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New Grow - 4 Site RDWC Maiden Voyage

I will bump that up to 50% now then instead of waiting two more days.
 
Moe.Red said:
What's stunting them is lack of photons. If you can work your way up faster without damage, I would. They seem recovered enough to me to go a little faster.

I've seen that chart before, but never internalized it. Let me do that before I comment. Maybe @Anthem275 would like to comment.
Click to expand...
I think Anthem knows his stuff.
I was going to copy and paste it in the chart section without a thought. I mean what do I know, just without thoughts what is left? :p
I'll leave that to you. (y)
 
Moe.Red said:
What's stunting them is lack of photons. If you can work your way up faster without damage, I would. They seem recovered enough to me to go a little faster.

I've seen that chart before, but never internalized it. Let me do that before I comment. Maybe @Anthem275 would like to comment.
Click to expand...
SLG
Can you help me out with somethings
#1 what is the recommended dosage for the Agsil?
#2 what is your total water capacity?
The PPFD is what drives the plant. Not the climate or the nutrients. Once the climate or nutrients get off from tolerable limits the plant begins to show signs of stress. Stress being things like leaves curling down or twisted new grow on fan leaves. With that being said, we can only push the plant so hard. Meaning we can give it too much light too fast.
I went back the last few pages and I believe I have a good idea what the problem is but I need you to tell me the dosage of the Agsil.
The stretch is related to the plant reaching for the light more than likely, because of your earlier set backs. You should be able to punch the light up as Moe mentioned to 50 percent right now. I had a problem and I have a grow going now that I am at 50 percent right now and I should be around 80 percent. Shit happens, our job is to prevent shit from happening. With your new Equipment you have in terms of sports went from playing high school football to play pro ball. I hate to say this but there is a difference.
 
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SweetLeafGrow said:
Getting time to get caught up on this grow journal and get some much needed rest! I am hoping to get caught up on all the styling on each of the forum templates coming up this week, one bite at a time as they say when it comes to eating elephants.

The Grape Gas grow has seemed to smooth out and from what I can tell, on my way to a great harvest in 5 weeks or so. I've ramped the light up to 45% and will bump that up to 50% on Tuesday of this week, going 5% every 3 days. PPFD sitting between 500-600 using the Photone app I bought. So far, I do not see any detrimental effects from bumping the light up.

I've started amending the res a bit differently. I am now PHing the top off water, then adding the GH trio at mid bloom ratios to get to 500 ppm or thereabouts, then adding that to the res. I am not using Agsil from here on out and adjusting up with PH UP if/when needed to avoid getting too much Potassium in the ratios. Keeping the ppms pretty steady, ph is pretty stable, and I think I am dialed in when looking at the chart that Anthem sent me, thanks for your help bro.

View attachment 2461
I am going to, when I have time, make a daily grow log form where I can record these numbers twice a day and keep a better tab on what is happening in the water and what should be done base on this chart and what I am seeing.

Here are some photos of the plants, I was expecting better by now so perhaps this hiccup stunted them, not sure, never grown this strain.
Click to expand...
Similar chart
Screenshot_20230504-174041_Chrome.jpg
 
Anthem275 said:
SLG
Can you help me out with somethings
#1 what is the recommended dosage for the Agsil?
#2 what is your total water capacity?
The PPFD is what drives the plant. Not the climate or the nutrients. Once the climate or nutrients get off from tolerable limits the plant begins to show signs of stress. Stress being things like leaves curling down or twisted new grow on fan leaves. With that being said, we can only push the plant so hard. Meaning we can give it too much light too fast.
I went back the last few pages and I believe I have a good idea what the problem is but I need you to tell me the dosage of the Agsil.
The stretch is related to the plant reaching for the light more than likely, because of your earlier set backs. You should be able to punch the light up as Moe mentioned to 50 percent right now. I had a problem and I have a grow going now that I am at 50 percent right now and I should be around 80 percent. Shit happens, our job is to prevent shit from happening. With your new Equipment you have in terms of sports went from playing high school football to play pro ball. I hate to say this but there is a difference.
Click to expand...
Thanks Anthem. So if I am remembering right, I am dosing at 2 ml per gallon of the AgSil 16 - 7.8%, total volume of water in that system is around 25 gallons, maybe a bit more. I do that when I am building the res and the agsil goes in first, which spikes the pH up to around 9. Here is my procedure when I build the res-

Step 1. Add 2 ml AgSil 16 7.8% silica formula per gallon.
Step 2. pH to 6.1 and let stabilize. Adjust as necessary.
Step 3. Add 5 ml cal/mag per gallon.
Step 4. Add 1 ml enzymes per gallon.
Step 5. Add GH nutrients, brown then green then pink.
Step 6. Ph to final target of 5.8.
Step 7. Add Hydroguard at the rate of 2 ml per gallon.

I know what you are saying about that light. Once I get that figured out maybe I might be able to run with the big boys 🏃‍♂️

I did bump the light up to 50% and its reading 600=700 PPFD at the highest part of the canopy.
 
Moe.Red said:
Don't you have an auto top off too? RO water? If so this does not quite work for us.

I want to see the EC falling and the PH stable for normal operations.
Click to expand...
No it works for me because my external res that dumps into my epicenter is graduated. If you notice in my notes i always keep track of daily water usage especially near the end.
 
smoke said:
Slo again, ive only ever used the chart that Anthem uses and just always thought this was similar???

Percy grow room.com ??.
Click to expand...
I'm being really unclear today.

If you top off your epicenter with RO water via a float valve like I do, neither chart is correct for you. That is my situation. I thought yours too?

If you are not using a float valve and the water level is always going down until you manually add, this chart will work for you as long as you add nutes every time you add water.
 
Moe.Red said:
I'm being really unclear today.

If you top off your epicenter with RO water via a float valve like I do, neither chart is correct for you. That is my situation. I thought yours too?

If you are not using a float valve and the water level is always going down until you manually add, this chart will work for you as long as you add nutes every time you add water.
Click to expand...
Yes my res feeds my system via float valve same as yours.

Can i get back to you?
 
SweetLeafGrow said:
Thanks Anthem. So if I am remembering right, I am dosing at 2 ml per gallon of the AgSil 16 - 7.8%, total volume of water in that system is around 25 gallons, maybe a bit more. I do that when I am building the res and the agsil goes in first, which spikes the pH up to around 9. Here is my procedure when I build the res-

Step 1. Add 2 ml AgSil 16 7.8% silica formula per gallon.
Step 2. pH to 6.1 and let stabilize. Adjust as necessary.
Step 3. Add 5 ml cal/mag per gallon.
Step 4. Add 1 ml enzymes per gallon.
Step 5. Add GH nutrients, brown then green then pink.
Step 6. Ph to final target of 5.8.
Step 7. Add Hydroguard at the rate of 2 ml per gallon.

I know what you are saying about that light. Once I get that figured out maybe I might be able to run with the big boys 🏃‍♂️

I did bump the light up to 50% and its reading 600=700 PPFD at the highest part of the canopy.
Click to expand...
SLG,
I believe you have some things going on.
#1. Adding the Agsil to adjust the PH is one thing, I believe it added too much silica to the mix and possibly K
#2. GH Trio has buffer in it as well. I know this because I use it for moms and if I just do the veg recipe it will always come up with a PH of 6.5 where as it is 7.3 out of the filtered tap. (not RO). But like last night I used some Monosilic Acid and it kicked it down to 5.8. Just and FYI
#3. I do not really like the water volume and doing top offs. I believe you need to do at least half water changes every week. Let's look at it this way. If you add 1.5 gallons of RO water ever day you are changing the nutrient values by 6 percent of the total water volume. In one of the top offs last week you added 80 mils of pink? That is what enough for 16 gallons of water and it is P&K, still need some N at this time. You do not really have the water volume to do the top offs and add this or that kind of thing IMO

I would suggest doing something like this. Remove about 15 gallons and add nutrients in the correct amounts to get to 530 to 550 PPMs in 15 gallons. Drop it in the rez and start recording PPM and PH at the same time each day. As I mentioned you want the PPMs to stay the same as the water volume decreases. If it rises the first few days that is OK because you are running slightly high PPMs. But in a day or two you should see water volume and PPM stay the same with RO water top offs only. By the end of the week the PPMs should be dropping faster than the water is getting used up. So Friday's is say 450 PPM and Saturdays is 425. Then it is time to reset the rez again.
 
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smoke said:
Yes my res feeds my system via float valve same as yours.

Can i get back to you?
Click to expand...
Yeah bud I just mean that for us a dropping EC and stable PH are the desired state. The chart shows EC should be stable. But it should fall if they are eating because we are diluting the concentration with our auto top off.

Tell mama smoke happy day from me.
 
SweetLeafGrow said:
We will do that when time allows. I think for now it's best to stick with their default flower spectrum for simplicity. The only question I would have is about overall intensity on the light and where I should be with that? At 30% now and just don't want a repeat of what happened a couple of weeks ago. Hanging distance is about 8-10" from the tallest flowers and I do have a few inches, maybe 4, I could gain in headroom if needed.

Is this a light that will likely not see 100%? This is where my tool bag is lacking also as I do not have any meters to check par and lux. May have to buy an app for my phone if that is a good option.
Click to expand...
I like this one. Repeated results match. Only had it few months but for less than $50 CND I like it.


Learned of it here: 🤷‍♂️
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Measuring Equipment - Coco For Cannabis - Equipment & Product Guide

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Anthem275 said:
SLG,
I believe you have some things going on.
#1. Adding the Agsil to adjust the PH is one thing, I believe it added too much silica to the mix and possibly K
#2. GH Trio has buffer in it as well. I know this because I use it for moms and if I just do the veg recipe it will always come up with a PH of 6.5 where as it is 7.3 out of the filtered tap. (not RO). But like last night I used some Monosilic Acid and it kicked it down to 5.8. Just and FYI
#3. I do not really like the water volume and doing top offs. I believe you need to do at least half water changes every week. Let's look at it this way. If you add 1.5 gallons of RO water ever day you are changing the nutrient values by 6 percent of the total water volume. In one of the top offs last week you added 80 mils of pink? That is what enough for 16 gallons of water and it is P&K, still need some N at this time. You do not really have the water volume to do the top offs and add this or that kind of thing IMO

I would suggest doing something like this. Remove about 15 gallons and add nutrients in the correct amounts to get to 530 to 550 PPMs in 15 gallons. Drop it in the rez and start recording PPM and PH at the same time each day. As I mentioned you want the PPMs to stay the same as the water volume decreases. If it rises the first few days that is OK because you are running slightly high PPMs. But in a day or two you should see water volume and PPM stay the same with RO water top offs only. By the end of the week the PPMs should be dropping faster than the water is getting used up. So Friday's is say 450 PPM and Saturdays is 425. Then it is time to reset the rez again.
Click to expand...
Thanks again Anthem. No, I have not ran this system before, this is a big first for me in several ways and it's been a bit overwhelming.

Since discovering this extra P from the silica I have backed off on using that and using the PH Up instead after I have built the res with the agsil. Not sure if that is right or wrong but from what I have learned so far, the silica would be good to use to build the buffer but not as a pH adjuster during flowering, especially late in flower.

Are you using monosilic acid for pH down? What product is that? I have been using GH PH Down which uses phosphoric acid. I have noticed that adding the nutes brings the pH down but did not attribute that to any added buffer in the nutes, just figured that was what adding the nutes does, I'm starting to see things a bit more clearly. I need to look more at the fine print!

To your point #3. I hear you and I have changed this up a bit. I have started adding nutes to my target ppm of 500 to my top off water and adding it that way. I had been doing amendments when I saw the ppms drop very much like what Moe is doing but am realizing he has a slightly different system in that he has an auto top off so that is why he amends the way he does. I need to add nutes when I top off, which is what I have been doing the past couple of days. PPM and PH have been very steady with the water dropping and that lines right up with the chart you showed me. So I think I am getting the hang of this.

Last week when I added the pink it was an amendment away from the reset we did when I changed out the res and set the ratios to 1:1:1 per Moe's recommendation. You had recommended the res change, which I did but I needed to get the PK up so Moe had advised the reset ratios on that conservative side to baby the plants a bit I assume. Whatever it was, it seemed to work and get the plants back on track. If I remember right, I also gave them so brown at that time which has some N in it too. Since then, the top offs have included all three of the GH trio at mid flower ratios.

I am thinking hard on your suggestion about doing partial res changes. I would really like to be able to go the distance with no res changes but if that is not possible, I will do what needs to be done. I'm very confused about the "buffer" and why it would take a week to get that at full capacity and then flush it and start over? Not sure if I am trying to combine two different growing styles and that is why it doesn't make sense to me or what. I do like to understand WHY we would do things a certain way and I am just way confused on all this.

Thanks for taking the time to help Anthem, I really appreciate it bud!
 
I'm very confused about the "buffer" and why it would take a week to get that at full capacity and then flush it and start over?
Can you explain your idea on this? I am not understanding what you mean.
 
I guess the way Moe has been teaching me is there is a thing called the buffer that once established, keeps the pH locked in where we want it. The way I understand it, the AgSil is part of building that buffer. Honestly, I don't really understand it but trying to learn as I go. I would love to find some good reading to help with the gaps in my understanding.
 
SweetLeafGrow said:
I guess the way Moe has been teaching me is there is a thing called the buffer that once established, keeps the pH locked in where we want it. The way I understand it, the AgSil is part of building that buffer. Honestly, I don't really understand it but trying to learn as I go. I would love to find some good reading to help with the gaps in my understanding.
Click to expand...
Go to the search tab and typing in Buffering. I started a thread on it and the thread explains exactly what you are looking to understand. I hate to say it but it is not a constant and that is part of what you are not understanding.
 
Thanks Anthem, I did read that thread and still not getting it but I'm getting closer.

So based on that chart, water levels are falling, ppms are steady 522, EC 1.06 but pH has been dropping and the chart says do a res change and keep the EC about the same, so I am going to go ahead and do that, then build the res back up with a fresh set of calmag and the GH trio, mid bloom ratios and aiming for that 500 ppm mark. I am going to build the buffer the same way I have in the past with the agsil 16 but will adjust the pH with GH PH up during that time if needed instead of agsil16.
 
SweetLeafGrow said:
Thanks Anthem, I did read that thread and still not getting it but I'm getting closer.

So based on that chart, water levels are falling, ppms are steady 522, EC 1.06 but pH has been dropping and the chart says do a res change and keep the EC about the same, so I am going to go ahead and do that, then build the res back up with a fresh set of calmag and the GH trio, mid bloom ratios and aiming for that 500 ppm mark. I am going to build the buffer the same way I have in the past with the agsil 16 but will adjust the pH with GH PH up during that time if needed instead of agsil16.
Click to expand...
How many ppms of calmag are you adding to make up your 500 ppm target?
 
I think the thing that is missing is that the buffer is temporary. It is consumed as you grow.

It is 100% possible to do a run from start to finish with no res changes. I'm living proof. My current and previous grows I did not dump the res. And I have to say it is REALLY easy for me to dump, just flip a couple of switches. If I thought there was no potential for benefit, I would dump the res many times per grow, and have historically done just that.

It does require correct analysis of the plant condition. Adding nutes is not by a chart.

The easiest and most reliable way is to swap out the res weekly. Why I am not doing that now is that I am attempting to understand why the plant uses 17% of it's energy derived from photosynthesis to push exudates out the roots. Dumping the res flushes all the work the plant was doing. My hypothesis is that these exudates add complexity to the finished product.
 
smoke said:
How many ppms of calmag are you adding to make up your 500 ppm target?
Click to expand...
I think around 200 smoke, I just saw this so just going off memory. After I added 100 ml calmag the ppms were almost 300 but my starting water is about 50 ppm and there was a bit of res water still in the chiller ect. I went with 4 ml per gallon based on an estimated 25 gallons in the system.

Moe.Red said:
It does require correct analysis of the plant condition. Adding nutes is not by a chart.
Click to expand...
I think this is where my skills are not up to par yet to be able to do it the way you do Moe. I can't read the plants like you can yet but I will get there. For now, I think it might be best to do more frequent res changes like Anthem has been recommending until I gain those skills. Instead of a partial change out, I did the whole res so I know what is in there.

I have the light bumped up to 60% today.
 

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SweetLeafGrow said:
Thanks Anthem, I did read that thread and still not getting it but I'm getting closer.

So based on that chart, water levels are falling, ppms are steady 522, EC 1.06 but pH has been dropping and the chart says do a res change and keep the EC about the same, so I am going to go ahead and do that, then build the res back up with a fresh set of calmag and the GH trio, mid bloom ratios and aiming for that 500 ppm mark. I am going to build the buffer the same way I have in the past with the agsil 16 but will adjust the pH with GH PH up during that time if needed instead of agsil16.
Click to expand...
You probably do not want to add anymore silica to the rez. After about 3 weeks it starts to make the buds become harder.
 
Anthem275 said:
It is 100% possible to do a run from start to finish with no res changes. I'm living proof. My current and previous grows I did not dump the res.
What is your plant count and total water capacity?
Click to expand...
On this particular tent at this time, 2 plants in 50 gallons.

I've been to the other end of the spectrum too.

I agree no silica late in flower. I pretty much quit that when the stretch is done.
 
Moe.Red said:
On this particular tent at this time, 2 plants in 50 gallons.

I've been to the other end of the spectrum too.

I agree no silica late in flower. I pretty much quit that when the stretch is done.
Click to expand...
So you are working with 25 gallons per plant. SLG is working with 6.25 gallons per plant. That is part of the challenge and difference.
I change water every week as I have mentioned but I am only working with 2.5 gallons per plant.
 
Just previous to this I was doing 6 plants same res, so 8.3 g/plant.

In the other tent 5 gals per plant.

I know water volume is a factor, more is easier. Been telling that to N2 from day 1. He is at 5 gals per plant. So that is not the only factor I would say.

But I concur, res changes make life easier for plant health. It's just crazy the amount of variables we are dealing with. What works for me may not work for you.
 
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