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tobh's troll cave

Just setting expectations. If you want to isolate you need an engineered room.
tobh said:
yup. i mean, i'm gonna be building stuff, but not trying to drop $50k+ into the project either lol i'll already be building a room inside a room for other purposes as it is 🤣
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I only mentioned it because you said soundproof as humanly possible was the objective, and I know it's not easy or inexpensive to do well. Less expensive- Extra layer of drywall or two, with green glue in between would also be effective(mass loading). In-room acoustics and isolation require different prescriptions, Im sure you already understand this but people often conflate the two and end up disappointed.
 
Cool_Beans said:
Just setting expectations. If you want to isolate you need an engineered room.

I only mentioned it because you said soundproof as humanly possible was the objective, and I know it's not easy or inexpensive to do well. Less expensive- Extra layer of drywall or two, with green glue in between would also be effective(mass loading). In-room acoustics and isolation require different prescriptions, Im sure you already understand this but people often conflate the two and end up disappointed.
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for sure! i appreciate all input. I will need to be ripping sheetrock out anyways due to mold, and I think at least on three walls and the ceiling i can gain some space for isolation. I'm assuming green glue is available in fairly large quantities? like -- contractor quantities?

really, if i can get the room to the point where the windows and the exterior doors are the weak points, those can be addressed relatively cheaply. i just want to quit hearing kids screaming/dogs barking/women yelling at almost full volume when I'm trying to do some goddamn work. typically i can drown most of it out with music but then that just annoys the lady so it's kind of a two way street for the value of having the office as isolated as possible.
 
Yeah they do. Big tubes or 5gal.

Think of your house structure/framing like a big tuning fork, will help conceptualize why its hard to stop vibrations(sound) from traveling in or out of where you dont want. It's the framing that transfers the energy, and it's all connected. Interior surfaces are attached to framing, like the cups on the end of a taut string "telephone". You can dissipate the energy with mass before it makes it to the rest of the structure(concrete, layered drywall, sound deadening products), or mechanically decouple so there is no path(room in room, staggered stud wall, isolation clips) or both.

It's been a while since I was neck deep in the stuff and there have likely been innovations since, plus I smoke a shitload of weed and often forget why I entered a room. With that said Im happy to share what I know but it's always good to do your own research.
 
Cool_Beans said:
Yeah they do. Big tubes or 5gal.

Think of your house structure/framing like a big tuning fork, will help conceptualize why its hard to stop vibrations(sound) from traveling in or out of where you dont want. It's the framing that transfers the energy, and it's all connected. Interior surfaces are attached to framing, like the cups on the end of a taut string "telephone". You can dissipate the energy with mass before it makes it to the rest of the structure(concrete, layered drywall, sound deadening products), or mechanically decouple so there is no path(room in room, staggered stud wall, isolation clips) or both.

It's been a while since I was neck deep in the stuff and there have likely been innovations since, plus I smoke a shitload of weed and often forget why I entered a room. With that said Im happy to share what I know but it's always good to do your own research.
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absolutely, and you've provided some solid, practical application direction to go down. I've been researching this shit for the better part of a year but keep winding up buried in theory instead finding information on how to apply the theory. Like, even acoustic foam in of itself is a massive rabbit hole.
 
tobh said:
absolutely, and you've provided some solid, practical application direction to go down. I've been researching this shit for the better part of a year but keep winding up buried in theory instead finding information on how to apply the theory. Like, even acoustic foam in of itself is a massive rabbit hole.
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Yeah for sure dude, and what is particularly stressful is you wont know if you did it right or not until after significant expense and effort, tis why I piped up with some food for thought.

Do you have any HVAC ductwork that terminates in the proposed office room?
 
@Cool_Beans That drop down is the HVAC plenum that runs almost the entire length of the basement. There's also a vent about 3ft from that light right above my desk.
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Cool_Beans said:
Yeah for sure dude, and what is particularly stressful is you wont know if you did it right or not until after significant expense and effort, tis why I piped up with some food for thought.

Do you have any HVAC ductwork that terminates in the proposed office room?
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I see where you're going with this...YES....ducting will affect your goal.
 
and disregard the sloppy door in the hallway. painting the trim in there, the doors will be next. have like four fucking painting projects going right now. house looks ridiculous.
 
tobh said:
@Cool_Beans That drop down is the HVAC plenum that runs almost the entire length of the basement. There's also a vent about 3ft from that light right above my desk.
View attachment 21765
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That might be a challenge. There is a product called Linacoutsic, used for lining the inside of ductwork to prevent sound from traveling though them. It's good stuff and easy to work with. Your local HVAC supplier can probably get it. Makes good bass trap stuffing too if you layer it.

Linacoustic RC

Fiberglass duct liner with a glass mat airstream surface coated with antimicrobial coating (Service temp: 250°F)
www.jm.com www.jm.com
 
Cool_Beans said:
That might be a challenge. There is a product called Linacoutsic, used for lining the inside of ductwork to prevent sound from traveling though them. It's good stuff and easy to work with. Your local HVAC supplier can probably get it. Makes good bass trap stuffing too if you layer it.

Linacoustic RC

Fiberglass duct liner with a glass mat airstream surface coated with antimicrobial coating (Service temp: 250°F)
www.jm.com www.jm.com
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good looking out!

that ledge is one of the rudest reflecting spots, too. on the red face, I'll be mounting acoustic foam to try and cut down on some of that behavior but otherwise, the height from floor to ceiling under the dropdown is like 7ft 1in so doesn't leave a whole of room do to anything else inside the office to deal with sound coming through the plenum. The plenum is wrapped in R20 from what I could tell while pulling the ethernet cabling, though, so there's some sound reduction in there.
 
Linacoustic is some really nice stuff. I've seen it in action and it does a really nice job of dropping DB.

I was thinking of using it for a DIY duct noise reducer for the tent but ACI sells them for $40 so not really worth the time.
 
tobh said:
good looking out!

that ledge is one of the rudest reflecting spots, too. on the red face, I'll be mounting acoustic foam to try and cut down on some of that behavior but otherwise, the height from floor to ceiling under the dropdown is like 7ft 1in so doesn't leave a whole of room do to anything else inside the office to deal with sound coming through the plenum. The plenum is wrapped in R20 from what I could tell while pulling the ethernet cabling, though, so there's some sound reduction in there.
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Can you install a 6" tube baffle that'll run horizontally along the roof/wall to reduce the 90's in the room? Same with your corners.
 
Rootsruler said:
Can you install a 6" tube baffle that'll run horizontally along the roof/wall to reduce the 90's in the room? Same with your corners.
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I didn't think about that. The fucked up thing about this room is three corners have doors. Two open inwards, and are right up on the perpendicular wall. so, I'm stuck with those corners. The one corner I can do anything with I'll be putting a bass trap at the bottom of. Around the edges of the ceiling and walls, I haven't quite decided yet as I think the boxes that'll be mounted to the ceiling should trap quite a bit of sound in them too.

i remember when I was like 10, my science fair project was very naively called "can sound be bent?" and my hypothesis was that no, the waves couldn't be "bent" in a traditional sense, but could be redirected by way of the echo effect. obviously, that proved to be a correct hypothesis, but that experiment, and the echo effect, get insanely complicated when talking about room acoustics lol
 
tobh said:
I didn't think about that. The fucked up thing about this room is three corners have doors. Two open inwards, and are right up on the perpendicular wall. so, I'm stuck with those corners. The one corner I can do anything with I'll be putting a bass trap at the bottom of. Around the edges of the ceiling and walls, I haven't quite decided yet as I think the boxes that'll be mounted to the ceiling should trap quite a bit of sound in them too.

i remember when I was like 10, my science fair project was very naively called "can sound be bent?" and my hypothesis was that no, the waves couldn't be "bent" in a traditional sense, but could be redirected by way of the echo effect. obviously, that proved to be a correct hypothesis, but that experiment, and the echo effect, get insanely complicated when talking about room acoustics lol
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So True. Same Audio Engineer I mentioned earlier said there are no perfect rooms. Only less compromised.
 
Cool_Beans said:
I always hear the same thing when I'm in a dead room. How bad is my tinnitus lol

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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i've wondered how bad my tinitus would be in this room, or if the weird air dynamics in it might impact the coclear nerve just right so that the tinnitus STFU for a minute.
 
tobh said:
i've wondered how bad my tinitus would be in this room, or if the weird air dynamics in it might impact the coclear nerve just right so that the tinnitus STFU for a minute.
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I know tinnitus is for real, but during one of my solo acid trips, my ears were really ringing. It took my attention away from all else and it started to sound like that hum of electronics, like a TV on in another room. What if that's just the sound of our brains!?
 
GrumpAzz said:
I know tinnitus is for real, but during one of my solo acid trips, my ears were really ringing. It took my attention away from all else and it started to sound like that hum of electronics, like a TV on in another room. What if that's just the sound of our brains!?
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technically, it is. Tinnitus is damage to the coclear nerve. That ringing you've heard after a single super loud sound or loud sound for a long duration? That's the sound of the nerves responsible for processing that particular frequency being dead. Your brain functions on a reverse signal voltage for sound, and tinnitus is caused by the nerves that have been damaged by excessive sounds or pressure which would return that signal voltage to the brain. your brain basically defaults to "i hear this" and you perceive hearing that ring, but it's not there. It's literally your brain.

I worked for an audiology business and learned this shit. don't like knowing it, but i do.

fucked up thing? there's no cure for tinnitus without a fairly aggressive surgery where they install an electrode into your skull and tap into that nerve to feed the brain the signal it's missing. It's fucked up.
 
tobh said:
technically, it is. Tinnitus is damage to the coclear nerve. That ringing you've heard after a single super loud sound or loud sound for a long duration? That's the sound of the nerves responsible for processing that particular frequency being dead. Your brain functions on a reverse signal voltage for sound, and tinnitus is caused by the nerves that have been damaged by excessive sounds or pressure which would return that signal voltage to the brain. your brain basically defaults to "i hear this" and you perceive hearing that ring, but it's not there. It's literally your brain.

I worked for an audiology business and learned this shit. don't like knowing it, but i do.

fucked up thing? there's no cure for tinnitus without a fairly aggressive surgery where they install an electrode into your skull and tap into that nerve to feed the brain the signal it's missing. It's fucked up.
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I’ll stick with the EEeeeeeeeereeee TYVM
 
tops from the plants being cloned for an unofficial trade. getting a riding lawn mower out of the deal, but the person giving me the mower doesn't know i'm the person that these clones will be coming from. gonna keep it that way.
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first time since college i've had a full rack of clones. we'll see if i can manage to not fuck this up.

the plants are looking good, they're chugging along. i have a mobile nutrient issue going on, a lot of the lower growth was yellow with brown spots, thinking it's likely a pH issue. just moving slow right now because i want the slabs heavily rooted before flipping to flower. as much as i want to drag it out till the end of october, i don't think the plants are going to support that, so i'll need to make up some concentrate and write out very clear, specific instructions for the lady to follow while i'm in nashville for the annual visit. unfortunately that's likely going to be during the first or second week of flower, so basically the time that a fuck up will make or break the grow.

all good otherwise. vpd is kinda fucky because i'm not keeping up with emptying the dehuey and temps are suffering as a result too. it is what it is, ya know! just another grow with all the issues we're used to battling.
 
tobh said:
unfortunately that's likely going to be during the first or second week of flower, so basically the time that a fuck up will make or break the grow.
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Man.. I just wanna say.. don't let her know that if you haven't already. Don't bring pressure into the scenario.
 
GrumpAzz said:
Man.. I just wanna say.. don't let her know that if you haven't already. Don't bring pressure into the scenario.
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nah, she understands. i've been teaching her slowly over the past five years. res changes are her most nerve racking chore when she has to do them because she knows how critical it is to follow the instructions to the T. I know the 15 step process by memory, ya know, but she doesn't. given it's her medicine i'm growing, she also doesn't want to fuck it up.

i just gotta time the flip right, even if that means additional topping as my PK boost periods are pretty specific, as well as changes in fertigation schedule, so if i can land the nashville trip on week 1 of flower, that'd be perfect because it's the most "normal" moment in flower.
 
tobh said:
nah, she understands. i've been teaching her slowly over the past five years. res changes are her most nerve racking chore when she has to do them because she knows how critical it is to follow the instructions to the T. I know the 15 step process by memory, ya know, but she doesn't. given it's her medicine i'm growing, she also doesn't want to fuck it up.

i just gotta time the flip right, even if that means additional topping as my PK boost periods are pretty specific, as well as changes in fertigation schedule, so if i can land the nashville trip on week 1 of flower, that'd be perfect because it's the most "normal" moment in flower.
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Cool man. I just know that stressful situations can become so much more difficult with added pressure. It's really cool of you to be slowly showing her the ropes though. Trust is huge in a relationship and I'm sure she loves that you trust her enough to get her hands dirty with the plants.

My lady gets nervous when I'm at work and the plant needs a 5ml shot of up or down. She'll get the hang of it. It's all I talk about anymore 🤣.
 
GrumpAzz said:
Cool man. I just know that stressful situations can become so much more difficult with added pressure. It's really cool of you to be slowly showing her the ropes though. Trust is huge in a relationship and I'm sure she loves that you trust her enough to get her hands dirty with the plants.

My lady gets nervous when I'm at work and the plant needs a 5ml shot of up or down. She'll get the hang of it. It's all I talk about anymore 🤣.
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yeah, it's been a journey. i can't really say i trust her, because i don't. if she's proven anything she's consistently unreliable in every aspect of her life. but if i tell her exactly what needs done and when, it's a 50/50 she'll get it done, and 30/70 she'll get it done right. last year i was on a video call with her while she did the res top off because she was so nervous. will probably do the same this year.
 
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