HLV or Genetic drift????

[LJFarming]

After growing for a few years I have noticed that after running a strain 6-8 times that it eventually stops producing the quality like it did originally as well as seems to yield a little less each run. I have always called bullshit about genetic drift and always cut my current mom into the clones I need for the following run as well as a couple extra to grow as new moms for the following run. Then I cull the mom.

My question to everyone is do you think genetic drift is real. I am obviously 6-8 cuts away from the original genetic/strain and definitely now think it’s possible. However I also think somewhere along the way and purchasing and trading and receiving new clones that there is a very good chance I picked up HLV along the way and completely ruined all my genetics.

I decided to cull all the genetics I had accept one and ordered a test for it to see if it has HLV. I was lucky enough to receive a seed collection from an old head that grew for over 40 years and honestly think old school genetics are the best way to go. It will be interesting to see what the HLP test results are for the only strain I kept.

So I guess after all my rambling above I would really like to hear opinions about genetic drift. I plan to only keep the original moms to take cuts off from now on as well as make damn sure nothing I grow has the Viroid but perhaps I am just being paranoid!

Peace,

LJ

 

[Moshmen]

No science but I’ve beeen keeping a strain for 5 years nowa same process you describe and still fine by my standards ? And to go even further back my clone came from a 30 year old mother but again no science just opinion - I call bullshit

 

[moe.red]

So many variables...

Genetic drift is inescapable over millennia, but does it happen over 5 years? 10?

What causes genetic drift? Could be environmental including viroid or UV lighting. Think skin cancer. UV disrupts chromosomes. That can happen quick.

Over millennia, copying errors when nucelli split are inevitable. It's not something that is likely to be a factor in a decade long grow however.

From a practical standpoint, cloning from STEM / undifferentiated cells is the best way to minimize environmental impacts. This means taking just the tiny bit at the very top of the main stem. Tissue Culture has been proven to "rejuvenate" in certain circumstances so that is what I am referring to primarily. The same can be done with new growth root tips. But this is mostly lab work and out of reach of hobby growers.

Curious to see what your HLV results are.

 

[CannaGranny]

I have one I have been running clone only for 12 years now. She has never shown any variation from grow one even up through today. Just as potent as grow one.
Im not sure how I feel about what is being put out there, more so since reading an article that says the purple bud is unaffected. The difference? The purples are full of Anthocyanins. Really, from my standpoint makes zero sense.
Im holding back old genetics just in case though.

 

[Rootsruler]

From my attempts at answering this question the information I got was that, theoretically, genetic drift should not happen. What will effect genetics are stressors in the mother plant that change genetics. Stressors like a bug infestation or drought will do that so as long as you keep the mother relatively healthy and in as stress free an environment as possible she shouldn't drift genetically.

HLV is a whole other issue.

 

[moe.red]

From my attempts at answering this question the information I got was that, theoretically, genetic drift should not happen. What will effect genetics are stressors in the mother plant that change genetics. Stressors like a bug infestation or drought will do that so as long as you keep the mother relatively healthy and in as stress free an environment as possible she shouldn't drift genetically.

HLV is a whole other issue.

I can see how bugs or drought would have impacts on the health of the mom, and therefore potentially lower vitality in clones, but how would bugs change DNA?

 

[Moshmen]

From my attempts at answering this question the information I got was that, theoretically, genetic drift should not happen. What will effect genetics are stressors in the mother plant that change genetics. Stressors like a bug infestation or drought will do that so as long as you keep the mother relatively healthy and in as stress free an environment as possible she shouldn't drift genetically.

HLV is a whole other issue.

That moon glow cut is at least 20 generations old - meaning a clone of a clone .

 

[MysticEpipedon]

It's not "genetic drift." Genetic drift has nothing to do with an individual plant, it is the way genetics in a population of plants, animals, people or whatever living thing, can drift over generations. Genes in an individual do not drift.

Clones can get weaker over time, due to all sorts of minor infections that could be viral, and have nothing to do with HLV. There are likely thousands or millions of plant viruses, most of which humans will never identify.

 

[GrowHobo]

I think “epigenetic changes” more aptly applies here

 

[Rootsruler]

That moon glow cut is at least 20 generations old - meaning a clone of a clone .

Whatever it went through it has arrived at a very nice place!!

Rolled up 21 joints and took one of GF's ciggy boxes and filled it with joints. I left it on the nightstand and I could hear her giggling in the bedroom from the office. She came over and started to massage my shoulders........maybe I need to do that more often?

 

[moe.red]

A couple of definitions just in case:

Genetic drift is the change in frequency of an existing gene variant in the population due to random chance. Genetic drift may cause gene variants to disappear completely and thereby reduce genetic variation.

Epigenic Changes:
The answer is epigenetics, a rapidly growing area of science that focuses on the processes that help direct when individual genes are turned on or off. While the cell’s DNA provides the instruction manual, genes also need specific instructions. In essence, epigenetic processes tell the cell to read specific pages of the instruction manual at distinct times.

Some epigenetic changes are stable and last a lifetime, and some may be passed on from one generation to the next, without changing the genes.


Trying to wrap my head around the big picture here.

 

[smoke]

When i first read the post. Scientifically i thought no.

Human nature in me says maybe

 

[Rootsruler]

I can see how bugs or drought would have impacts on the health of the mom, and therefore potentially lower vitality in clones, but how would bugs change DNA?

Apparently the bug infestation induces some sort of defense mechanism that changes something in the DNA. I also wonder how you can physically change DNA but from what I've read these types of stressors will somehow change the actual DNA. Still a bit skeptical so I'm reserving judgement but that's the latest info I have so far.

 

[LJFarming]

I truly appreciate everyone’s replies that definitely confirm my mentor’s thoughts! I am definitely thinking genetic drift is most likely BRO SCIENCE! Which unfortunately makes me think HLVP. I went on vacation and just ordered the tests today but I will definitely update the test results of the 3 strains I kept once I get the results.

Thank you to everyone for your advice!

Peace out,

LJ

 

[Bandit420]

Maybe it's just human tolerance and burn out on a cut. It happens. I've let some dandys go just because I got tired of them with the same effect, flavor , etc but not because of any kind of drift by the plant

 

[Heisen]

I truly appreciate everyone’s replies that definitely confirm my mentor’s thoughts! I am definitely thinking genetic drift is most likely BRO SCIENCE! Which unfortunately makes me think HLVP. I went on vacation and just ordered the tests today but I will definitely update the test results of the 3 strains I kept once I get the results.

Thank you to everyone for your advice!

Peace out,

LJ

Can you post a Pic of the plant in veg please

 

[Rootsruler]

Can you post a Pic of the plant in veg please

Last post was 2023.

 

[Heisen]

Last post was 2023.

Dang

 

[LJFarming]

Can you post a Pic of the plant in veg please