Zen Garden 2025

[Zen_seeker]

Hey, I've never had much success using the tops for clones. That's one reason I started topping early to get side shoots that I could clone from.

Clones I have good luck with. I take the tops because I cut it off anyway. Basically if I have to cut something off anyway I’ll see if it will grow roots. Whenever I lollipop, clear air paths or just thin out the foliage I see if anything is good enough to keep.

Years ago with 1 precious seed I'd top it then take cuts at about 6 weeks old and grow them out with the mom, took me 6 months but I'd get 6-7-8 plants off the 1 seed to harvest and a large ugly mom flowering I didn't know how to look after.

After my first set of seeds I grew to flower I started practicing cloning. In water, in soil, then with rooting powder and finally rooting gel.

It was so easy I would toss branches in the water coffee can I use for adding humidity and in a week it would have nice roots.

Then a buddy told me we have a four plant limit.

So now I mostly grow clones as I only had the one strain until last year or so.

I knew nothing of RH, PH or PPM and after 6 months mom was pretty sad looking and grew pretty crappy airy buds. Kids were okay but still airy & nothing like today's weed I grow. I really didn't have a clue. I had 1 light, a 1000w hps, I vegged, cloned and flowered under it, in a 5ft high room, cramped, hiding in a cave, banging my head on ducting, cold with lights out and no air movement...lol....

I never really had a mother plant. More perpetual grow type style.

Prior I started with seeds from a buddy. Grew them like window plants. Then took them in/out each day as they got bigger. Then saw a great deal on grow lights just before the first plant started flowering. (To be honest I think I made it reveg taking it in and out each day.) So I put them in a corner and hung the light above.

Little by little I get better. Buy stuff as we can, if it’s needed. Now I just hope it all lasts long enough to make the purchases worth it.

I knew about some gardening things from helping family over the years but never cared much about it. Some of it stuck. Some of it was new. PPM or EC never mattered. But at times I check it now. Same for PH. I use the same stuff over and over so when I checked originally it was okay. Now I just repeat until I have an issue. That’s usually because I changed something thinking it would improve the harvest.

Things really took off when a few years later I got maybe 100 seeds off a friend, some hermied or went on me as I knew nothing of light leaks, some were males that contaminated my crops before I knew what the fk was going on. Were talking 35 odd years ago, I wouldn't dare look online for fear the man would track me to my home and raid me in the middle of the night.

I started because a buddy gave me over 100 seeds. My wife wanted to learn how to grow vegetables at home so I set her up. He saw that and just gave me the seeds. I remember saying; “Don’t expect me to get a light or tent or anything. I’m not into gardening.”

It was already legal here and I figured it couldn’t be to much harder than tomatoes, right?
The internet helped and hurt by the time I was ready to look for help in the middle of a grow.

Some grows I do okay, others I do great. Once in a while I get a dud or screw things up. In the end I just want it to be simple and grow good weed at a reasonable cost of time, effort and money.

I found my best success with clones was just to cut scrape, dip in clonex and stick in the ground in a dome in a solo cup in saturated Promix, spray dome and clones twice a day at 78 ish F.

That’s pretty much the way I do the soil clones in my red cups. Even the scrape about an inch above the cut down. I also add powder after the gel because I already have it. This is when I’m really trying to get clones.

If I’m mucking around or testing things and don’t need a clone I’ll try in water. I seem to have good luck. Our water is around 155ppm and they use chloramine. I change out the tap water weekly and don’t add anything else.

The two reasons I made this clone was to test the neoprene puck and to see if I could grow one in a shot glass. Just need a light blocker for the roots.

I’m sure I’ve stolen a few ideas from you in the past as well as others. Heck the paper towel trick I learned in school with tomato seeds. But it’s how I first popped seeds my first year.

Here’s hoping my shotglass clone works out. Otherwise only my son will have plants this grow.

 

[Pipecarver]

Clones I have good luck with. I take the tops because I cut it off anyway. Basically if I have to cut something off anyway I’ll see if it will grow roots. Whenever I lollipop, clear air paths or just thin out the foliage I see if anything is good enough to keep.


After my first set of seeds I grew to flower I started practicing cloning. In water, in soil, then with rooting powder and finally rooting gel.

It was so easy I would toss branches in the water coffee can I use for adding humidity and in a week it would have nice roots.

Then a buddy told me we have a four plant limit.

So now I mostly grow clones as I only had the one strain until last year or so.


I never really had a mother plant. More perpetual grow type style.

Prior I started with seeds from a buddy. Grew them like window plants. Then took them in/out each day as they got bigger. Then saw a great deal on grow lights just before the first plant started flowering. (To be honest I think I made it reveg taking it in and out each day.) So I put them in a corner and hung the light above.

Little by little I get better. Buy stuff as we can, if it’s needed. Now I just hope it all lasts long enough to make the purchases worth it.

I knew about some gardening things from helping family over the years but never cared much about it. Some of it stuck. Some of it was new. PPM or EC never mattered. But at times I check it now. Same for PH. I use the same stuff over and over so when I checked originally it was okay. Now I just repeat until I have an issue. That’s usually because I changed something thinking it would improve the harvest.


I started because a buddy gave me over 100 seeds. My wife wanted to learn how to grow vegetables at home so I set her up. He saw that and just gave me the seeds. I remember saying; “Don’t expect me to get a light or tent or anything. I’m not into gardening.”

It was already legal here and I figured it couldn’t be to much harder than tomatoes, right?
The internet helped and hurt by the time I was ready to look for help in the middle of a grow.

Some grows I do okay, others I do great. Once in a while I get a dud or screw things up. In the end I just want it to be simple and grow good weed at a reasonable cost of time, effort and money.


That’s pretty much the way I do the soil clones in my red cups. Even the scrape about an inch above the cut down. I also add powder after the gel because I already have it. This is when I’m really trying to get clones.

If I’m mucking around or testing things and don’t need a clone I’ll try in water. I seem to have good luck. Our water is around 155ppm and they use chloramine. I change out the tap water weekly and don’t add anything else.

The two reasons I made this clone was to test the neoprene puck and to see if I could grow one in a shot glass. Just need a light blocker for the roots.

I’m sure I’ve stolen a few ideas from you in the past as well as others. Heck the paper towel trick I learned in school with tomato seeds. But it’s how I first popped seeds my first year.

Here’s hoping my shotglass clone works out. Otherwise only my son will have plants this grow.

Its -12c here atm and it's supposed to go down as low as -20c with wind chill tonight....That's fkin snappy and I'm not a big fan of this winter sht to begin with. If it wasn't for weed 3 happy cats and a warm wife.....I'd be living down south somewhere....lol..

 

[OLDCRO]

Got up this morning and it was -27. Didnt take long for my two dogs to do there business and start rapping on the door.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Plants are still trying. Clone looks good and keeping its colour. Lights are out until 1pm but humidity and temp are good until then.

Looks like both seeds popped at dinner time yesterday. Had to spin the right one 180*.

Today the right ones great but the left has stalled.

I just hope the warmer temps last until I can put them in the pots. Only -2*c this morning.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Going to try mailing weed to a friend this weekend. Not sure how it works past buying the weed bag for $17. I assume weight or location is added on top of that?

Four strains at 7g each. Some got vacuumed tighter than others.

If it’s cheap enough I’ll do this for two other buddies who live more than 2-3 hours away. They can’t drive any more and only make it to the city for doctors appointments and stuff like that.

Coffee time! ️

 

[Zen_seeker]

Got lucky. The 9 cell seed propagation tray with pots fit a shot glass perfectly.

Lights on the small section is holding in the mid 80’s for RH and mid 70f/20c for temperature. 23.5c currently.



The clone drank a third of the glass so far. I’ll have to watch that. If things go well I should see roots in a week or so. Faster if it stays warm.

This will be a nice way to start small clones going forward. I’ll still use red cups for larger ones and more mature branches. Just nice to try new things with what I already have.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Everything seems okay. Not great, but okay. Moved the VG back to the tent yesterday(?) as the little one didn’t have a tail yet and the other seemed stalled.



Not sure if it helped or not but small ones a bit bigger and the other has a huge tap root now, but nothings moving toward the top yet.

Clone looks okay. Just changed the water. Noticed a few lower leaf tips are getting a touch of yellow.

Damp chill is back so everything is in the one tent section. Had to dim the light a bit a few days ago as I thought I saw light issues. Paid off as the new growth is all fine but the big leaves on the big seedling got a bit of burn.

I’d like the two oldest plants in the section below but I don’t think the small ones ready yet. I don’t have enough equipment to run both sections together. So probably next week.

 

[Stoneyluv]

not saying you did anything wrong, only thing i do different is i set the seed in closer to the top, i use direct sow rules. maybe a 5-7mm gap on the top. and keep it hot right from the beginning 85-90°F

another difference when using a VG, hydro rules matter for the water. there is no soil or rooter plug to buffer anything, water must be "high quality H2O" (in my best waterboy voice).

 

[Zen_seeker]

not saying you did anything wrong,

Feel free to point out if I do. You don’t point it out in a negative way so no offence will be taken.

only thing i do different is i set the seed in closer to the top, i use direct sow rules. maybe a 5-7mm gap on the top. and keep it hot right from the beginning 85-90°F

G$ mentioned that to me earlier but we stuck to the pics Bandit posted. It’s more like 10mm or so but we’ll change that next time I peek.

Temp I can’t do too much more. Heat pad was added but some nights/mornings are just cold. That’s why I moved everything to the tent again. Funny how a few days of warmer weather can make such a big difference.

another difference when using a VG, hydro rules matter for the water. there is no soil or rooter plug to buffer anything, water must be "high quality H2O" (in my best waterboy voice).

Hmm. I have used bottled, distilled and add peroxide to shot glass seeds but don’t recall if I have in the VG. If I did it was only for the first soaking.

I think temp and RH is my main issue but I have bottled and distilled water still. If we need to pop more I’ll go that route too.

At 1pm lights on we can check things over. I was going to suggest he move the one new seedling to a pot today. We can plant it closer to the surface too.

I used to love Adam Sandler until Water Boy. After that it was hit and miss. Dumb comedy makes me cringe. It’s my nails on chalkboard equivalent.

 

[steamroller]

For what it is worth I use my tap water for the VG.
My water would be considered medium hard I think.
pH 7.6/GH 9 / KH 2-3 with TDS at 350+
I do adjust the pH for my plants just for shit and giggles.
I'll never know if it makes a difference. I manage to get something to act up almost every time for every plant~!

 

[Pipecarver]

Feel free to point out if I do. You don’t point it out in a negative way so no offence will be taken.


G$ mentioned that to me earlier but we stuck to the pics Bandit posted. It’s more like 10mm or so but we’ll change that next time I peek.

Temp I can’t do too much more. Heat pad was added but some nights/mornings are just cold. That’s why I moved everything to the tent again. Funny how a few days of warmer weather can make such a big difference.


Hmm. I have used bottled, distilled and add peroxide to shot glass seeds but don’t recall if I have in the VG. If I did it was only for the first soaking.

I think temp and RH is my main issue but I have bottled and distilled water still. If we need to pop more I’ll go that route too.

At 1pm lights on we can check things over. I was going to suggest he move the one new seedling to a pot today. We can plant it closer to the surface too.

I used to love Adam Sandler until Water Boy. After that it was hit and miss. Dumb comedy makes me cringe. It’s my nails on chalkboard equivalent.

Back in the 90's when I first bought seeds they guaranteed them to pop if we followed their germinating instruction. They gave the paper towel method with Spring water. I've used it ever since, it still has good shit in it, its clean and its cheap. RO and distilled is devoid of everything plants need, including seedlings. its just wet.

I also always use the same water I soak the seeds in to soak the paper towel with. I saw a Youtube with guys in white suits that seemed to know what they were talking about saying that seeds release enzymes and other good shit into the water they soak in and it helps them grow over the first few days of life...It sounded good they looked the part, one was a Dr of some kind. or so they claimed. .....lol.
Anyways I have great success popping and growing out sprouts. Somewhere in my vast amount of old grey matter I retain bits and pieces of shit that's can be useful, not all is, some was stoned at the time of learning so??? its not always 100% accurate

 

[Stoneyluv]

ya know Zen i often forget just how north you are and the temp difference.. for some reason in my head when i picture your location your just above me north a little bit. i have no idea why, i think because when you first told me and i looked i saw great lakes and just bundled you in that area for some reason. I'm sure your thermometer does not agree!!! hahaha

i'm sure that temp is all it is, they hate lowering in temp.

i forget if you have city water or not? i have well water, like Steams it's medium hard. i take it right from the hot tap at 100° and fill the rez and out that on the heat mat. but man you can only do so much when it's that cold up there in that igloo!!!!

i agree with Pipe, the minerals in the water are welcomed in growing!!! i only use distilled in growing mushrooms.

 

[Zen_seeker]

For what it is worth I use my tap water for the VG.
My water would be considered medium hard I think.
pH 7.6/GH 9 / KH 2-3 with TDS at 350+
I do adjust the pH for my plants just for shit and giggles.
I'll never know if it makes a difference. I manage to get something to act up almost every time for every plant~!

My water is city water. 155ppm last check was only a month ago. PH was good but haven’t checked that in a year.

Yep, tap water is my go to. Unless issues arise.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Back in the 90's when I first bought seeds they guaranteed them to pop if we followed their germinating instruction. They gave the paper towel method with Spring water. I've used it ever since, it still has good shit in it, its clean and its cheap. RO and distilled is devoid of everything plants need, including seedlings. its just wet.

I also always use the same water I soak the seeds in to soak the paper towel with. I saw a Youtube with guys in white suits that seemed to know what they were talking about saying that seeds release enzymes and other good shit into the water they soak in and it helps them grow over the first few days of life...It sounded good they looked the part, one was a Dr of some kind. or so they claimed. .....lol.
Anyways I have great success popping and growing out sprouts. Somewhere in my vast amount of old grey matter I retain bits and pieces of shit that's can be useful, not all is, some was stoned at the time of learning so??? its not always 100% accurate

You posted this somewhere before that I read. I’ve done that since. Whenever I pop in shotglasses I now dump that water into the next step. Usually red cups but I’ve been trying different things lately.

 

[Zen_seeker]

ya know Zen i often forget just how north you are and the temp difference.. for some reason in my head when i picture your location your just above me north a little bit. i have no idea why, i think because when you first told me and i looked i saw great lakes and just bundled you in that area for some reason. I'm sure your thermometer does not agree!!! hahaha

Well we haven’t had to call the army to come dig us out in over a decade so that’s good. I know some would argue the point but I honestly think we’ve gotten off light the last 5-10 years. A couple of days of heavy snow here and there. A few scattered weeks of medium cold temps. And maybe a blizzard or two.

It’s gotten to the point news weather is now given in millimeters rather than centimetres. That’s like using 1/8ths in place of inches.
One to two hours in any compass direction from us seems to have had things worse.

i'm sure that temp is all it is, they hate lowering in temp.

Coldest the basement has been in one day is 13-14*c, that I recall. That was that cold snap that passed through for a week.

i forget if you have city water or not? i have well water, like Steams it's medium hard. i take it right from the hot tap at 100° and fill the rez and out that on the heat mat. but man you can only do so much when it's that cold up there in that igloo!!!!

I think it’s because we have a walkout basement. Two sides exposed and around 1970’s idea of insulation. Mainfloor is brick and the original 1’x3’ gyproc tiles with plaster over it. No insulation in the walls. The outside walls do have a sheet of aluminum foil looking coating on the back of the gyproc. I assume that’s to be a water barrier between the bricks and the gypsum.

i agree with Pipe, the minerals in the water are welcomed in growing!!! i only use distilled in growing mushrooms.

When I first started having trouble I tried different things I had on had that’s was suggested or I thought might help.

Tap water is my main source for indoor. Bottled water if handy or convenient. Water barrels for outdoor. I may add H2O2 when trying things or to kill anything other than the plant. Most often added to seed popping water.

 

[Zen_seeker]

20250213: Seedling Day x/x


Things are still moving pretty slow. The largest is getting to the point we’ll need to either move it or top it again.

The smaller one is doing good now but needs to be topped. Right back to her fugly stage. We’ll see this weekend.


The clone is doing good.


Roots seem to be coming in on time. Just tap water in a shot glass. I top it off one day, replace all the water the next time.


Yeah the pics suck. Wasn’t wearing my glasses and it’s a very old iphone.

That just leaves the seed transplant we did on the weekend. This popped up Tuesday morning.

This is Tuesday night.


So that just leaves one seed left thing the VG I haven’t peeked at yet.

Still bummed out and trying to get it together to deal with the next stage of my fight with the city. You have no idea how hard it is getting out of bed these days.

I’ll catch up on everyone’s threads next time, I’m finally tired. I’ve read most from outside anyway.

Got to remember to look up that Toronto Star article @Bandit420 posted.

 

[Pipecarver]

You posted this somewhere before that I read. I’ve done that since. Whenever I pop in shotglasses I now dump that water into the next step. Usually red cups but I’ve been trying different things lately.

I don't know if it works or not but it sounded good and I'm pretty successful at popping seeds so who knows. I need to see that video again and take note of the who the folks in the white suits & pocket protectors were.

 

[Zen_seeker]

I don't know if it works or not but it sounded good and I'm pretty successful at popping seeds so who knows. I need to see that video again and take note of the who the folks in the white suits & pocket protectors were.

I tried looking for it or any info on using the water seeds were germinated in. Found lots on different ways to germinate. Some on enzymes and/or bio info. But nothing specific about using the water after.

I did notice a few of the shot glass germination vids always used the water either on paper towels or soil after the seeds popped so maybe it’s just a given?

If you find that vid I’ll give it a watch.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Back to a foot of snow. Supposed to get more Saturday and Sunday.

 

[Pipecarver]

View attachment 89805

Back to a foot of snow. Supposed to get more Saturday and Sunday.

We're getting some now followed with freezing rain then rain then freezing dropping into the-10 area again. 0* C now and it sounds like freezing rain, small pellets of ice. Should be fun on the roads. I'm parked indoors so it won't be me out there.

 

[Zen_seeker]

We're getting some now followed with freezing rain then rain then freezing dropping into the-10 area again. 0* C now and it sounds like freezing rain, small pellets of ice. Should be fun on the roads. I'm parked indoors so it won't be me out there.

It sounds like Saturday isn’t getting snow now, just more Sunday.

Shovelling the driveway was a pita. Drifts up to my knees and the city dumped all the snow from the bus shelter beside and on my driveway. So now I have a huge mound I have to deal with. No need for it either as the other side is all empty space that is city property. The guys in the CAT just find it easier to use my driveway.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Son and I moved everything out of the top zone into the taller lower zone. The last seed popped but stalled so we tossed it.

We topped the larger plant again and will be leaving it until it’s time to transplant for SCROG. The smaller needs to be topped but not yet.

We have two seedlings doing okay and one just starting along with an almost ready to plant clone in a shot glass.

 

[doublej]

It sounds like Saturday isn’t getting snow now, just more Sunday.

Shovelling the driveway was a pita. Drifts up to my knees and the city dumped all the snow from the bus shelter beside and on my driveway. So now I have a huge mound I have to deal with. No need for it either as the other side is all empty space that is city property. The guys in the CAT just find it easier to use my driveway.

View attachment 89873View attachment 89874

Bastards

 

[Zen_seeker]

20250217: Seedlings Day 46 & 40

Both are doing okay. Cold nights and low humidity aren’t helping. Rather than rewire everything again I just sat the soft pot trays on a foam sheet. Then changed which passive vents are open/closed. Seems to have helped. RH is low 50’s to high 60’s now. Once we really start watering that will improve. Temps are more of a concern. It drops to the mid teens some nights.

Last nights feeding time.


This morning at lights out.

I see the RH is up nicely. Still at 19* which isn’t bad.

I moved the fan up to light level as it’s to strong. Now they dance a bit.

The clone and new seedling are doing good as well. Just slow. These seedling trays and germination pots have me a little concerned about over watering. I’ve been letting it dry out a lot before letting bottom feed again. It’s been working but not as well as with red cups. Still adjusting things and dealing with winter so it’s not a fair test yet.

The roots for the clone are thick and short but they are growing. Normally they get much longer and thinner by this time. But considering the conditions and it’s just sitting in a shotglass with water I’m not complaining.

Sons looking after the two plants while I deal with the clone and seedling at this time. Most likely he’ll keep the big plants and I’ll run the two small ones, pending sex check later on.

Still think it’s nuts I can grow a clone with little trouble right now but seeds are an issue until spring. Ah well, keep improving as we go. Not like we’re in a hurry for the next harvest.

This pics from the 13th, four days earlier. I’d just made some changes.

Clones roots were still nubs.

Still trying to deal with personal issues. Son’s bedroom ceiling started leaking water all over his hobby desk. Came in from the ceiling fan. Guessing it’s the ridge cap vents. But it’s only 6’ to 8’ from the old chimney and water hunts for the easiest way so who knows. Can’t do anything about it right now other than call the roofer anyway.

Snow got as high as our windows downstairs without drifting. That was unexpected. It got higher but I took this pic earlier.

Anyway. Back to shovelling. L8r.

 

[Pipecarver]

Hey, for heat I've added 2 reptile lamps 1-75w and 1 -150 watt. With a sleeping bag over my tent I'm able to keep the temps up to 24-25C in my veg tent along with a cheap $40 humidifier I can keep it at 65%. We just got a dumping of about 3" pellet ice then rain and freeze. Ain't winter up north here grand? just another 4 months...I'm counting the days

 

[Zen_seeker]

Pics from last night, still holding on. Looking a bit better. Bumping up the next feed mix. So far it’s just Base and Grow with a pinch of Epsom for the plants, just water for the clone and new seedling.

Feed Mix: .75 & 1.5 per 500ml
Base 4:0:0 6ml/g
Grow 2:2:4 12ml/g
Epsom Pinch

Up until now it’s been about a litre for the older plant and 500ml for the smaller. All hand fed where we want the root structure to expand too.

Next feeding will probably flood the top of the soft pot and watch for runoff.

A lot of changes will be coming due to all the plants being in the same zone. We want to move two to SCROG as soon as possible but I think another up transplant should be done first.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Transplanting the clone and putting in a tray with the new seedling.

Added some rooting powder as well.




Everything’s looking alright for now.


He’s doing good for his first time. All things considered. -11* outside today and the basement has been 16* tops. Once these two little ones start to take off or get established we’ll up pot the two larger ones for SCROG.

Now I hope we avoid any males.

 

[Zen_seeker]

20250221: seedling Day 50/44

Plants needed some cleaning up yesterday. Gave them a Litre of food each after. (1.5L gives runoff.)

Trying to keep them short and branchy before up pot and move.

Before


Now


Clone and seedling are doing well.

RH seems to be okay and manageable but temps drop to the high teens at lights out. Lights out is between 7am and 1pm or it would be worse.

But other than slowing things down it’s progressing. Sons starting to ask questions while I show him things the first time and he does it from there. Getting him used to lifting the pots. Mixing the nutrients and cleaning as you go. Choosing which branch or leaf to trim. Stuff like that. Showing him what to watch out for and how to correct things.

Even explaining things I don’t often do like checking ph and ppm. Why I do check LUX and use a hygrometer. What’s worked in the past bud what I still need to try or improve. Only about an hour or so every few days but that’s all it takes right now.

 

[Zen_seeker]

20250222: Clone and new seedling update.

Roots are peeking out for both. Might have to transplant tomorrow.

That clone better be female. Haven’t seen any signs of sex from the mother yet.

Otherwise things are okay. RH was 77% when I opened the tent to check things. Temperature was only 20* though. Have an idea for that…

 

[Pipecarver]

20250222: Clone and new seedling update.

Roots are peeking out for both. Might have to transplant tomorrow. View attachment 90676View attachment 90677View attachment 90678

That clone better be female. Haven’t seen any signs of sex from the mother yet.

Otherwise things are okay. RH was 77% when I opened the tent to check things. Temperature was only 20* though. Have an idea for that…
View attachment 90679

Hey, looks good, nice healthy green to them. I think we'll be flipping close to the same time. I have all of my plants transplanted into the Autopots, tent cleaned,trays & new water line's. I had serious blocking in my lines with biofilm build up. I bought a filter for the next run and new water line should do the trick at keeping it clean this time.

Yes my basement is cold too & fking dry. I have 2 humidifiers in my tent running full speed and I can barely get to 50%RH in my 5x5. Do you use trivets at all under your pots? I don't see any lift off the tent floor or do I just have bad eyes?