Impromptu Apples and Bananas RDWC - Bud Builders

[SweetLeafGrow]

Greetings Fellow Bud Builders!

Starting a new journal for a new grow that actually started a few weeks ago. My original plan was to take 4 clones off an Apples and Bananas snip I got and put into a new hydro system I built with idea of having a mother/veg tent. It's a great idea, but not practical in my situation so I have changed plans midstream here. This plant was going to get culled and I was going to re-set up my single site system and run the Panama Red in this tent. However, my last harvest was disappointing at best and I am looking at a major shortage in my med production so I have decided to keep this plant going in the same system and flower her out. That will shave a month + off my expected next harvest and I may be able to avoid any shortages. Thank you Moe for the advice!

So a bit of background, I was running about 500 ppms on this gal at first but she was majorly stressed and the only thing I could figure was I was feeding too much. I diluted down to about 375 ppm and she took off. Stopped throwing single and 3 leaflet fans and shaped right up! Learned a lot right there.

My hole saw was a tad bit too big for these net pots and she tipped over. I had a real bad attitude at the time and just left her....abused the shit outa her. I did pull four snips off and have them rooting in my aero cloner atm. So got in today after making the decision to flower her out, fixed the leaning tower of Pisa, gave her a good haircut, and pulled in my metal trellis and tucked and weaved a bunch of branches that did not get cut off....pretty intense session, the most I have ever manhandled any plant ever. The plan is to flip on Wednesday to give her a chance to recover from what she took today.

My biggest question now is should I go ahead and change out the res to bloom ratios now or wait until I actually flip?

Here is a before and after.....

 

[Rootsruler]

That's a thick stem!!

 

[TomH]

Greetings Fellow Bud Builders!

Starting a new journal for a new grow that actually started a few weeks ago. My original plan was to take 4 clones off an Apples and Bananas snip I got and put into a new hydro system I built with idea of having a mother/veg tent. It's a great idea, but not practical in my situation so I have changed plans midstream here. This plant was going to get culled and I was going to re-set up my single site system and run the Panama Red in this tent. However, my last harvest was disappointing at best and I am looking at a major shortage in my med production so I have decided to keep this plant going in the same system and flower her out. That will shave a month + off my expected next harvest and I may be able to avoid any shortages. Thank you Moe for the advice!

So a bit of background, I was running about 500 ppms on this gal at first but she was majorly stressed and the only thing I could figure was I was feeding too much. I diluted down to about 375 ppm and she took off. Stopped throwing single and 3 leaflet fans and shaped right up! Learned a lot right there.

My hole saw was a tad bit too big for these net pots and she tipped over. I had a real bad attitude at the time and just left her....abused the shit outa her. I did pull four snips off and have them rooting in my aero cloner atm. So got in today after making the decision to flower her out, fixed the leaning tower of Pisa, gave her a good haircut, and pulled in my metal trellis and tucked and weaved a bunch of branches that did not get cut off....pretty intense session, the most I have ever manhandled any plant ever. The plan is to flip on Wednesday to give her a chance to recover from what she took today.

My biggest question now is should I go ahead and change out the res to bloom ratios now or wait until I actually flip?

Here is a before and after.....View attachment 8498View attachment 8499View attachment 8501

That stem is like a beautiful piece of art or maybe a Bonsai, I'm guessing you'll love it.
I just finished some A&Bs and it's pretty stoney, if I mix it with anything the least bit relaxing, I'll fall asleep within 30 minutes; without fail.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

That stem is like a beautiful piece of art or maybe a Bonsai, I'm guessing you'll love it.

Yea, it's a trip how that stem grew.

Yea, I have grown Apples and Bananas and it's some of the best I've ever had. Looking forward to this grow!

 

[smoke]

Looks like brace roots on a corn plant

 

[Buzzking]

Pulling up a chair for this one!

 

[steamroller]

In~!

 

[Max]

I’d run the veg nutes for a couple weeks into flower..they still require a good amount of N early on ..that will help them get through the grow..

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I’d run the veg nutes for a couple weeks into flower..they still require a good amount of N early on ..that will help them get through the grow..

Thanks Max, that'll work. Running right about 400 ppm and everything in the res has been pretty stable. She was already starting to show great signs of recovery last night before lights out, I'm expecting her to be perked up great after I get a look this morning.

I was looking and thinking about it, Moe had mentioned waiting 3 days to flip. I am going to watch closely and perhaps go a day or three longer depending on how well she responds in the next two days. Many of the branches I left are small and sort of spindly and wondering if they will fatten up now that I have taken a majority of the larfy crap off. Either way, going for max yield here and will take a few extra days if needed in veg.

 

[Rootsruler]

I’d run the veg nutes for a couple weeks into flower..they still require a good amount of N early on ..that will help them get through the grow..

I like to blend flower and veg nutes the first 2 weeks of flip then full flower nutes.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

OK, so a bit of news to report today after Sunday's training session.

I was a bit surprised this gal did not come back stronger after Sunday. It was an intense session for sure, but I expected to see better recovery. I got in and started looking around and realized the waterfall in this system was not working at all. Upon further inspection, roots had traveled through the 3" return line and then got sucked into the line that feeds the waterfall pump. Anyhow, that line was completely plugged, had to pull it off and then stick my finger in the bulkhead inside the res to plug it, while with the other hand, got a new piece of 3/4 tubing installed on the fittings for the pump. I was surprised it didn't burn that pump out, roots had gone all the way down that 3/4" line and only stopped when it hit the rotors inside the pump.

Everything is back in order now but I was was wondering why the pH adjusters I was using were going haywire on me....like 2 ml of pH down took me from 6.1 down to 5.3, I'm like wtf! It was sitting in the res and not being circulated so now that I have full circulation restored, thinking this plant will now take off better.

Here are some current photos of the recovery.

 

[moe.red]

I'd also throw a towel over the top. Those yellow lids pass a fair amount of light.

Did you flip already?

 

[GrumpAzz]

OK, so a bit of news to report today after Sunday's training session.

I was a bit surprised this gal did not come back stronger after Sunday. It was an intense session for sure, but I expected to see better recovery. I got in and started looking around and realized the waterfall in this system was not working at all. Upon further inspection, roots had traveled through the 3" return line and then got sucked into the line that feeds the waterfall pump. Anyhow, that line was completely plugged, had to pull it off and then stick my finger in the bulkhead inside the res to plug it, while with the other hand, got a new piece of 3/4 tubing installed on the fittings for the pump. I was surprised it didn't burn that pump out, roots had gone all the way down that 3/4" line and only stopped when it hit the rotors inside the pump.

Everything is back in order now but I was was wondering why the pH adjusters I was using were going haywire on me....like 2 ml of pH down took me from 6.1 down to 5.3, I'm like wtf! It was sitting in the res and not being circulated so now that I have full circulation restored, thinking this plant will now take off better.

Here are some current photos of the recovery.View attachment 9042View attachment 9043View attachment 9044

Just a newbie's guess, but I'd say the pH took such a plunge because your water wasn't circulating. Did it level back out after you fixed your issue?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I'd also throw a towel over the top. Those yellow lids pass a fair amount of light.

Did you flip already?

OK, will do that with the towel Moe.

No, i did not flip yet because I thought it might need more time. Do you think it looks well enough to go ahead and flip now?

Just a newbie's guess, but I'd say the pH took such a plunge because your water wasn't circulating. Did it level back out after you fixed your issue?

That's exactly what was happening Grump.....actually that was the clue that had me looking deeper as to what the hell was going on.

 

[moe.red]

I'd wait a couple days bro. I know speed is of the essence on this grow but I think it is worth it. You want her healthy and well fed going into flower. I'd like to see less purple and a good handle on what's in the water / PH before flipping. Don't forget you need to pre-load with calcium.

 

[GrumpAzz]

OK, will do that with the towel Moe.

No, i did not flip yet because I thought it might need more time. Do you think it looks well enough to go ahead and flip now?


That's exactly what was happening Grump.....actually that was the clue that had me looking deeper as to what the hell was going on.

Always remain vigilant

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I'd wait a couple days bro. I know speed is of the essence on this grow but I think it is worth it. You want her healthy and well fed going into flower. I'd like to see less purple and a good handle on what's in the water / PH before flipping. Don't forget you need to pre-load with calcium.

I agree, at least that is what my gut is telling me. I think if that waterfall line had not been plugged she would be doing better. At least I found the issue so Im cool with it.

I'm not sure what you mean by preload with calcium. At this point I am not seeing any cal/mag deficiencies. I was going to go ahead and change the res soon, maybe a week into flip? Which means probably next weekend, but I could do it this weekend if you think that wise. As far as what's in the res now, it's hard to say because this grow has been such a mess and I have not documented much. Ph has been pretty stable however, just a slight upward trend that I have easily been able to control with PH Down. PPM's have remained fairly steady as well.

I have started amending the top off water so that I can use that chart @Anthem275 brought to my attention. @MrsSweetLeaf has been working on a daily tracking chart where I can record everything better. This is going to be my new way of topping off and I can use those charts to tell me what I need to do if things start to fluctuate too much. From what i am noticing so far, ppm's have been staying pretty constant, PH drifting ever so slightly up. Pretty close to ideal from what I can tell but I will know more once I start tracking daily numbers.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Here is the chart I am referring to.

 

[Anthem275]

For you Ro water concerns I would probably try to use a process of elimination to determine what is happening with your water. I would do 3 things. \
#1. I would make some fresh RO water up it in a vessel large enough so you can use your tools to measure the EC. I would put that sample in a cool dark place.
Nest I would take some of your current RO water and add about 2 or 3 drops of bleach.
Lastly I would make a second container of fresh RO seal it up and see if the EC changes on that one.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

For you Ro water concerns I would probably try to use a process of elimination to determine what is happening with your water. I would do 3 things. \
#1. I would make some fresh RO water up it in a vessel large enough so you can use your tools to measure the EC. I would put that sample in a cool dark place.
Nest I would take some of your current RO water and add about 2 or 3 drops of bleach.
Lastly I would make a second container of fresh RO seal it up and see if the EC changes on that one.

Sounds like a plan, thanks for the suggestion.

So just to be clear, gonna take these 3 samples and let them sit for a few days, check before and after ec levels and compare, correct?

What is the purpose of putting the bleach in sample 2? What would be the expected outcome of this part of the experiment?

Also, what is the difference between samples 1 and 3?

Just trying to understand what you are teaching here.

 

[Anthem275]

Sounds like a plan, thanks for the suggestion.

So just to be clear, gonna take these 3 samples and let them sit for a few days, check before and after ec levels and compare, correct?

What is the purpose of putting the bleach in sample 2? What would be the expected outcome of this part of the experiment?

Also, what is the difference between samples 1 and 3?

Just trying to understand what you are teaching here.

I left out a few things.
Put the sealed up sample of #3 next two or on top of storage for the existing RO water.
Bleach is to confirm if something is growing inside the rez causing the change in PPM.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Getting an update on this grow, chugging along and trying to build the canopy @CannaGranny style with my metal scrog. I've been pulling larger fans off to get air movement and continue to tuck, weave and top. I'm a bit out of my comfort zone on this plant, was going to toss it initially so had to do some major LST and try to get a good canopy out of her. I think I am getting ready to flip soon but thinking at least 3 more days.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

So I went ahead and did a res change getting ready to flip here in the next few days, thinking Saturday when I get home.

I built the res as follows-

~22 gallons RO water - ppm 70, pH 7.0
PH Down - 16 ml to 6.1 pH
Hygrozyme - 1/2 dose 40 ml
Cal/mag - 1/2 dose, 50 ml - ppm 250, pH 6.3
Brown @ 3 ml per gallon for 20 gallons - 60 ml - ppm 440
Green @ 2.5 ml per gallon for 20 gallons - 40 ml - ppm 520
Pink @3.5 ml per gallon for 20 gallons - 70 ml - ppm 600

PH Down to 5.8
Hydroguard - 40 ml

I also did a bit more defoliation and for the most part, picked all the bud sites, trimmed off branches that won't make the canopy. I upped the ppms from the 450 range to 600 because this plant has seemed fairly lethargic in its' growth. I have grown this strain before (first time I've said that!) and know how vigorous it can be, I'm not seeing that yet so I upped the ante a bit. She looks healthy for the most part, mostly 5 leaflet fans and a few 3's but this strain is known for that and I have seen that before.

I was curious what you think @CannaGranny of my scrogging. This is the most aggressive I have been on this plant and struggled to keep things as low as I can to be ready for the stretch.

I'm planning on flipping possibly around Saturday unless one of the experts think I oughta wait a bit longer.

 

[CannaGranny]

So I went ahead and did a res change getting ready to flip here in the next few days, thinking Saturday when I gethome.

I built the res as follows-

~22 gallons RO water - ppm 70, pH 7.0
PH Down - 16 ml to 6.1 pH
Hygrozyme - 1/2 dose 40 ml
Cal/mag - 1/2 dose, 50 ml - ppm 250, pH 6.3
Brown @ 3 ml per gallon for 20 gallons - 60 ml - ppm 440
Green @ 2.5 ml per gallon for 20 gallons - 40 ml - ppm 520
Pink @3.5 ml per gallon for 20 gallons - 70 ml - ppm 600

PH Down to 5.8
Hydroguard - 40 ml

I also did a bit more defoliation and for the most part, picked all the bud sites, trimmed off branches that won't make the canopy. I upped the ppms from the 450 range to 600 because this plant has seemed fairly lethargic in its' growth. I have grown this strain before (first time I've said that!) and know how vigorous it can be, I'm not seeing that yet so I upped the ante a bit. She looks healthy for the most part, mostly 5 leaflet fans and a few 3's but this strain is known for that and I have seen that before.

I was curious what you think @CannaGranny of my scrogging. This is the most aggressive I have been on this plant and struggled to keep things as low as I can to be ready for the stretch.

I'm planning on flipping possibly around Saturday unless one of the experts think I oughta wait a bit longer.

View attachment 10642

The day you go to flower, pull everyone of those tops out of your net and push them below it horizontally. At the current height of your top, you want them four to six inches taller than the table so you have something to actually push below the net. Right now, allowing them to grow through and you controlling placement is a trellis. I’d lower the table by four inches and go to flower, or allow them to obtain at least four to six above the table prior to flipping. You got this!

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Thanks CG, Yea, I think I have the basics, you might have missed how this gal started out. Did all that scrogging back on the first post and think because of the way this has gone, I am a bit out of order the way you teach but had to do it this way in this instance.

I flipped yesterday, thought I had that canopy fairly even and spread out. Not the best, but from what I started, I am pretty pleased with the way she is going. I probably need to do more tucking as things progress and trying to keep the stretch from out stretching my tent! I don't remember this strain being an aggressive stretcher so I think I may be good to go. I might try to tuck some more while things are still in the early stages.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

OK, so today is day 10 since flip, still not showing any pistils yet but lots of pre-flowers. I've managed to get that canopy fairly even despite the challenges this plant brought to my skills. If you look close at the lower branches/trellis shot, you can see how many branches I had to weave in and out of that thing to get this gal spread out. I did a moderate defoliation a couple of days ago and further solidified the bud sites, trimmed some large fans and took some branching I had either missed last time or left because I was unsure if it would be too crowded or not. I am noticing some stretch, I have some room to work with so thinking I might be good.

PPM's have remained very static, ph has been stable also but when I have had to bring it up, I am using the GH PH Up instead of the Agsil. I think things look pretty good, not seeing any deficiencies or excess, no leaf tip burn whatsoever that I can see, wooohoo.

 

[dragonsflamegenetics]

Here is the chart I am referring to.
View attachment 9057

thats a nice chart!

 

[dragonsflamegenetics]

OK, so today is day 10 since flip, still not showing any pistils yet but lots of pre-flowers. I've managed to get that canopy fairly even despite the challenges this plant brought to my skills. If you look close at the lower branches/trellis shot, you can see how many branches I had to weave in and out of that thing to get this gal spread out. I did a moderate defoliation a couple of days ago and further solidified the bud sites, trimmed some large fans and took some branching I had either missed last time or left because I was unsure if it would be too crowded or not. I am noticing some stretch, I have some room to work with so thinking I might be good.

PPM's have remained very static, ph has been stable also but when I have had to bring it up, I am using the GH PH Up instead of the Agsil. I think things look pretty good, not seeing any deficiencies or excess, no leaf tip burn whatsoever that I can see, wooohoo.

View attachment 12540View attachment 12541View attachment 12542View attachment 12543View attachment 12544

nice canopy going to be epic here shortly! Ive seen alot of really nice apple and bananas photos across social media, will be fun to see how she does for you. Not sure if i missed it, but was this from clone or seed?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

thats a nice chart!

I agree, still trying to understand and implement it but gaining.

nice canopy going to be epic here shortly! Ive seen alot of really nice apple and bananas photos across social media, will be fun to see how she does for you. Not sure if i missed it, but was this from clone or seed?

Thanks bro, hell yea. This was from clone originally. If you take a look at the very first post, you will see how this one started, wasn't perdy but is shaping up I think.

 

[TomH]

That plant looks like it should have a good amount of CBD, if I remember the traits properly.