back down.

I've never heard of this practice. The only thing I have ever seen doing anything close to what you describe is mixing the agsil16. I would be curious to see what you guys are doing here.

 

[smoke]

I've never heard of this practice. The only thing I have ever seen doing anything close to what you describe is mixing the agsil16. I would be curious to see what you guys are doing here.

I'll let @Moe.Red respond to this. I have done it with and without. @Aqua Man

 

[Aqua Man]

I'll let @Moe.Red respond to this. I have done it with and without. @Aqua Man

I go by ppm since PH is a result and not able to give an idea on the amount of buffering capacity

 

[moe.red]

I've never heard of this practice. The only thing I have ever seen doing anything close to what you describe is mixing the agsil16. I would be curious to see what you guys are doing here.

Correct this is the silica based res setup thing. I’ll post a link from pc later. On science in hydroponics website

 

[moe.red]

I am not following what you are saying.

I’ll respond from a real keyboard later

 

[smoke]

Correct this is the silica based res setup thing. I’ll post a link from pc later. On science in hydroponics website

Here's the website he referenced, i thought I'd give you a head start to look around for a day or 2.
Edit blog archives

https://scienceinhydroponics.com/

 

[smoke]

Watermelon is still not happy happy.

I wanted to go back and repost a watermelon gelato picture from 14 days ago and comment that i think she's done exceptionally well considering. Here she js 14 days ago.

 

[Observer]

Correct this is the silica based res setup thing. I’ll post a link from pc later. On science in hydroponics website

Is any of this related to silica being ionic at ph10+

 

[smoke]

Plants are eating good, 2 days this week they were feed a double dose. 20ml 20ml 20ml.
Ppm sitting at 450 after they were fed this morning. Getting a extra 10ml calmag every second day according to my best guess and visual.

Day before yesterday ppms dropped point 4 overnight so they are automatically dousing now at 5.7.

Plants are still on 16/8 under hps until they put on another 12", then I'll flip to flower.

 

[moe.red]

I am not following what you are saying.

Forgot about getting back to this.

What I am saying is that plants, during photosynthesis, put carbon dioxide in the media at a higher level than atmospheric can contribute at 400PPM.

I am also saying that plants do effect PH and water chemistry in a measurable way regardless of sterile or live. All the way back to the res.

I think you are hearing or answering a different point than I am making here.

 

[Anthem275]

Forgot about getting back to this.

What I am saying is that plants, during photosynthesis, put carbon dioxide in the media at a higher level than atmospheric can contribute at 400PPM.

How did you find this information. Was it in research or personnel experience?

 

[Anthem275]

And hard disagree that plants and the microbes they feed have no effect on res water.

I am also saying that plants do effect PH and water chemistry in a measurable way regardless of sterile or live. All the way back to the res.

These are both your quotes to my response that I did not see a different in PH swings with sterile or live. I am going to stick to what I said because of a few things. The first being that #1 If the plant has such a measurable way of influencing the PH and water chemistry in the rez I should have seen a substantial difference in PH and PPM swings going from sterile to live. (why should I have seen this because the microbes would have been eating some of the water chemistry that was changing as a result of their presents) This I did not see. Secondly, there was another well known grower over that the other place @Dirtbag that thought Microbes where the holly grail at one time and he I believe admitted he did not see substantial differences as a result of introducing microbes into the grow.