steamrollers COM Stonington grow

[steamroller]

I have seen the charts and may even understand them?
But isn't the higher CO2 at lower par just wasting it?
Last check with photone had me at 300 par on average at tops pf plants.
That is 60% lighting.

 

[Anthem275]

Shouldn't my lights be running higher before I turn the CO2 up more?

I think you would be fine with like 1000 PPM at this point. Either way you are getting a huge increase from 450 PPM. This can be a limiting factor, liebig's barrel. It is all about eliminating limiting factors. Once those plants start to take off you will notice a large increase in growth and it will help bud development. I would suggest using silica because the additional weight of the buds will be better supported by the plant using silica. Drop it week 4 or 5 of flower. I ran a test a few weeks ago because @tobh said he saw no difference with silica so I ran it to week 8 of flower and the plant branches became too brittle and busted at numerous sites so I now know for a fact silica has properties I am interested in using.

 

[smoke]

liebig's barrel

 

[Observer]

I can find all the charts I want, heck one even has Calcium highest demand at like week 6 or so of Flower and I know for a fact that is incorrect so believe what you want to believe. I live in the real world.

that was ignorant man, and i do not see why ur coming off this way towards ME.

by all means, please show us the right charts we should be looking at, i just grabbed the first 2 screen grabs off of google to try and be helpful to @steamroller

Peace

 

[smoke]

heck one even has Calcium highest demand at like week 6 or so of Flower and I know for a fact that is incorrect

 

[Anthem275]

I have seen the charts and may even understand them?
But isn't the higher CO2 at lower par just wasting it?
Last check with photone had me at 300 par on average at tops pf plants.
That is 60% lighting.

If the room is sealed how is it being wasted?

 

[steamroller]

Turned CO2 up to 1,000 this morning before I left.
All plants besides the fickle Rum Runner look outstanding~!

View attachment 34828

That chart kind of blows my mind.
I have been adding P, Ca, Mg and K since my first feeding.. They are part of 3,2,1.
I can't imagine making it through veg on just N, but last grow I never fed at all in veg so??

 

[Anthem275]

Turned CO2 up to 1,000 this morning before I left.
All plants besides the fickle Rum Runner look outstanding~!

That chart kind of blows my mind.
I have been adding P, Ca, Mg and K since my first feeding.. They are part of 3,2,1.
I can't imagine making it through veg on just N, but last grow I never fed at all in veg so??

I believe that chart came from another plant @Aqua Man knows where it came from as I remember. It is not correct for cannabis in my experience and opinion.

 

[smoke]

Turned CO2 up to 1,000 this morning before I left.
All plants besides the fickle Rum Runner look outstanding~!

That chart kind of blows my mind.
I have been adding P, Ca, Mg and K since my first feeding.. They are part of 3,2,1.
I can't imagine making it through veg on just N, but last grow I never fed at all in veg so??

That particular chart is late with everything in my experience, in particular is calcium needs. These for reference are closer imo

 

[Max]

That last one looks more realistic when Ca/mg is needed.. @SSHZ

 

[Observer]

That particular chart is late with everything in my experience, in particular is calcium needs. These for reference are closer imo

View attachment 34969

These make sense.

 

[steamroller]

Ok quick check in with a couple pics.

^^Last weekend before up pot^^ Whacko Rum Runner is in back right corner starting to lean and still green?
Up potted all to 3g plastic pots today.
Considered cloth pots but still leery. And lazy they are 5g~!

The whacko Rum Runner takes the cake~!

^^ This is her before up pot~! She bent herself into this configuration~!^^ Stem felt a little soft but roots looked good and she propped up with support fine.
I did not keep her to the side of a light for more then 1 or two days. That just seemed stupid to me but this is whacko~!
She has not been treated differently than any of the others. I have tried moving here to every corner of the room but nothing improves her.
I know the pros would cull her, but this is a learning opportunity that I don't have to work too hard on. If she does better great if not yea well 16 others will work fine for me.
Here is the 2 week later Rum Runner;

^^ 2 week younger Rum Runner^^

^^ whacko Rum Runner after up pot and propped up^^
Kind of thinking lock out seems just a huge difference in phenos?? And the plant looks fucked~!

^^ here is 1 XXX^^

^^ and here is the other XXX^^ Compare heights with the waterlines on wall.
I get different phenos but the two RR have something different going on IMO.
And here is what I am focusing on

^^2 of the Zamal Dreams^^
With the largest looking like she will be even with the big 12 that are 2 weeks older than her in short time~!
Big 12 are 43 days above soil and the ZD and second RR are 32 days above soil today.

^^ Rooms a mess^^
I'll get to cleaning it up tomorrow.
Co2 is holding well at 1,000, temp is climbing to 86f since I bumped light up to 75%. The lights are 37 inches from floor.
RH is around 60 and the sealed cooling loop is actually being used now when the room gets to 87f. It works pretty quickly.
I will move plants around tomorrow also and group them by height so lighting can be more even.
Want to wait as long as I can before flip and maybe even get the bar lights out to replace 4 of the boards before flip?
Thinking they deserve another2-3 weeks before flip at least.
It is hard to be patient even when you have enough herb, but I really think many rush, possibly due to stretch?
I am not fearing stretch at all and think last time it was minimal and never turned out to be an issue.

So how long does everyone veg and like Zen asked when is day 1 of veg?
Should I not count the first 2-3 weeks the plant was considered a seedling.
If that is the case then the 12 are only 22 days in veg and the 4 are 11 days in veg.
That makes 4 more weeks of veg not even seem long?

 

[Stoneyluv]

your plants look great man, you make it look soooo easy!

i've always counted day one once the two cotyledon leaves open up. and i count day one flower when i change the light schedule. all the other ways seem require judgement and opinion to me.

hey what is that thing your big fan is sitting on? is that a humidifier?

 

[Anthem275]

your plants look great man, you make it look soooo easy!

i've always counted day one once the two cotyledon leaves open up. and i count day one flower when i change the light schedule. all the other ways seem require judgement and opinion to me.

hey what is that thing your big fan is sitting on? is that a humidifier?

I 100 percent AGREE on the plant timing. Anything else is just a way of manipulating the facts to suite the growers needs of results!!!

 

[steamroller]

your plants look great man, you make it look soooo easy!

i've always counted day one once the two cotyledon leaves open up. and i count day one flower when i change the light schedule. all the other ways seem require judgement and opinion to me.

hey what is that thing your big fan is sitting on? is that a humidifier?

Thanks man~!
The box fan is hanging above the humidifier, and in front of the heater/AC.
The hurricane is above 2 smaller fans mounted to a 2x4. The yellow one is a floor fan.
Yea 4 fans not counting the infinities.

 

[Bandit420]

Ok quick check in with a couple pics.
View attachment 35641
^^Last weekend before up pot^^ Whacko Rum Runner is in back right corner starting to lean and still green?
Up potted all to 3g plastic pots today.
Considered cloth pots but still leery. And lazy they are 5g~!

The whacko Rum Runner takes the cake~!
View attachment 35636
^^ This is her before up pot~! She bent herself into this configuration~!^^ Stem felt a little soft but roots looked good and she propped up with support fine.
I did not keep her to the side of a light for more then 1 or two days. That just seemed stupid to me but this is whacko~!
She has not been treated differently than any of the others. I have tried moving here to every corner of the room but nothing improves her.
I know the pros would cull her, but this is a learning opportunity that I don't have to work too hard on. If she does better great if not yea well 16 others will work fine for me.
Here is the 2 week later Rum Runner;
View attachment 35640
^^ 2 week younger Rum Runner^^
View attachment 35642
^^ whacko Rum Runner after up pot and propped up^^
Kind of thinking lock out seems just a huge difference in phenos?? And the plant looks fucked~!
View attachment 35643
^^ here is 1 XXX^^
View attachment 35644
^^ and here is the other XXX^^ Compare heights with the waterlines on wall.
I get different phenos but the two RR have something different going on IMO.
And here is what I am focusing on
View attachment 35647
^^2 of the Zamal Dreams^^
With the largest looking like she will be even with the big 12 that are 2 weeks older than her in short time~!
Big 12 are 43 days above soil and the ZD and second RR are 32 days above soil today.
View attachment 35648
^^ Rooms a mess^^
I'll get to cleaning it up tomorrow.
Co2 is holding well at 1,000, temp is climbing to 86f since I bumped light up to 75%. The lights are 37 inches from floor.
RH is around 60 and the sealed cooling loop is actually being used now when the room gets to 87f. It works pretty quickly.
I will move plants around tomorrow also and group them by height so lighting can be more even.
Want to wait as long as I can before flip and maybe even get the bar lights out to replace 4 of the boards before flip?
Thinking they deserve another2-3 weeks before flip at least.
It is hard to be patient even when you have enough herb, but I really think many rush, possibly due to stretch?
I am not fearing stretch at all and think last time it was minimal and never turned out to be an issue.

So how long does everyone veg and like Zen asked when is day 1 of veg?
Should I not count the first 2-3 weeks the plant was considered a seedling.
If that is the case then the 12 are only 22 days in veg and the 4 are 11 days in veg.
That makes 4 more weeks of veg not even seem long?

There's no absolute law or rule to it and it's 100% preference so I'm the weirdo who believes there's five stages of life.
Seedling, vegging, preflower, flower, ripening.

Seedling stage ends when the first 5 point leaves show then it's veg. You can also tell by the stem turning from fragile and soft to firm and woody.

Veg goes until preflowers show. I consider preflower stage the 10-14 days between veg and pistils beginning to show. When pistils show, then it's in flower.
I go by this because my roots are in outdoor growing and there is no timer or specific date outdoors unless you veg indoors then put them out in a known 12 hours or less daylight. But say you put plants out in July. You don't know exactly when they've started to flower until you see those pistils show.

And ripening is the beginning of the end with fade and purps showing.

Funny thing here is I built out my room to handle any stretch and be able to grow anything. Then after a few grows I up and decide to try not vegging plants for my next crop.
I was also a chronic wait too late to flip grower so I'm super curious about totally disregarding veg time and flowering as soon as they break the seedling stage and rely on that preflower stage as a sort of veg stage instead. I think it will be similar to growing autos but more efficient and with better genetics. I also have a feeling I'll be able to set personal yield records doing this. 6-7 tree size plants will give me lb every grow so I'm curious what 24 small plants can do in comparison

:
:
It's a cold and nipply morning here in Tejas so I had to turn on my gas fireplace to warm my home. Wifey loves waking up to a cozy home so I'm scoring points there too.
But it got me thinking of you so I decided to shoot a video of what happens in my grow room when I turn on that fireplace...

View attachment IMG_0527.MOV


It will plateau at around 2200ppm. Base line ambient is 450-620.
The insane thing is the fireplace is down the hall over 20' feet away and the grow room door is closed. CO2 is very much a creeping gas.
This is why the colder it gets, the better my grow. My fireplace is pretty much one of those large natural gas burning CO2 generators.
Right now the only thing sucking it up is the strawberry tower and it has the biggest leaves I've ever seen on berry plants getting gassed like this. Hopefully I'm dropping beans on NYE so some ganja can eat it up too

 

[steamroller]

Pre flower~!
I am one who likes to see the plant 'mature' before flipping.
To me that means showing pistils in most cases. Maybe even changing branching from pairs to alternating.
Several of my plants have done this after the topping.
Think if you were growing regulars and you were trying to find males. Some of both m/f do show before actual flip.
They just need to mature.
Different strategies can also be used.
Like changing lights on by 1 hour at a time instead of complete flip at once.
I will be changing lights by 1 hour and will start today.
I do actually already see some pistils and alternating branching on some plants.

Man you are one of the ones that just blow me away with CO2 ppm~!
The room went to 185 after I sealed it.
I already have a replacement tank filled and waiting for when the first one expires.
They say only a 20% gain from this which seems kind of low, but if CO2 is the limiting factor IMO it could be more than 20%.
For me the CO2 if not wasted is the laziest way to get more and do more for the plant. I am all about that~!

 

[smoke]

I already have a replacement tank filled and waiting for when the first one expires

How many days do you figure you'll get out of the first tank?

Never seen a reason to seal my room for the 20% increase in yield

 

[steamroller]

How many days do you figure you'll get out of the first tank?

Never seen a reason to seal my room for the 20% increase in yield

I don't really know?
I should have weighed the tank with regulator attached when new and then I could have kept track.
The gauge has not moved yet at 10 days. Running 1,000 ppm when lights on.
The room is basically sealed all the time beside if I leave vents exposed to shop air.
With them looped together the room is basically sealed very well besides the door.

You get monster yields but the lighting you use would benefit from CO2 IMO.

 

[Bandit420]

Pre flower~!
I am one who likes to see the plant 'mature' before flipping.
To me that means showing pistils in most cases. Maybe even changing branching from pairs to alternating.
Several of my plants have done this after the topping.
Think if you were growing regulars and you were trying to find males. Some of both m/f do show before actual flip.
They just need to mature.
Different strategies can also be used.
Like changing lights on by 1 hour at a time instead of complete flip at once.
I will be changing lights by 1 hour and will start today.
I do actually already see some pistils and alternating branching on some plants.

Man you are one of the ones that just blow me away with CO2 ppm~!
The room went to 185 after I sealed it.
I already have a replacement tank filled and waiting for when the first one expires.
They say only a 20% gain from this which seems kind of low, but if CO2 is the limiting factor IMO it could be more than 20%.
For me the CO2 if not wasted is the laziest way to get more and do more for the plant. I am all about that~!

I'm one who has never seen pistils or balls during veg no matter how long I veg for. Even extended my last veg by over 3 weeks with a month of alternating branching in both hydro and soil and still didn't see any. IDK if it's genetics, longitude/latitude or what but I've never seen it. I wish I did because it would make things easier.

I used to believe all of what you posted to be fact as well until I tried it a different way. One of those flashes of performance that happens in an experiment or test and starts to change my mind. Kinda like the switch from HID to LED when LED flashed performance I didn't expect so I never looked back and went all in on LED.

I'm on the fence about alternating branching being a sign to flip. I'm not so sure anymore which is why I'm throwing 8 strains at the project to see if it applies to only indi or satty or both or neither. I guess you could say I'm messing with teen pregnancy in my plants and not waiting for them to mature into adults.
I just have to see what's up with it now that the coffers are so full and the timing is right all around to do a type of grow I've only flirted with and not gone all in on.

I do have a little trick when it comes to growing regs and culling males super fast from the herd. People have done it but for the wrong reasons and that's well over 12 hours of dark to start the flip. I've done up to 30 hours but didn't like the shock so I think something in the 20-25 range is ideal. IDK if it works for everybody but that extended dark at flip gets males to show within a day or two. Females still take 10-14 days for me but males are very fast to show. So when people talk about that long darkness they're off when it comes to females and anything beneficial there but it's my go-to tool for finding males early.

But yeah man this grow after the experiment will tell me so much. I just have a feeling I've been mistaken in how I've been running my room for all these years and finally want to get to the bottom of this idea that's been bouncing around my head for about 5 years but I never did it until now. The gains that could be had are eye opening. Everything from faster path to harvest to a very noticeable drop in electricity and water costs but a huge increase in how many seeds I start. Good thing there's those reverse auctions because I'll be blowing thru some packs soon

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

You get monster yields but the lighting you use would benefit from CO2 IMO.

Man, between you and Moe, I am seriously thinking about doing this.

I can get these tanks from the bar at their cost. Then, of course, I am sure there is other equipment like monitors etc. Gonna look into this a bit further.

 

[steamroller]

So looks like CO2 tank will be empty today or tomorrow. I believe I mentioned Saturday or Sunday just for inconvenience..
Will swap it with replacement that is waiting and ready when done.

^^ She started at 1,000 so gauge has dropped 50%^^
Seems some of the first 12 are showing MG deficiency.
Kind of surprised since 321 has me adding epsom every time but not a lot.

So I boosted MG yesterday for the ones showing.
321 has me adding 1.1 grams of mg/epsom per gallon per feeding.
Most say when adding mg to add 1 teaspoon up to 1 tablespoon per gallon. That is a pretty large difference now that I can weigh easily.
Just hoping my diagnosis is right?
Rest of plants look good with largest Zamal Dreams even with the big 12 today~!

^^ largest Zamal Dreams^^ 5 weeks above soil today

^^ Zamal Dreams^^ 5 weeks above soil today

^^ second / late Rum Runner ^^ 5 weeks above soil today.

^^Re arranged plants by height.^^

Room seems to be running well. CO2 at 1,000ppm when lights on.
When I re arranged plants I figured I would adjust lights using the photone app.
Set the lights to offer 500-600umol at plant tops.
Found that 3 of my lights are not the same as the other 3~!
They are all the same model light, but I may have purchased them in different years a couple months apart?
What made me notice this was 3 fixtures had a reduction in par in the middle~! I look at the light and notice there are less diodes in the middle.
Then I notice that the reds are different on 3 of them and then I see it all.
I got 3 lights that are not the same as the other 3~!
OCD has kicked in~!
Now I feel obligated to break out the 8,000s and keep only the three fixtures that are more evenly performing in the middle.
They will make the room warmer I am pretty sure which may be an issue until it cools down a little more here. The cooling loop only does so much with it being in the 40's. Returning air is about 74f when running now.
Moved light cycle to 17/7 yesterday [here we go again with maff ].
First 12 are 3 days short of 7 weeks and the back ups are 5 weeks old.

Seeing a bit of sunshine here today, first in over a week.
Hope everyone has a great weekend~!

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

That CO2 is more expensive that I thought around here. Through the bar, I can get a tank for $100 with a $100 deposit on the tank.

 

[steamroller]

That CO2 is more expensive that I thought around here. Through the bar, I can get a tank for $100 with a $100 deposit on the tank.

I would think that is a 50lb tank[ 4 foot high].
They say there is a CO2 shortage actually.
Regulator and inkbird will cost you$200 combined.
CO2 will last most of you longer in tents I would guess.
Anthem was solid on his prediction of how long tank would last going just on number of plants.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I would think that is a 50lb tank[ 4 foot high].

No, these are shorties, I thought that was expensive!

 

[steamroller]

No, these are shorties, I thought that was expensive!

Not worth it IMO~!
I will run till last 2 weeks of flower and hope my total cost is about 1 months electricity for the room.
To me that is the limit of reasonable. If it adds up to be much more I won't do it again unless I have to.

 

[Stoneyluv]

damn i was hoping your co2 would last longer than that!!!!

you reduced the lighting slowly like that last round too right? i've been thinking about it ever since and been wondering if maybe that also had a hand in your virtually no stretch... what do you think?

what schedule will you proceed with, an hour extra every week?
i'm really thinking of maybe doing this too.

are you still keeping the temps the same lights on and off like last time?

 

[steamroller]

I will probably go a little faster than 1 hour a week. It would be 5 more weeks till 12/12 which is longer than I want.
Maybe I do 1hour 20 minutes a week and I get to 12/12 faster. That would be 4 more weeks. I'd be at 13 hours on in 3 weeks.
I never thought about that and the stretch. It may play a role also?
I would kind of like a little stretch this time. They are all pretty squat still IMO although beast~!
I was thinking like Bandit said that I have no real flip date.
My growing roots are also outdoors from the 80s and I didn't grow indoors ever or again after the 80s till just a couple years ago.
I got in trouble~!
I grew outdoors when it was bag seed or nothing and grew some Sativa's that were 12 feet tall~!
To see 1 or 2 plants like that sticking up from a patch of 50 or so was impressive. You took what you got.

The temps I have tried to control but I think in the very beginning before I sealed the vents [before I connected them now] that it may have got colder than would be consistent with daytime temps. I think it dropped to upper 60s a couple times before I noticed.
Since plugging/connecting the vents, the temp is within 10f day/night and has not gone below 79f lights out.
Close to 2 weeks on the tank. I can work on sealing up maybe a little better, but I will see what it totals in the end.
I dumped 2 tanks when I first got the equipment in under a week~!
I want to see the bonus from it is all.

 

[GoodShit97]

I will probably go a little faster than 1 hour a week. It would be 5 more weeks till 12/12 which is longer than I want.

I tried this for my current grow. Made it 2 weeks before i said eff this amd went right to 12/12. I have little to no patience sometimes lmfao.

 

[steamroller]

I tried this for my current grow. Made it 2 weeks before i said eff this amd went right to 12/12. I have little to no patience sometimes lmfao.

I think I had a version of that last time.
I know from outdoors that somewhere between 14 and 13 magic can start.
I am at 17now. minus 1:20 gets me 15:40 minus 1:20 gets me 14:20 minus 1:20 gets me 13:00
3 weeks or around 1/18 I will be at 13 and magic should be starting?