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SSHZ does Ethos "Zsweet Inzanity".........again

I’m not hitting them again, other than removing any larger leaves blocking buds below. There is a point of diminishing returns with defoliation, and I’m already stretching it a bit. A lot has been removed overall, I think I accomplished what I set out for- exposing buds underneath The canopy. In a couple of weeks, we should have a fairly even canopy with lots of tops everywhere. Life it good and I’m tired. NFL football will be consuming a lot of my time for the next few months. I’ll water and not much else.
 
Call me crazy, but i'm actually thinking about pulling everything out and putting the tall plants in one side and the short on the other side. With the height differences in there , it creates havoc with the lighting. It'll be in the 90's tomorrow here, just may do it at lights on tomorrow. I need to count them, short and tall and see if it makes.
 
Well, tomorrow is the day. There are a bit more short plants than tall, but it makes sense to even them out side to side so the lighting will be more even across the board. I’ll tackle it at lights on tomorrow, pic’s up when I’m done. It shouldn’t take me more than 30-45 minutes tops.
 
Lastly, plants look great, right? Everything is nice and green, and leaves are at the maximum angle to gather in the photons. It’s just the hills and valley’s in there bothering me now.

With budding starting now, I’m not sure how much more stretch I’ll get out of them- probably no more than a few inches max..........

Lastly, expand the pic’s and look at all those leaves..........lol
 
SSHZ said:
Call me crazy, but i'm actually thinking about pulling everything out and putting the tall plants in one side and the short on the other side. With the height differences in there , it creates havoc with the lighting. It'll be in the 90's tomorrow here, just may do it at lights on tomorrow. I need to count them, short and tall and see if it makes.
Click to expand...
I would.
 
Pita when I have to move a plant out through the door to get to the others..hate doing it..

looking good sshz..they look light.
 
Pic’s up of everything in their new surroundings after they acclimate themselves.

Max, like you, I had to pull everything out, placing the tall to one side and the short to the other. It’s the only way I can compare them to each other. It wasn’t as bad as a defoliation, and when done, I adjusted the lights to a more even and level photon distribution. It will pay off in the long run I’m sure.

Today is day 17.
 
i have about a ft the difference in heights lol.I’ve got 7 clones I’ve taken for nxt grow..i betcha these stay short and get them stacking..I willpic one and make some seeds…this will b my first run with clones..you still thinking of getting the truffle clone.
 
i gave it a lot of thought......it will be available for a few months. difference is, clones do not yield the same. they don't have the established root system to grow a large plant unless you grow them a very long time and their structure can be a bit crazy when grown out. i may get seeds at some point, but they are pricey too to do a whole room full.
 
SSHZ said:
i gave it a lot of thought......it will be available for a few months. difference is, clones do not yield the same. they don't have the established root system to grow a large plant unless you grow them a very long time and their structure can be a bit crazy when grown out. i may get seeds at some point, but they are pricey too to do a whole room full.
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Can you back this up with any science? Not doubting you but if it's true it has ramifications for those growing larger plants.
 
Max- i may buy a few of them and send them to you to work with........we just need them to get thru.
 
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Roots.....science, no, not really. But it's out there somewhere as i've seen numerous breeders discuss it. But 35+ years of growing both have shown me the light.

Clones do not have the root system to support a large plant, as they do not have a main tap root like a plant from seed. You can get them to grow big, but it will be a long time in veg. With seeds, 100-110 days you get a large plant and large yield.

Further, I think clones grow roots closer to the surface. The tap root off a seed grows down deep, straight down.

Anyone else want to comment on this, help a brother out. lol
 
SSHZ said:
Roots.....science, no, not really. But it's out there somewhere as i've seen numerous breeders discuss it. But 35+ years of growing both have shown me the light.

Clones do not have the root system to support a large plant, as they do not have a main tap root like a plant from seed. You can get them to grow big, but it will be a long time in veg. With seeds, 100-110 days you get a large plant and large yield.

Further, I think clones grow roots closer to the surface. The tap root off a seed grows down deep, straight down.

Anyone else want to comment on this, help a brother out. lol
Click to expand...
I've also read similar, but don't have any direct experience outdoors where I imagine this would really come into play. indoors, and depending on the method of grow, i've managed to get some very respectably sized plants that started out as clones within reasonable veg times.
 
it depends what you count as reasonable..........you will NOT have the same size plant growing from seed vs. clone, in the same time frame.
 
SSHZ said:
it depends what you count as reasonable..........you will NOT have the same size plant growing from seed vs. clone, in the same time frame.
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some day i'll do a side by side and put that to the test. i've always found the few weeks of lag time when starting from seed to be fairly prohibitive whereas i can get clones rooted in as little as seven days and right into veg. then again there's also the issue of genetics and vitality of the seed. some seeds are more vigorous than others, but with a carefully chosen cultivar and a strong healthy mom, the clones are almost guaranteed to be just as vigorous as the mother stock.

never ran seed plants side by side with clones, so my perceptions of growth rates are probably wrong. would be an interesting side-by-side for sure!
 
SSHZ said:
Roots.....science, no, not really. But it's out there somewhere as i've seen numerous breeders discuss it. But 35+ years of growing both have shown me the light.

Clones do not have the root system to support a large plant, as they do not have a main tap root like a plant from seed. You can get them to grow big, but it will be a long time in veg. With seeds, 100-110 days you get a large plant and large yield.

Further, I think clones grow roots closer to the surface. The tap root off a seed grows down deep, straight down.

Anyone else want to comment on this, help a brother out. lol
Click to expand...
SSHZ I have noticed some pretty big differences in growth of clones versus from seeds. I have been running clones for so long I did really notice it until I stated looking for some new cultivars. First off seeds can take a ton of light pretty much from day one. I know you run your lights at full capacity from day one. A clone IMO just cannot handle that kind of light, maybe 20 percent once rooted. I believe it takes a clone much longer to develop the root system required for high PPFD. I find myself not able to get a clone to accept 100 percent of the light from the same light you are running until the clone is about 40 days old. I try to have the lights at 100 percent no later than the end of week 1 of flower. Once the clones are able to handle ( the root system) the light they really take off. I ran soil before and I further believe clones in soil can handle more light quicker than in hydro.
 
There you go.........from the man himself.

i look at it this way- the tap root from seed i'd guess is the best at absorbing moisture in the medium. And the longer the tap root, the more smaller roots it's able to out out. Since clones do not have one, they are lacking in roots and their ability to absorb enough to handle a high respiration rate under 100% lighting. i think the tap root also goes a long way to support the overall plant and helps large plants stay upright.

When i grew from clones, i always had a single mother, which was a clone at one time. i've had a single mother give me over 1000 clones in her life. when she became too root bound, i'd turn one of her clones into a new mother. The clones took months to develop into a large size. i thought the key advantage of clones was they take on the mothers age. So a clone from a mother 1 year old is already one year old, and will flower earlier than a plant from seed. But then the consideration is having it large enough before flowering, so the yield is what you are looking for.
 
SSHZ said:
There you go.........from the man himself.

i look at it this way- the tap root from seed i'd guess is the best at absorbing moisture in the medium. And the longer the tap root, the more smaller roots it's able to out out. Since clones do not have one, they are lacking in roots and their ability to absorb enough to handle a high respiration rate under 100% lighting. i think the tap root also goes a long way to support the overall plant and helps large plants stay upright.

When i grew from clones, i always had a single mother, which was a clone at one time. i've had a single mother give me over 1000 clones in her life. when she became too root bound, i'd turn one of her clones into a new mother. The clones took months to develop into a large size. i thought the key advantage of clones was they take on the mothers age. So a clone from a mother 1 year old is already one year old, and will flower earlier than a plant from seed. But then the consideration is having it large enough before flowering, so the yield is what you are looking for.
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Interesting take. Would leave to see how the biology works on this.
 
A simple google search and you'll find plenty of info......just look for plants, not trees. Per a college course:

"Normally plants which have a taproots have a bigger size plant size such as almost all the tree plants as well as vegetable crops, that means those plants require more water and nutrients, so taproots suppose to be more active to absorb both water and nutrients."

i took 8 credits of advanced biology in college- i was premed in college. So, tap root= good. No tap root= bad.

LOL Lol
 
What a waste of space........i understand plant limits some of us live under but still...........
 
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