smoke

[smoke]

Looking killer smoke. I'm guessing you don't top at all?

Sorry I missed this @SweetLeafGrow , i do use a top of rez, the 75 gal green storage in the picture above feeds both rooms via float valves in the epi center with ro water thats had just calmag added

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I'm guessing you don't top at all?

As in snip-snip

 

[smoke]

As in snip-snip

Lol, my wife told me she fimed once and we will one more time before flip

 

[smoke]

Not much to update, their appetites have picked up and are eating their daily feedings. Ph has started to drift lower from 5.7 to 5.1 yesterday in 24 hrs.

 

[smoke]

Funny thing happened with with my PH that I've not seen before.



Last week the ph was drifting lower daily by .1 or .2 . Middle last week i turned on the auto doser which i set to add ph up @5.5. This was Wednesday last week and remember ph was drifting lower. Plants were eating good

Noticed calcium def on july 19 and added a pretty good dose of calmag to the system at 1ml/gal which raised the ppm from 370 ppm to 440 ppm. The next morning checking things the ppm has fallen to 380 but now instead of the PH falling as it has bean doing for the last 3 week all of a sudden it seems after the hit of calmag the PH drift has reversed and now going higher.


I've never had anything like this happen before and it appears to be nutrient related.

Any idea's?

 

[Moshmen]

No idea but looking like a forest up in there !

 

[steamroller]

No hydro experience you know, but if I understand correctly Ca can raise pH.
Hard to say what the plants are using but possibly they are not taking up the Ca fast enough and it is contributing to pH rise?
Sorry about just guessing.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Any idea's?

I'm also guessing here bro, but according to that chart we've all been looking at, your ec/pH balance is pretty good. If anything, it may be signaling to raise the ec slightly, again, off that chart.

 

[smoke]

slg, your referring to the top chart

 

[steamroller]

View attachment 14370View attachment 14371

slg, your referring to the top chart

That chart says to me to lower you EC or just dilute by adding straight water?
That could help lower your pH if it is a build up of some sort.
Again just trying to learn and why I am not in yet.

 

[smoke]

That chart says to me to lower you EC or just dilute by adding straight water?
That could help lower your pH if it is a build up of some sort.
Again just trying to learn and why I am not in yet.

I just added the 3rd chart to convert from my reading on the 700 scale to EC.
I agree with you. But im feeding between .5 and .6 EC and the chart says lower it??? On the 500 scale that most here use im feeding less than 300 ppm how much should I lower it

 

[steamroller]

I would try to proportion how much less by how high the pH is.
Matching the number you want to drop [ 2-5 tenths] pH to 2-5 tenths your water volume.
Still just guessing but glad I interpreted the chart correct.
You usually run what most consider low ppm with great results.

What are your plants saying?

 

[Anthem275]

Can you post your PH products and your cal mag products?

 

[Anthem275]

And are you using a silica product if so what is it?

 

[moe.red]

My cal mag has a firm ph of 5.8 out of the bottle. I think it is the plants doing it.

 

[smoke]

No silica

Can you post your PH products and your cal mag products?

Botanicare calmag, GH ph up/dn

No silica

 

[smoke]

I would try to proportion how much less by how high the pH is.
Matching the number you want to drop [ 2-5 tenths] pH to 2-5 tenths your water volume.
Still just guessing but glad I interpreted the chart correct.
You usually run what most consider low ppm with great results.

What are your plants saying?

Other than the calmag whichthey got at 1ml/gal.

Id like to get them in the flower room. Water in room is sitting at 5.8Ph and 410 ppm

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I always forget you and Moe do auto top off, sorry bout that. That falling EC is normal for you, chart does not apply. Could your top off water be the cause of the change in pH?

 

[Anthem275]

No silica

Botanicare calmag, GH ph up/dn

No silica

Smoke I do not see anything in the Cal Mag, PH Up and Down are causing problems. I believe you need to increase the feed by .2 on your 700 scale and see what happens. Going from 440 PPM's to 380 PPM's in a day shows the plants eating fast. They will be consuming more CA right now because of their age that can have an effect on the PH but it should not be that demanding.
One other possiblity is your auto dose equipment. Take a look at how long the pumps go on for. It might be possible they went off and screwed up the PH. Have done that before.

 

[smoke]

One other possiblity is your auto dose equipment. Take a look at how long the pumps go on for. It might be possible they went off and screwed up the PH. Have done that before.

Anthem, doser is set at 9 sec. Setting at 9 which means about 2ml is added then the wait period.

But its not that because the auto doser was set to add ph up at 5.5

I have moved the 4 af1 over to the flower room today.
Ro water was at 40 ppm
Buffered, it sat at 80ppm
Add 220 ppm calmag, sitting at 300ppm
Add 40ml , 40ml, 40ml green brn pink, ppm sitting at 400

Some browning of roots, they smell fine

 

[smoke]

Anthem, doser is set at 9 sec. Setting at 9 which means about 2ml is added then the wait period.

But its not that because the auto doser was set to add ph up at 5.5

I have moved the 4 af1 over to the flower room today.
Ro water was at 40 ppm
Buffered, it sat at 80ppm
Add 220 ppm calmag, sitting at 300ppm
Add 40ml , 40ml, 40ml green brn pink, ppm sitting at 400

Some browning of roots, they smell fine

4 af1 moved to flower room

 

[moe.red]

Hi mrs smoke.

Mr smoke I think the brown on the roots is a bit much. Especially at the top like that. That is for sure a colony developing. Question in your system is what colony.

I’ve put a lot of thought into your system. For me it’s still a big ole question as to how you consistently get away with the neither sterile or live method.

I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is my opinion that adding chlorine or H2O2 would cause the brown at the top to vanish over time and the roots to take on a common more dark appearance all the way to the tips. It will impact your PH stability (probably more stable) if you are not building a colony, them eating and releasing CO2 = Carbonic Acid = Acidification.

But that does not explain your current situation because you are trending basic not acidic.

I understand your dosing and agree it is not the issue unless it is malfunctioning. Maybe draw a line on the bottle to make sure it is not using any PH Up.

I said earlier that I think the plants are doing this. The more I dive into the mysteries of the rhizosphere (I read a textbook on the plane this week that was enlightening) the more I realize just how complex the chemistry is there. For example, I finally realized that I do not have a way to measure the buffering capacity of my res. Nutrients do contribute to buffer in complex ways.

That said I am probably about as close to a match with your setup and nute lineup as you are likely to find on any forum. Like you, I traditionally trend down in PH and within the grow only find myself using PH UP.

I THINK what that tells us is that you are very likely attracting a bacillus bacteria (along with the typical nitrifying bacterias) that is compatible with cannabis root health naturally. The only way these colonies grow is if you feed them.

The nitrifying bacterias like Nitrosomonas will become present in virtually any water like in aquarium whether you add them or not. They feed off decaying organics.

The bacillus we typically attribute as positive for RDWC tend to lower PH as described above. It could be you have something different this time?

It could also be that the plants are doing this. They can and do adjust PH directly based on need. They also send out significant carbs calling in bacteria. I'd be interested in a Brix reading if you have a meter.


To me, a PH that lowers slightly each day is a good sign. Going up would be enough of a change to make me watch this close.

Last thing, same nutes same grow style I have not been able to stabilize PH by adding more nutes without causing worse problems. You know where to run these plants in this system successfully. Little adjustments patience and vigilance is my advice. If you want to talk it thru you have my number and I'm doing cannabis stuff all weekend.

 

[Anthem275]

To me, a PH that lowers slightly each day is a good sign. Going up would be enough of a change to make me watch this close.

I have never had PH dropping ever expect when using epsom salt and fulvic at end of grows. I have had a neutral state before where I was using water and nutrients at the same rates allowing for PH to remain stable and not have any drift. For me PH going up has always been the standard. I am not sure how flood and drain verses RDWC changes the formula but if I had PH dropping something would be wrong for me. This has remained constant rather sterile or live. Additionally while there is documentation the plants can adjust the PH in the root zone those adjustments do not equate to PH swings in a rez with water moving like it would in a soil type rootzone.

 

[smoke]

I have never had PH dropping ever expect when using epsom salt and fulvic at end of grows. I have had a neutral state before where I was using water and nutrients at the same rates allowing for PH to remain stable and not have any drift. For me PH going up has always been the standard. I am not sure how flood and drain verses RDWC changes the formula but if I had PH dropping something would be wrong for me. This has remained constant rather sterile or live. Additionally while there is documentation the plants can adjust the PH in the root zone those adjustments do not equate to PH swings in a rez with water moving like it would in a soil type rootzone.

Ph dropping to me has always indicated to me that something is wrong. That's why i say rot is chasing me. Now looking at "the" chart above dosen't ph falling in your system indicates that they are eating well?

More often i am chasing a falling ph. This big spike and reverse to a rising these past few days.....thinking this probably was the calmag.

The chetta piss and the watermelon are becoming moms in the veg room, i plan to flip these around 40" tall or 10 more inches.

 

[smoke]

Mr smoke I think the brown on the roots is a bit much. Especially at the top like that. That is for sure a colony developing. Question in your system is what colony.

Yes too much for my liking this early. We'll see if it's good or bad for both groups. Veg plants and flower plants

I’ve put a lot of thought into your system. For me it’s still a big ole question as to how you consistently get away with the neither sterile or live method.

We'll see how fast i can run. Lol

I'm not suggesting you do this, but it is my opinion that adding chlorine or H2O2 would cause the brown at the top to vanish over time and the roots to take on a common more dark appearance all the way to the tips. It will impact your PH stability (probably more stable) if you are not building a colony, them eating and releasing CO2 = Carbonic Acid = Acidification.

But that does not explain your current situation because you are trending basic not acidic.

Im glad you didn't suggest.

I understand your dosing and agree it is not the issue unless it is malfunctioning. Maybe draw a line on the bottle to make sure it is not using any PH Up.

I guarantee you it's not the doser

That said I am probably about as close to a match with your setup and nute lineup as you are likely to find on any forum. Like you, I traditionally trend down in PH and within the grow only find myself using PH UP.

Yes, i would say you and i are about as normal/simple as they come. Edit: my system is definitely simple.

I THINK what that tells us is that you are very likely attracting a bacillus bacteria (along with the typical nitrifying bacterias) that is compatible with cannabis root health naturally. The only way these colonies grow is if you feed them

Edit: yes theres something going on that alows me to grow how i grow. But how and what am i feeding the good bacteria? The bad ?

The bacillus we typically attribute as positive for RDWC tend to lower PH as described above. It could be you have something different this time?

Edit: im leaning that it was caused by suddenly adding the 1ml to their feeding solution? My guess.
We'll see what goes on now in the flower room as they+t It could also be that the plants are doing this. They can and do adjust PH directly based on need. They also send out significant carbs calling in bacteria. I'd be interested in a Brix reading if you have a meter.
Sorry no brix meter, which one would you recommend?

To me, a PH that lowers slightly each day is a good sign. Going up would be enough of a change to make me watch this close.

Yep

Last thing, same nutes same grow style I have not been able to stabilize PH by adding more nutes without causing worse problems. You know where to run these plants in this system successfully. Little adjustments patience and vigilance is my advice. If you want to talk it thru you have my number and I'm doing cannabis stuff all weekend.

Thanks @Moe.Red for the offer to talk but i find these little things almost a challenge. They'll be fine aka weed mostly grows

 

[moe.red]

I have never had PH dropping ever expect when using epsom salt and fulvic at end of grows. I have had a neutral state before where I was using water and nutrients at the same rates allowing for PH to remain stable and not have any drift. For me PH going up has always been the standard. I am not sure how flood and drain verses RDWC changes the formula but if I had PH dropping something would be wrong for me. This has remained constant rather sterile or live. Additionally while there is documentation the plants can adjust the PH in the root zone those adjustments do not equate to PH swings in a rez with water moving like it would in a soil type rootzone.

Flood and drain changes things dramatically. Roots dangling in water 24x7 vs open to air for hours every day is not very similar to me.

And hard disagree that plants and the microbes they feed have no effect on res water.

 

[moe.red]

More often i am chasing a falling ph. This big spike and reverse to a rising these past few days.....thinking this probably was the calmag.

There is more to the story. Cal mag by itself will not cause the ph to rise more than the nute solution is at. There is some chemistry at work here. The only active participants that can cause a shift in chemistry are your plants and your microbes. Unless there is something else we are not aware of here.

 

[Anthem275]

Flood and drain changes things dramatically. Roots dangling in water 24x7 vs open to air for hours every day is not very similar to me.

And hard disagree that plants and the microbes they feed have no effect on res water.

I am sorry if you disagree that sterile vs live has no effect on PH of Rez but that one for me is a fact. I have done both ways and the PH rising remains the same and at approximately the same rate.

 

[Anthem275]

Ph dropping to me has always indicated to me that something is wrong. That's why i say rot is chasing me. Now looking at "the" chart above dosen't ph falling in your system indicates that they are eating well?

More often i am chasing a falling ph. This big spike and reverse to a rising these past few days.....thinking this probably was the calmag.

Smoke here is the chart I use for basic hydro problems



Not the term Acid Rain. I do not have this problem but you may want to look at it as a possible reason for PH falling

 

[Anthem275]

The only active participants that can cause a shift in chemistry are your plants and your microbes. Unless there is something else we are not aware of here.

There is also an additional factor in the air you guys are pumping into the water. Straight air also has CO2 which can create an acid rain effect in the rez.

 

[smoke]

Smoke here is the chart I use for basic hydro problems



Not the term Acid Rain. I do not have this problem but you may want to look at it as a possible reason for PH falling

@Anthem275 , the last 3 lines of that chart are all that concerns me the way i feed and also the way @Moe.Red feeds. Correct me if im wrong moe.

Ph is now rising in the veg again there's the chetta piss and watermelon gelato in the veg room to take clones from for next round

Flower room they ate 40ppms since yesterday and today brought them back up to 390 ppm. Ph rose overnight. Turned auto doser off and will adjust manually with ph down. This water was buffered10.5 and 5.5 and sat stable for 2 days


Top down view of watermelon

 

[Anthem275]

@Anthem275 , the last 3 lines of that chart are all that concerns me the way i feed and also the way @Moe.Red feeds. Correct me if im wrong moe.

Ph is now rising in the veg again there's the chetta piss and watermelon gelato in the veg room to take clones from for next round View attachment 14527

Flower room they ate 40ppms since yesterday and today brought them back up to 390 ppm. Ph rose overnight. Turned auto doser off and will adjust manually with ph down. This water was buffered10.5 and 5.5 and sat stable for 2 days
View attachment 14528

Top down view of watermelon

View attachment 14529

Smoke
Can you explain the 10.5 and 5.5 PH thing above. I do not understand it. With your system you are topping off with water of what PPM? Do You have a way to measure how much water you are adding to the system thru top offs?


Watermelon is still not happy happy.

 

[moe.red]

I am sorry if you disagree that sterile vs live has no effect on PH of Rez but that one for me is a fact. I have done both ways and the PH rising remains the same and at approximately the same rate.

You got plants in that flood and drain?

I'm sorry if you disagree that plants are part of the water chemistry in a measurable way. I for one have no doubt.

 

[moe.red]

There is also an additional factor in the air you guys are pumping into the water. Straight air also has CO2 which can create an acid rain effect in the rez.

The plants excrete more CO2 than the atmosphere can contribute

 

[Anthem275]

The plants excrete more CO2 than the atmosphere can contribute

Yes with lights off.

 

[Anthem275]

The plants excrete more CO2 than the atmosphere can contribute

Also this is in the rootzone

 

[Anthem275]

You got plants in that flood and drain?

I'm sorry if you disagree that plants are part of the water chemistry in a measurable way. I for one have no doubt.

I am not following what you are saying.

 

[smoke]

Smoke
Can you explain the 10.5 and 5.5 PH thing above. I do not understand it. With your system you are topping off with water of what PPM? Do You have a way to measure how much water you are adding to the system thru top offs?


Watermelon is still not happy happy.

The 10.5 ph rise and back down 5 5 to buffer. When i did attempt to buffer the water i would raise it to 9 and then bak down. Moe apparently gets it to 11 ph and then brings it back down.

My top up external rez has a sight and a thingy that i move up and down. Water i the rez is RO water@40 then usually 180 ppm of calmag. Which makes starting ppm of 220, so my top up water coming in is always 220 ppm.
Ppm reading in the flower room rite now is 390ppm so 170ppm of nutrients (green brown pink) plus calmag makeup their solution. Problem is how many ppms of calmag are they eating daily.

Watermelon is happier than she was. Planning on taking clones from her in about 3 weeks.

Sight glass on my rez

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

The 10.5 ph rise and back down 5 5 to buffer. When i did attempt to buffer the water i would raise it to 9 and then bak down. Moe apparently gets it to 11 ph and then brings it back down.

I've never heard of this practice. The only thing I have ever seen doing anything close to what you describe is mixing the agsil16. I would be curious to see what you guys are doing here.

 

[smoke]

I've never heard of this practice. The only thing I have ever seen doing anything close to what you describe is mixing the agsil16. I would be curious to see what you guys are doing here.

I'll let @Moe.Red respond to this. I have done it with and without. @Aqua Man