⚡Electrical Help Thread⚡

[tobh]

this is a thing? how will one go about that, start googling my State AG?

because the apartment management is ignoring my electrical concerns?


ill get an attorney if i fucking need to.

all the little issues upon move in and being ignored about them is just infuriating me, and walking into my daughters room and smelling fucking Mold maybe ???

from what i am thinking is also who ever cleaned the carpets in that room fucked it up tremendously.

there is no ceiling fan and i bet they did not even use fans, therefore water in a stale environment, i dont know.

it smells not-pleasant like shampoo and bacteria or some shit.

and then the electrical bullshit?

if you turn the garbage disposal on, the lights briefly dim too.

Yeah, just Google your states attorney general office. They'll have a contact form or maybe even a phone number. I hope you've documented every time you've reached out to management about issues, but they proof will be needed if it makes it all the way to court.

It is somewhat expected to see lights dim slightly when initially starting a high load appliance like a garage disposal. The lights should bounce back after it's started running though. That initial amp draw can be pretty significant.

 

[Observer]

Yeah, just Google your states attorney general office. They'll have a contact form or maybe even a phone number. I hope you've documented every time you've reached out to management about issues, but they proof will be needed if it makes it all the way to court.

It is somewhat expected to see lights dim slightly when initially starting a high load appliance like a garage disposal. The lights should bounce back after it's started running though. That initial amp draw can be pretty significant.

Oh yeah, voicemails phone calls time stamps emails

Thanks guys

 

[tobh]

WTF is going on here? I've not seen a red wire yet... This switch controls two lights, and there's another switch on the circuit that controls the same lights. Thinking the single pole switch I bought to replace this one was a bad purchase..

 

[GoodShit97]

WTF is going on here? I've not seen a red wire yet... This switch controls two lights, and there's another switch on the circuit that controls the same lights. Thinking the single pole switch I bought to replace this one was a bad purchase..
View attachment 22797

I believe you would need a 3 way switch if it controls 2 lights

 

[tobh]

I believe you would need a 3 way switch if it controls 2 lights

that's what i was thinking, especially given there's that secondary switch too. i looked up how those are wired about a month ago because i was curious, didn't take that into account when i was at the big orange box store. oh well. luckily flipping breakers is easy. will make sure to pay better attention when i go back to the store again. swear at this point i live there half the time.

 

[GoodShit97]

that's what i was thinking, especially given there's that secondary switch too. i looked up how those are wired about a month ago because i was curious, didn't take that into account when i was at the big orange box store. oh well. luckily flipping breakers is easy. will make sure to pay better attention when i go back to the store again. swear at this point i live there half the time.

Dude when i redid my trailer wiring it was an absolute nightware. A lot of the stuff i ended up just taking right out and running new wire because it was easier to just crawl under the place and rip it out.

You're gonna make 400 more trips to that orange box store... lmao.

Itll be worth it in the end tho man.

 

[GoodShit97]

I believe its the red wire that is a constant power even when one switch is off that way the other one still controls the same circuit.

My electrical is rusty so take it with a grain of salt lol.
I dont do it daily and usually have to call my father to confirm everything i do so i dont blow shit up lmao

 

[tobh]

Dude when i redid my trailer wiring it was an absolute nightware. A lot of the stuff i ended up just taking right out and running new wire because it was easier to just crawl under the place and rip it out.

You're gonna make 400 more trips to that orange box store... lmao.

Itll be worth it in the end tho man.

lucky most of what i've found looks to be done correctly based off my limited understanding. most everything is grounded with the exception of a few switches. every outlet i've replaced has been grounded.

nothing shady has been found, yet, aside from in the utility room where that's just a can of worms due to the previous owners operation. but there's no telling what else is gonna be found. i'm just a dumb homeowner doing simple shit for aesthetic reasons only lol

 

[steamroller]

3 ways let you interrupt or activate the light from either location.
The red is the common attach to the black terminal screw on most 3 way switches.
You wanna have fun hook up a 4 way with 3 separate switches~!

 

[tobh]

lucky most of what i've found looks to be done correctly based off my limited understanding. most everything is grounded with the exception of a few switches. every outlet i've replaced has been grounded.

nothing shady has been found, yet, aside from in the utility room where that's just a can of worms due to the previous owners operation. but there's no telling what else is gonna be found. i'm just a dumb homeowner doing simple shit for aesthetic reasons only lol

shit, that's a good idea! i'll shoot the pic to my buddy that's a master electrician. he'll confirm for sure.

 

[tobh]

3 ways let you interrupt or activate the light from either location.
The red is the common attach to the black terminal screw on most 3 way switches.
You wanna have fun hook up a 4 way with 3 separate switches~!

there are a couple of those in this house. i don't look forward to the day i'm changing those out for non-builder grade shit. luckily swapping switches tends to be an exercise of moving wires to their respective locations lol good looking out! confirmation is super helpful.

 

[Pipecarver]

I believe its the red wire that is a constant power even when one switch is off that way the other one still controls the same circuit.

My electrical is rusty so take it with a grain of salt lol.
I dont do it daily and usually have to call my father to confirm everything i do so i dont blow shit up lmao

I could be wrong too its been a while as well but I believe the Black is hot with 2 travellers. There is no neutral there. The neutral's are spliced together in the box and it is a 3 way.

 

[tobh]

I could be wrong too its been a while as well but I believe the Black is hot with 2 travellers. There is no neutral there. The neutral's are spliced together in the box

yeah, i think you're right. the common is functioning as the neutral, the neutral in this case goes on to feed the lights, and the black is the constant.

 

[GrumpAzz]

WTF is going on here? I've not seen a red wire yet... This switch controls two lights, and there's another switch on the circuit that controls the same lights. Thinking the single pole switch I bought to replace this one was a bad purchase..
View attachment 22797

So in this situation, most likely, your power hits the light first, then down to the switch with 12/2, then over and back in that 12/3. My best guess is that the black wire on the switch is your HOT. The red and white are the TRAVELERS over to the other 3-way switch. The black from the 12/3, the one that's tied to the white of the 12/2, is the SWITCHLEG from the second 3-way straight to the lights. Your whites, in this case, will occasionally be HOT.

3-ways have nothing to do with the number of lights being switched on. 3-ways come into play when you have more than one switching location. 3 or more requires 4-ways between the 3-ways.

 

[GoodShit97]

I could be wrong too its been a while as well but I believe the Black is hot with 2 travellers. There is no neutral there. The neutral's are spliced together in the box and it is a 3 way.

I honestly dont remember, Its been too long and the only 3 way i have is in my hallway and i always struggled with 3 way and 4 way switches

 

[Pipecarver]

The hot and neutral enter the box as a 2 wire and the red and white and black on the 3 wire. For some reason they used a white as a travelling hot rather than Red and Black. It looks like they spliced the black to the white making the black neutral at the other end and the white a switched hot?????/ that's not right imho red and black should be the switched hots not the white.......

 

[tobh]

So in this situation, most likely, your power hits the light first, then down to the switch with 12/2, then over and back in that 12/3. My best guess is that the black wire on the switch is your HOT. The red and white are the TRAVELERS over to the other 3-way switch. The black from the 12/3, the one that's tied to the white of the 12/2, is the SWITCHLEG from the second 3-way straight to the lights. Your whites, in this case, will occasionally be HOT.

3-ways have nothing to do with the number of lights being switched on. 3-ways come into play when you have more than one switching location. 3 or more requires 4-ways between the 3-ways.

awesome, appreciate the explanation. the red threw me as i've not seen that color yet and was like "wtf are you?" especially since it wasn't just a short patch wire to extend another, it goes into that 12/3 like you said.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I could be wrong too its been a while as well but I believe the Black is hot with 2 travellers. There is no neutral there. The neutral's are spliced together in the box and it is a 3 way.

This is sort of right. The NEUTRAL is up in the light box and never comes down to the switch. Those whites in the switch box need to be identified with a strip of tape indicating that they're not neutrals.

 

[tobh]

it really doesn't help i've got a mix of white romex and this black 12g wire. i don't really understand why there's the mix between the two, especially since half the switches i've swapped are fed by white romex and the others the black shit.

 

[Pipecarver]

So in this situation, most likely, your power hits the light first, then down to the switch with 12/2, then over and back in that 12/3. My best guess is that the black wire on the switch is your HOT. The red and white are the TRAVELERS over to the other 3-way switch. The black from the 12/3, the one that's tied to the white of the 12/2, is the SWITCHLEG from the second 3-way straight to the lights. Your whites, in this case, will occasionally be HOT.

3-ways have nothing to do with the number of lights being switched on. 3-ways come into play when you have more than one switching location. 3 or more requires 4-ways between the 3-ways.

All #14 there 12's too big and unnecessary for residential lighting circuits

 

[tobh]

This is sort of right. The NEUTRAL is up in the light box and never comes down to the switch. Those whites in the switch box need to be identified with a strip of tape indicating that they're not neutrals.

what's the standard for indicating that? do i just write on a piece of tape saying "not neutral" or is there a special nomenclature?

figure while in rome i might as well make it right. if for nothing else than my future self.

 

[tobh]

All #14 there 12's too big and unnecessary for residential lighting circuits

remember, this house was used for a massive grow op and the previous owners ran new lines for a bunch of shit and might've just used their #12 when they put everything back to "normal"

 

[GrumpAzz]

what's the standard for indicating that? do i just write on a piece of tape saying "not neutral" or is there a special nomenclature?

figure while in rome i might as well make it right. if for nothing else than my future self.

A strip of black tape technically identifies it as a current carrying conductor. If it's in conduit, you're not allowed to run a white wire for a current carrying conductor but they allow it in residential to "save wire".

 

[tobh]

A strip of black tape technically identifies it as a current carrying conductor. If it's in conduit, you're not allowed to run a white wire for a current carrying conductor but they allow it in residential to "save wire".

cool. so just standard electrical tape will suffice?

 

[GrumpAzz]

All #14 there 12's too big and unnecessary for residential lighting circuits

I understand it's not necessary but, if it's on a 20 amp breaker, you can't run #14 legally. Those definitely look like 12s to me.

 

[Pipecarver]

remember, this house was used for a massive grow op and the previous owners ran new lines for a bunch of shit and might've just used their #12 when they put everything back to "normal"

I can tell the difference and that is all #14 in the box. I can see how it fits the quick wires and how big the 3 wire is entering the box.

I see the 2 wire coming in with a hot and neutral. spliced off the neutral to the light along with the red and black, coming off the switch. then at the light another 3 wire to another switch.

Also that is a yellow #33 Marrette a # 35 would be used on 2 #12's.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I can tell the difference and that is all #14 in the box. I can see how it fits the quick wires and how big the 3 wire is entering the box.

Neither one of us can tell what gauge wire that is, for certain, by looking at this picture. Tobh did, however, mention black #12 romex in his house.

I see the 2 wire coming in with a hot and neutral. spliced off the neutral to the light along with the red and black, coming off the switch. then at the light another 3 wire to another switch.

We'll just have to agree to disagree here, but I'd put money on the fact that if he pulled out the other 3-way, he's only gonna find one 3-wire romex with all three wires landed on the switch. I'll up the odds by betting the black wire in that box is landed on the black screw of the switch.

Also that is a yellow #33 Marrette a # 35 would be used on 2 #12's.

Yellow wirenuts, at least here in the states, are rated for up to 3 #12 conductors. Reds are rated for up to 5. If you want, I can verify this by going out to my work truck and snapping a picture of the bag of nuts.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Careful with this one right here @tobh. It looks like the rockers nicked that one when they cut out the box. Might throw some tape on it while you have the switch pulled out.

 

[tobh]

Careful with this one right here @tobh. It looks like the rockers nicked that one when they cut out the box. Might throw some tape on it while you have the switch pulled out.
View attachment 22800

damn, good catch! i have enough wire in the box i can likely just cut back to that point. Fuck the future guy, i don't need fire hazards lol

 

[Pipecarver]

Careful with this one right here @tobh. It looks like the rockers nicked that one when they cut out the box. Might throw some tape on it while you have the switch pulled out.
View attachment 22800

Nope #14 all the way, You see the 3 grounds crimped together? 3 #12 are larger than that. We called those boxes 11-10's and #12 would fill that box more. Okay on the #33's I was pushing you on that..... Somewhere on those wire will be written the size. I can see the writing on one but I can't make out what it says. Regardless #12 or #14 they both do the same job.. Why would you have 5 wires in a dead end 3 way? The 2 wire is the feed.

 

[tobh]

Alright! Now for the next questionable question ladies and gentlemen.

What's the safest way to check if a line going to a dead end junction box is live, less a touchless voltage or amperage tester?

I've found a junction box that has a 14/3 line running to it with no load. I don't have touchless testers, nor want to spend the money on one, so thinking about using a multimeter to check if there's some voltage coming through. What kind of PPE should i wear? rubber gloves? anything else?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Alright! Now for the next questionable question ladies and gentlemen.

What's the safest way to check if a line going to a dead end junction box is live, less a touchless voltage or amperage tester?

I've found a junction box that has a 14/3 line running to it with no load. I don't have touchless testers, nor want to spend the money on one, so thinking about using a multimeter to check if there's some voltage coming through. What kind of PPE should i wear? rubber gloves? anything else?

aluminum foil undies couldn't hurt...

nah man if you have a meter you'll be fine. yeah touchless are nice but not necessary i never rely on one, always double check with a meter anyway.

gloves might make it cumbersome to work with. my advice is be calm, confident, and steady. be comfortable with it. don't stand in a puddle of water and you'll be fine.

is the cable sheared off in the box with all the conductors unexposed? or is the sheath of the cable torn back exposing each individual wire? are the ends stripped back with copper exposed or connectors on the ends at all?

is the junction box metal?

 

[tobh]

aluminum foil undies couldn't hurt...

nah man if you have a meter you'll be fine. yeah touchless are nice but not necessary i never rely on one, always double check with a meter anyway.

gloves might make it cumbersome to work with. my advice is be calm, confident, and steady. be comfortable with it. don't stand in a puddle of water and you'll be fine.

is the cable sheared off in the box with all the conductors unexposed? or is the sheath of the cable torn back exposing each individual wire? are the ends stripped back with copper exposed or connectors on the ends at all?

is the junction box metal?

I haven't opened the box yet because I'm a bit sketched out about how it's installed with how the line is ran, and given the fact it's a 14/3 line. I didn't even know romex came like that, but it's white, three wires that look almost like speaker wire type coating, and definitely 14 gauge.

The box is a round box like you'd see a camera or flood light mounted to. Since I don't know what I'll find inside I haven't touched it to figure out if it's metal or plastic either. If it contains a live line, uncapped wires, and one of the energized lines is touching the box I don't want to become the path of least resistance, ya know?

Hence wondering what kind of PPE to use, mostly. Figure some rubber gloves would at least insulate me from being the easy way out.

 

[tobh]

That being said, I've used multimeters with the shitty cotton mickey mouse gloves in the oil path. it's amazing the dexterity you gain when you don't know where your fingers are lol

 

[Stoneyluv]

I haven't opened the box yet because I'm a bit sketched out about how it's installed with how the line is ran, and given the fact it's a 14/3 line. I didn't even know romex came like that, but it's white, three wires that look almost like speaker wire type coating, and definitely 14 gauge.

The box is a round box like you'd see a camera or flood light mounted to. Since I don't know what I'll find inside I haven't touched it to figure out if it's metal or plastic either. If it contains a live line, uncapped wires, and one of the energized lines is touching the box I don't want to become the path of least resistance, ya know?

Hence wondering what kind of PPE to use, mostly. Figure some rubber gloves would at least insulate me from being the easy way out.

you're approaching it right man, always assume it's live till you prove it's not.

the wire touching the box, is it purposely attached or is it just leaning against accidentally? if it's a plastic box than it don't matter. if it's a metal box then use your one meter lead on the metal box and focus your other meter lead to one of the other wires one at a time while glancing at the meter... keep the meter out in front of you so you can keep your eyes on the box and meter so you're not looking away when your hands are close to copper.

and just try not to bridge any wires together using your meter lead. make sure each lead only touches one wire at a time.

just hold the meter lead by the plastic and don't touch any metal with it while touching the wire, like the edge of the box or screws or something.

 

[Stoneyluv]

and if there is absolutely no way you an tell if the box is hot itself without touching it than quickly touch it with the back of your finger... if you do get shocked your muscles contact and it will close your hand pulling your finger away from the arc path. more important in DC but still good practice.

 

[tobh]

you're approaching it right man, always assume it's live till you prove it's not.

the wire touching the box, is it purposely attached or is it just leaning against accidentally? if it's a plastic box than it don't matter. if it's a metal box then use your one meter lead on the metal box and focus your other meter lead to one of the other wires one at a time while glancing at the meter... keep the meter out in front of you so you can keep your eyes on the box and meter so you're not looking away when your hands are close to copper.

and just try not to bridge any wires together using your meter lead. make sure each lead only touches one wire at a time.

just hold the meter lead by the plastic and don't touch any metal with it while touching the wire, like the edge of the box or screws or something.

and if there is absolutely no way you an tell if the box is hot itself without touching it than quickly touch it with the back of your finger... if you do get shocked your muscles contact and it will close your hand pulling your finger away from the arc path. more important in DC but still good practice.

Ok, first quote, I took as you misunderstanding what I said, but second quote gives me the best course of action. Given the paint or coating on the junction box, would 120V on a 15A circuit carry enough to move through weathered paint?

I am super hesitant to take a screw driver to pull the cover off that box simply because I assume the circuit is live, since the wire comes from the garage and the location is ideal for either a camera (low voltage) or flood light (still low voltage, but not 5v low, likely 120v)

 

[Stoneyluv]

Ok, first quote, I took as you misunderstanding what I said, but second quote gives me the best course of action. Given the paint or coating on the junction box, would 120V on a 15A circuit carry enough to move through weathered paint?

I am super hesitant to take a screw driver to pull the cover off that box simply because I assume the circuit is live, since the wire comes from the garage and the location is ideal for either a camera (low voltage) or flood light (still low voltage, but not 5v low, likely 120v)

if it's painted it's most likely metal. electricity is kinda like a rattlesnake, it gives you a warning first sometimes... even lightning gives you a warning before striking you believe it or not. but just touch it quick, like graze it with your finger. if it's hot it's tingle al little, it won't knock you on you ass or anything. graze it as quick as possible, don't catch your finger on a nail or anything crazy but a controlled quick swipe... if you don't feel anything swipe a little longer... keep doing that till ya got the balls to touch it. open it up, if it looks like a science project take a photo we'll walk ya through it.. if it looks straight forward continue on with your meter and be careful.

 

[Observer]

and if there is absolutely no way you an tell if the box is hot itself without touching it than quickly touch it with the back of your finger... if you do get shocked your muscles contact and it will close your hand pulling your finger away from the arc path. more important in DC but still good practice.

Clever

 

[Observer]

if it looks like a science project take a photo we'll walk ya through it..

Lmao


Id hope not