First Time.

[Aqua Man]

I like to see others thoughts, just too many ways to do this. Some work some don't, if it ain't broke

Imo nutrients are tinkered with to much and all these changing ratios is not needed. Until you establish a base line i suggest NOT tinkering with ratios. Start in the middle and stay there. Personally i feel this is the biggest reason ppl see issues. More complex must be better kinda thing…. Its just not the case.

While some benefits can be made more harm is usually done. And without a baseline you have no idea as to what may benefit.

 

[moe.red]

Ok so you went 3/2/1 as far as the trio goes.
Yeah I would've called it purple but I remember seeing at the Farm some time ago where it was being referred to as brown.

I’m never living that down. So maybe a little color blind?

 

[moe.red]

Imo nutrients are tinkered with to much and all these changing ratios is not needed. Until you establish a base line i suggest NOT tinkering with ratios. Start in the middle and stay there. Personally i feel this is the biggest reason ppl see issues. More complex must be better kinda thing…. Its just not the case.

While some benefits can be made more harm is usually done. And without a baseline you have no idea as to what may benefit.

Sage advice.

I’ve said this 100 times goal is to keep it on the fairway. Follow a middle of tre road approach with nutes. And do not over feed.

Easiest way to ensure no nute issues is res change weekly and lower than recommended ppm per the gh chart but same ratios as listed.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Sage advice.

I’ve said this 100 times goal is to keep it on the fairway. Follow a middle of tre road approach with nutes. And do not over feed.

Easiest way to ensure no nute issues is res change weekly and lower than recommended ppm per the gh chart but same ratios as listed.

We've been going on this batch of nutes for more than a month now. The sickly leaves showed up almost two weeks ago. Aqua got me straightened out with the tent environment and I have since added a bit of epsom. Maybe .75g/gal total in two treatments. I haven't amended whatsoever otherwise. The top-feed is quarter strength nute mix that's mostly RO and 5 gallons of the first batch of nutes that was around 350 ppm. Top-off res is nearly empty so that's what got me wanting to do a res change. This discussion has reaffirmed that. I have a batch of silicate sitting idle for now and I'll mix a new round of nutes tomorrow. She's pushing a gallon per day now and is almost due for a lollipopping and a new light schedule.

I'd say we're doing pretty darn good, guys. All your help is much appreciated. She's gonna produce, no doubt. I'm shopping around for a dehuey and another fan. Bud rot is my current paranoia

 

[smoke]

Imo nutrients are tinkered with to much and all these changing ratios is not needed. Until you establish a base line i suggest NOT tinkering with ratios. Start in the middle and stay there. Personally i feel this is the biggest reason ppl see issues. More complex must be better kinda thing…. Its just not the case.

While some benefits can be made more harm is usually done. And without a baseline you have no idea as to what may benefit.

Our approach using gh 3 part hasn't changed in 10 years, 321 in veg, 222 transition 7 days, 123 flower.
I have mentioned to my wife that we always seem to limp home from week 5. She says everything looks good from the highway

 

[GrumpAzz]

What's stopping me from hanging a box fan from the tent ceiling? I'm positive I've got the space above the light. Hell... what's stopping me from supporting a box fan with my bar light?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Snuck a peek at the root system while the water was being swapped.

Ended up at 690 ppms with a 4/4/2 ratio on the trio. Added .5ml/gal CalMag and a couple pinches of epsom, roughly .5g/gal. Orca and fulvic were added tonthe plant res after the swap at 1ml/gal.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Current state of the room.
79-80*
55-56%

And the water.
690 ppm
70-72*
5.8 pH

Using the two smaller fans to push the heater and humidifier up and away from the plant and I added a 20 inch box fan directly above it all.

Roots looked pretty dark after the change but there's a lot more brown in the mix this time around.
View attachment 20230709_161254.mp4

 

[Aqua Man]

Current state of the room.
79-80*
55-56%

And the water.
690 ppm
70-72*
5.8 pH

Using the two smaller fans to push the heater and humidifier up and away from the plant and I added a 20 inch box fan directly above it all.

Roots looked pretty dark after the change but there's a lot more brown in the mix this time around.
View attachment 12405

Point those fans away from the plants… they will get wind burned. Aim along the walls to make a cyclone type effect that will give you the best air mixing

 

[GrumpAzz]

Point those fans away from the plants… they will get wind burned. Aim along the walls to make a cyclone type effect that will give you the best air mixing

Word I'll turn them a little bit. My main objective with how they're aimed was to keep the heater from hitting the plant. Twisting them a bit should still accomplish that, yeah?

Is that too much airflow from above? Because that new ceiling fan is on low.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Word I'll turn them a little bit. My main objective with how they're aimed was to keep the heater from hitting the plant. Twisting them a bit should still accomplish that, yeah?

Is that too much airflow from above? Because that new ceiling fan is on low.

I sucked it up a little tighter to the ceiling which limited the airflow a bit. I'll keep an eye on heat from the motor.

 

[Rootsruler]

I've been looking for a tower fan with heat function and thermostat that I can program to do "fan only" unless it hits a particular temperature that activates the heater when it gets colder than I would like. So far I haven't found one.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I've been looking for a tower fan with heat function and thermostat that I can program to do "fan only" unless it hits a particular temperature that activates the heater when it gets colder than I would like. So far I haven't found one.

My leaf temps were nearly 5 degrees warmer on the heater side so I moved a smaller fan down and hung that box fan from the ceiling. My aim is to keep the heater from directly heating the plant.

 

[Rootsruler]

My leaf temps were nearly 5 degrees warmer on the heater side so I moved a smaller fan down and hung that box fan from the ceiling. My aim is to keep the heater from directly heating the plant.

The tower fan I'm looking for will oscillate. One of the reasons I'm looking at a tower fan is so that I can eliminate having 2 fans in the tent. I'm planning on mounting it in one of the corners and have it sweep across the top of the canopy while still moving air through the canopy and under the canopy at the same time. My only issue is if that will be enough air movement at the other corner of the 5 x 5.

I currently have a Honeywell Turbo Force fan I use for air circulation. I like the build quality and the amount of air it moves but it doesn't oscillate. If the tower fan doesn't work I'll go with the same Honeywell fan but the oscillating model. I'll hang it upside down on the roof and point it towards the top of the canopy to get good air flow through the canopy along with getting some branch sway to strengthen the branches. The stationary Honeywell will do undercanopy duty.

For heat I'll have to run an inkbird or similar T-stat and run a small heater inside the tent to keep temps in range on lights out.

 

[GrumpAzz]

The tower fan I'm looking for will oscillate. One of the reasons I'm looking at a tower fan is so that I can eliminate having 2 fans in the tent. I'm planning on mounting it in one of the corners and have it sweep across the top of the canopy while still moving air through the canopy and under the canopy at the same time. My only issue is if that will be enough air movement at the other corner of the 5 x 5.

I currently have a Honeywell Turbo Force fan I use for air circulation. I like the build quality and the amount of air it moves but it doesn't oscillate. If the tower fan doesn't work I'll go with the same Honeywell fan but the oscillating model. I'll hang it upside down on the roof and point it towards the top of the canopy to get good air flow through the canopy along with getting some branch sway to strengthen the branches. The stationary Honeywell will do undercanopy duty.

For heat I'll have to run an inkbird or similar T-stat and run a small heater inside the tent to keep temps in range on lights out.

I've got two 9" fans pushing the heat up around with a 20" box fan pointed straight down onto the canopy, now. I was running with the two smaller fans until today when I revamped how it all layed out. I'll check leaf temps tomorrow after work and hopefully I can close the gap.

Tower fans will surely be incorporated into the next grow. I'll have to check back in with ya to see if you got it figured out when the time comes.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Nearly all of my tops have been tucked. All that have been tucked have turned up except for two. They'll turn tomorrow, surely. I moved the light up to 28 inches above the screen and raised intensity to 27%. 28 inches to allow the shoots to grow 4" and remain at least 24" from the light. My squares are 3x3 so 4 inches gives them length to tuck.

I'm flying by the seat of my pants here. I gave her another trim last night. How long should I wait for a lollipopping? Can I FIM the tops at the same time?

Top shot

 

[Aqua Man]

Nearly all of my tops have been tucked. All that have been tucked have turned up except for two. They'll turn tomorrow, surely. I moved the light up to 28 inches above the screen and raised intensity to 27%. 28 inches to allow the shoots to grow 4" and remain at least 24" from the light. My squares are 3x3 so 4 inches gives them length to tuck.

I'm flying by the seat of my pants here. I gave her another trim last night. How long should I wait for a lollipopping? Can I FIM the tops at the same time?

Top shotView attachment 12595

Are you doing @CannaGranny scrog?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Are you doing @CannaGranny scrog?

Sorta. She smashed down a screen on a much more mature plant. I'm kind of following her methodology with topping twice and FIMing before flip, but my screen and tucking isn't in line with her method. It's what I picked up from a "scrog tutorial" long before I popped my first bean.

 

[Aqua Man]

Can you take a shot further back… looks to me like you ready to flip possibility already

 

[GrumpAzz]

Can you take a shot further back… looks to me like you ready to flip possibility already

I've been thinking about running and tucking everything until the screen is nearly full before flipping. I'm just ignorant to what happens during "stretch" so I figured I'd let it happen vertically.

 

[Aqua Man]

I've been thinking about running and tucking everything until the screen is nearly full before flipping. I'm just ignorant to what happens during "stretch" so I figured I'd let it happen vertically.
View attachment 12601

3/4 full and flip keep tucking for 1 week after flip is what worked for me.

@CannaGranny @TSD do you ladies mind advising him on this? Been a while since i have scrogged

 

[GrumpAzz]

3/4 full and flip keep tucking for 1 week after flip is what worked for me.

@CannaGranny @TSD do you ladies mind advising him on this? Been a while since i have scrogged

CannaGranny gave her two cents, which was much appreciated, but it was hard to do something that was so different than what I had been "planning" when it came to the smashing. That's where I diverged. Otherwise, I've topped twice now and will FIM a week before flower, as per her methods.

 

[Aqua Man]

Im thinking your about a week to flip… not much longer than that… and the growth during stretch is nuts so imo better to flip a bit early than to late… especially if you dont know the genetics

 

[GrumpAzz]

Im thinking your about a week to flip… not much longer than that… and the growth during stretch is nuts so imo better to flip a bit early than to late… especially if you dont know the genetics

Ok so with that timeframe in mind, and knowing I trimmed a bit last night... will I be able to pull of a lollipop and a FIM in say 2 weeks?

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok so with that timeframe in mind, and knowing I trimmed a bit last night... will I be able to pull of a lollipop and a FIM in say 2 weeks?

Hard for me to say but im thinking about a week to flip. I can’t say for certain because I haven’t really seen the growth timeline and dont know the stretch of those genetics.

Plants in hydro recover extremely fast so it’s different than soil time wise and recovery wise.

You can lolipop them now… there is no benefit to waiting to do so at this point

 

[CannaGranny]

Ok so with that timeframe in mind, and knowing I trimmed a bit last night... will I be able to pull of a lollipop and a FIM in say 2 weeks?

I lollypop the day I go to flower and I fim the last week of veg Just before flower. You sure don’t want to wait a week after going to flower or you will pinch off all of your flower heads. Just couldn’t do the smash huh?

 

[Aqua Man]

I just seen @CannaGranny lurkin here so see what she has to say on it

 

[GrumpAzz]

I lollypop the day I go to flower and I fim the last week of veg Just before flower. You sure don’t want to wait a week after going to flower or you will pinch off all of your flower heads. Just couldn’t do the smash huh?

Sweet. I was thinking lollipop first so I'm glad you poked your head in. Thanks Granny.

Didn't go with the smash Combination of things. I think I stunted her with a seedling environment for too long. Aqua fixed me up there. Then, I was a bit uncomfortable will how far out my limbs were already growing with the previously LST and was afraid the smash would a be little risky. My first grow so I went with what was already established as my "plan."

Plants in hydro recover extremely fast so it’s different than soil time wise and recovery wise.

Good to know. I've been taking a handful of fans off every 4-5 days since you straightened out my tent settings. Last night I removed the ugly "mag def" leaves to see if the res change stopped it's slow progression. I also pulled any lower limbs up that would reach the net. One branch from the lowest node didn't make it.

 

[Observer]

I'm trying to wrap my head around that price tag lol.

Holy fuck lmao

 

[Observer]

VPD is a tool. A measurement of what is real. No different than PPM or PH or PPFD.

VPD, along with PPFD and available CO2 sets the speed the plant will grow. Together, they are the gas pedal.

6CO2+6H2O→C6H12O6+6O2

That is photosynthesis, no more, no less. There are no nutrients there. Just CO2, Water and light which becomes sugar and oxygen.

That said, 70%+ is excessive, even for seedlings.

Is 70% excessive for say a month old plants?
Or just follow the temp with my Rh/VPD?


Should it be less rh for the plants to use more water in the pot? Or is that not a good thing?

We obviously want to keep the stomata open as long as possible, and turn the PPFD up to drive it, and then a correlation with Rh and ambient/LS-Temps

 

[Observer]

Dude you are posting while in the shower? Outstanding dedication!

Hahaha so I'm not the only one?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Hahaha so I'm not the only one?

Sometimes the best questions come in the shower and you don't wanna forget.

 

[Observer]

Sometimes the best questions come in the shower and you don't wanna forget.

Indeed sir

 

[GrumpAzz]

Is 70% excessive for say a month old plants?
Or just follow the temp with my Rh/VPD

I was a little over a month in when Aqua stepped in and we bumped up my temps to around 80 and dropped my rH to around 55. We also started a day/night cycle then and all that seems to have really pleased my lady. She's grown so much in the last two weeks, comparatively.

 

[Observer]

I was a little over a month in when Aqua stepped in and we bumped up my temps to around 80 and dropped my rH to around 55. We also started a day/night cycle then and all that seems to have really pleased my lady. She's grown so much in the last two weeks, comparatively.

Yeah I'm just still trying to wrap my ahead around

Like I get it, the mechanics, but what should be done?

 

[Observer]

78LST
82AMB
59% RH

Puts me at 0.94kPa

Like should I aim for 0.8kPa /63rh

This is aroyas VPD calc.

 

[Observer]

I have piss poor air exchange too, no outside air exchange besides doors, wish I had a fucking CO2 meter to see how much they are consuming.

Would really help find the "bottlenecks"

I got ~1800-2000 total watts I could throw up, I can't even utilize lol.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Yeah I'm just still trying to wrap my ahead around

Like I get it, the mechanics, but what should be done.

Well this is my first time, but I would say bring the humidity down to 55 or so and OBSERVE

Sorry couldn't help myself. I'm also in hydro so I don't know anything about how to water a plant.

 

[Observer]

Well this is my first time, but I would say bring the humidity down to 55 or so and OBSERVE

Sorry couldn't help myself. I'm also in hydro so I don't know anything about how to water a plant.

Yea but then that conflicts with VPD charts

I was gonna aim for 63ish in the .4-.8 range and observe lol.

And then Ill.drop to 50s I guess
But see these variables will/also interact with the root zone water and oxygen, content.

Ughhhhh it's a straight up chemical equation that has quite a few vars.

Doing this shit without the proper setup is a tedious balancing act.

 

[Observer]

So what gives man lol

Help us Moe and aqua lol

Much appreciated.