Imperium X by Anesia in RDWC - Bud Builders

[MDK]

I have a hard time with strains that leafy. Defol imo is mandatory. I also was using amendments that weren't immediately available and my plants were praying like that and hard to keep fed. Easier in hydro for sure. I really battle humidity here tho and my dehu is kinda underwhelming at the moment

Beast of a plant.....trim jail...nah...trim fed pen lol

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I have a hard time with strains that leafy. Defol imo is mandatory.

Yea, I hear you bro. I should be used to it by now but it still pains me to pull so many branches even though I know like you say, mandatory

I've easily pulled more off these plants than you see on them now and a couple days later you can't even tell, although it's getting to the point where that part of the grow is almost over and got lots of space between the colas for the duration.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Flipped these gals on October 27 and today marks day 31, moving into week 5 and I think these gals are doing well. Been a bit of a challenge leaving for 3 days but I got these gals dialed in before I left last week and they are increasing their intake of nutes, I bumped em up to 725 ppm after seeing a bit of PK deficiency when I got home today, gonna see how that settles in and make necessary adjustments.

Overall, I am pretty pleased with how this grow is going. This is a robust strain and I am hopeful for a bountiful harvest in 5-6 weeks, breeder says 9-10 weeks.

I think I’m raising some holy rollers here!

 

[Anthem275]

View attachment 31564View attachment 31565View attachment 31566View attachment 31567View attachment 31568View attachment 31569View attachment 31570View attachment 31571Flipped these gals on October 27 and today marks day 31, moving into week 5 and I think these gals are doing well. Been a bit of a challenge leaving for 3 days but I got these gals dialed in before I left last week and they are increasing their intake of nutes, I bumped em up to 725 ppm after seeing a bit of PK deficiency when I got home today, gonna see how that settles in and make necessary adjustments.

Overall, I am pretty pleased with how this grow is going. This is a robust strain and I am hopeful for a bountiful harvest in 5-6 weeks, breeder says 9-10 weeks.

I think I’m raising some holy rollers here!

Can you point out the PK deficiency?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I took a couple of fans off that show what I am seeing. I assumed it to be P or K but also added a bit more cal/mag because I thought it could be that too. I'm not the best at diagnosing so thanks for giving a second look

 

[Anthem275]

I am not going to say my opinions because they are just like assholes everyone has one. Keeping an eye on the plant is a good way to learn. So just keep trying to learn. Every action. has a reaction, kind of like every person has an asshole

 

[smoke]

I took a couple of fans off that show what I am seeing. I assumed it to be P or K but also added a bit more cal/mag because I thought it could be that too. I'm not the best at diagnosing so thanks for giving a second look View attachment 31580View attachment 31581

Red stems possible phosphorus def without knowing if it could be the breeding.

Calcium def again with the red stems, calcium def can also cause red stems.

z
Calcium and phosphorus are both mobile

Sorry to be a ass

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Calcium and phosphorus are both mobile

Thanks smoke, always appreciate your insight. Still trying to figure this one out, a bit stumped. From everything I have looked at, the best I could tell is it's a Potassium def OR nutrient burn. I have to admit, I am confused here because I see what looks like the beginning of some brown spotting on the fans which says to me P def, in combination with serrated tips showing browning on many newer fans which could be nutrient burn.



Meanwhile, the water has been telling me they want MORE nutrients, which lends itself toward the P deficiency and not nute burn. I went ahead and raised the ppms up to 775 and been watching all day to see what they are going to do. So far, having done this work this morning, they seem fairly stable with the pH and ppms barely moving since I made these changes. The plants are praying like I have never seen in my plants so that tells me they are pretty happy and the praying got even more pronounced after these changes I made this morning. If I have to, I can dilute that down later with plain RO water, they are drinking 4-5 gallons a day atm so if needed, I can dilute down and at worst, I can change out the res and reset.

 

[moe.red]

Those are some seriously religious plants with all that praying going on.

You are kinda past the point where cal mag is needed in high qty, but it looks to me like at some point these plants wanted more. Speaking about the rust colored splotches in the fans. Those leaves will not recover at this point, but I would assume the big need is past.

I would be looking at resetting the res and adding in at flowering ratios. Specifically

Green Brown Pink CalMag
0 : 1 : 1.5 : 1

I say 1 on the cal mag just to make sure there is no issues still going on, but that should taper off in the coming weeks. As we spoke on the phone, since you are not getting new growth and N is a luxury molecule, time to start backing that down.

I would also back down the lighting just a tad. I do like them when they pray, but too much is a signal the plant may be in stress. VPD plays a role here too.

I would discontinue silica products if you are using them, or if you are still using them for PH put in maybe 1/4 your normal dose.

I think if you reset with flower ratios and turn down the light a bit, wait a few days I would expect things to stabilize out for you.

Your brix will suffer a bit with the fans not at 100%, but you have plenty of area for photosynthesis left, this is not a big worry IMO.

My target PPM for the res reset would be in the 400 range personally. If properly balanced, that is plenty for these plants. Again, IMO.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Those are some seriously religious plants with all that praying going on.

You are kinda past the point where cal mag is needed in high qty, but it looks to me like at some point these plants wanted more. Speaking about the rust colored splotches in the fans. Those leaves will not recover at this point, but I would assume the big need is past.

I would be looking at resetting the res and adding in at flowering ratios. Specifically

Green Brown Pink CalMag
0 : 1 : 1.5 : 1

I say 1 on the cal mag just to make sure there is no issues still going on, but that should taper off in the coming weeks. As we spoke on the phone, since you are not getting new growth and N is a luxury molecule, time to start backing that down.

I would also back down the lighting just a tad. I do like them when they pray, but too much is a signal the plant may be in stress. VPD plays a role here too.

I would discontinue silica products if you are using them, or if you are still using them for PH put in maybe 1/4 your normal dose.

I think if you reset with flower ratios and turn down the light a bit, wait a few days I would expect things to stabilize out for you.

Your brix will suffer a bit with the fans not at 100%, but you have plenty of area for photosynthesis left, this is not a big worry IMO.

My target PPM for the res reset would be in the 400 range personally. If properly balanced, that is plenty for these plants. Again, IMO.

Thanks Moe, excellent advice and thanks so much for the help. I knew in my gut there was something seriously going on here and you reminded me of the change in ratios and the light bulb went off. THIS is where i have struggled in all my grows and I am realizing I need to do more res changes, especially during flower, like maybe two or three when everything changes during flowering.

I did everything and just finished before I read this, here is what I did with the new res.

My water is still contaminated with something, not the RO system, I tested it and it's putting out like 20ppm RO, my tank lid just doesnt keep everything out of there so my starting ppm was like 120, I added 100 ppm of cal/mag and then using only the Brown and Pink at week 5 light feeding ratios, brought the ppms up to 515, was targeting 500 but overstepped just a bit, left it alone. A bit higher than you suggest, but taking into account my starting ppm, not bad I would think. I will keep an eye on it and see what it's telling me now that the ratios are properly adjusted.

Not using any silica in flower but if needed in small doses in this case, I would probably opt for that.

I think the light is currently at 90 or 95%, will bump that down to 80% for a few days and then crank it back up, perhaps next week when I get back from work.

Edit- I only had the light at 85% so bumped it down to 75%. So far, everything is staying very stable right where I left it after the change out. Thinking I am pretty close to dialed in, if the balance is off, it doesn't take long to show where you want to go, so pretty happy with this change out so far.

 

[moe.red]

Thanks Moe, excellent advice and thanks so much for the help. I knew in my gut there was something seriously going on here and you reminded me of the change in ratios and the light bulb went off. THIS is where i have struggled in all my grows and I am realizing I need to do more res changes, especially during flower, like maybe two or three when everything changes during flowering.

I did everything and just finished before I read this, here is what I did with the new res.

My water is still contaminated with something, not the RO system, I tested it and it's putting out like 20ppm RO, my tank lid just doesnt keep everything out of there so my starting ppm was like 120, I added 100 ppm of cal/mag and then using only the Brown and Pink at week 5 light feeding ratios, brought the ppms up to 515, was targeting 500 but overstepped just a bit, left it alone. A bit higher than you suggest, but taking into account my starting ppm, not bad I would think. I will keep an eye on it and see what it's telling me now that the ratios are properly adjusted.

Not using any silica in flower but if needed in small doses in this case, I would probably opt for that.

I think the light is currently at 90 or 95%, will bump that down to 80% for a few days and then crank it back up, perhaps next week when I get back from work.

Trying to figure out what is contaminating your RO. Makes no sense to me. Dust floating in the air should not really conduct electricity in water.

What’s the ph of your water that you are measuring 120?

I’m guessing something in your res is doing this. Is it a plastic tote?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Trying to figure out what is contaminating your RO. Makes no sense to me. Dust floating in the air should not really conduct electricity in water.

What’s the ph of your water that you are measuring 120?

I’m guessing something in your res is doing this. Is it a plastic tote?

I hear you, I've racked my brain on it. My storage tank is 50 gallon food grade plastic. The pH of that water is right around 7.

The only thing I can think of is I do have a submersible pump in the bottom of the tank with a hose out the top for filling buckets. I wonder if that could be the cause of this? I keep a towel over the closed lid to try to keep shit out of there as best I can, perhaps something from the towel is leaching into the water? I never noticed the towel wet or anything like that. It's a mystery to me and I hate having to start with so much in my water before I add anything.

I do have another one of these barrels that I got from a different place and is likely a different brand. Thinking I may have to try swapping these out and see if there is a difference.

 

[moe.red]

I hear you, I've racked my brain on it. My storage tank is 50 gallon food grade plastic. The pH of that water is right around 7.

The only thing I can think of is I do have a submersible pump in the bottom of the tank with a hose out the top for filling buckets. I wonder if that could be the cause of this? I keep a towel over the closed lid to try to keep shit out of there as best I can, perhaps something from the towel is leaching into the water? I never noticed the towel wet or anything like that. It's a mystery to me and I hate having to start with so much in my water before I add anything.

I do have another one of these barrels that I got from a different place and is likely a different brand. Thinking I may have to try swapping these out and see if there is a difference.

As an experiment you could leave a bucket of 20ppm water open in that room and see if ppm goes up. If not it is your pump or something in the barrel. I’ll place a bet on it not going up.

 

[moe.red]

I know you have seen this:



So I followed the pic to Aptus

Aptus - Professional Organic Boosters For the Finest Results - One Stop Grow Shop

Aptus brings to us the finest professional Dutch organic plant boosters Aptus Plant Tech are a Dutch company that pride themselves in specialising in the design and development of very high quality plant growth boosters that really make a difference. Now

www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk

Here is what they say about that image:

Aptus brings to us the finest professional Dutch organic plant boosters​

Aptus Plant Tech are a Dutch company that pride themselves in specialising in the design and development of very high quality plant growth boosters that really make a difference. Now there's a lot of boosters and additives out there. Virtually every nutrient manufacturer has at least one in their own line-up, most often a PK booster. However, Aptus Plant Tech's research led them to some very interesting conclusions about what a plant needs and when. This, in turn, led them to a very different approach to nutrition supplementation.

What Aptus Discovered!​

Aptus Plant Tech's research indicated to them that the nutritional profile required by plants is more complex than can be satisfied properly by just adding a PK booster for the peak weeks of flowering / fruiting. In fact, it showed that a plant's requirements change on pretty much a weekly, if not a continual basis:



Here is another good excerpt

The problem of overfeeding unneeded nutrients​

Secondly, raising the availability of a nutrient that a plant does not require in large amounts at a particular time can often result in more of that nutrient being pushed into the plant than it actually needs or can use. This can easily be seen in the case of when too much Nitrogen is provided. The plant sucks it up, and the excess N causes deformed leaves that curl downwards and the leaf tips become "burned" and go brown. Even if the particular excess nutrient does not seem to be causing visible problems, the additional nutrient hanging around in the plant not being used creates a less than favourable state of affairs for the it.


They mention "the plant" as a universal thing and do not discuss any methodology for this vendor driven study. This is marketing material. Does not make it wrong.

I think in general terms its pretty close though. Always an outlier plant that wants it different.

My opinion is less is more on nutes.

Edit: You can't really look at this chart as "time to add this" tho. For example, you gotta push calmag way eariler starting in veg IMO. It needs to be abundant in the tissues before flipping to flower in a RDWC setup, once you have a deficiency its sometimes hard to catch up on big fast plants.

 

[Pipecarver]

I know you have seen this:

View attachment 31856

So I followed the pic to Aptus

Aptus - Professional Organic Boosters For the Finest Results - One Stop Grow Shop

Aptus brings to us the finest professional Dutch organic plant boosters Aptus Plant Tech are a Dutch company that pride themselves in specialising in the design and development of very high quality plant growth boosters that really make a difference. Now

www.onestopgrowshop.co.uk

Here is what they say about that image:

Aptus brings to us the finest professional Dutch organic plant boosters​

Aptus Plant Tech are a Dutch company that pride themselves in specialising in the design and development of very high quality plant growth boosters that really make a difference. Now there's a lot of boosters and additives out there. Virtually every nutrient manufacturer has at least one in their own line-up, most often a PK booster. However, Aptus Plant Tech's research led them to some very interesting conclusions about what a plant needs and when. This, in turn, led them to a very different approach to nutrition supplementation.

What Aptus Discovered!​

Aptus Plant Tech's research indicated to them that the nutritional profile required by plants is more complex than can be satisfied properly by just adding a PK booster for the peak weeks of flowering / fruiting. In fact, it showed that a plant's requirements change on pretty much a weekly, if not a continual basis:



Here is another good excerpt

The problem of overfeeding unneeded nutrients​

Secondly, raising the availability of a nutrient that a plant does not require in large amounts at a particular time can often result in more of that nutrient being pushed into the plant than it actually needs or can use. This can easily be seen in the case of when too much Nitrogen is provided. The plant sucks it up, and the excess N causes deformed leaves that curl downwards and the leaf tips become "burned" and go brown. Even if the particular excess nutrient does not seem to be causing visible problems, the additional nutrient hanging around in the plant not being used creates a less than favourable state of affairs for the it.


They mention "the plant" as a universal thing and do not discuss any methodology for this vendor driven study. This is marketing material. Does not make it wrong.

I think in general terms its pretty close though. Always an outlier plant that wants it different.

My opinion is less is more on nutes.

Edit: You can't really look at this chart as "time to add this" tho. For example, you gotta push calmag way eariler starting in veg IMO. It needs to be abundant in the tissues before flipping to flower in a RDWC setup, once you have a deficiency its sometimes hard to catch up on big fast plants.

I like this chart because its very easy to understand, that round chart with arrows going here there everwhere its hard to grasp the big picture of, this lays it out simply and since I've been trying to follow it I've had much better leaf color & health of my plants, It was pointed out to me how the start of P & K are separated by 2 weeks and isn't week 3 where we bump our bloom nutes?. like straight up? I don't have separate P & K.

 

[moe.red]

I like this chart because its very easy to understand, that round chart with arrows going here there everwhere its hard to grasp the big picture of, this lays it out simply and since I've been trying to follow it I've had much better leaf color & health of my plants, It was pointed out to me how the start of P & K are separated by 2 weeks and isn't week 3 where we bump our bloom nutes?. like straight up? I don't have separate P & K.

Trying to grow to this chart with prepackaged nutes is like eating a steak with chopsticks. You can get it done, but...

 

[Pipecarver]

I like this chart because its very easy to understand, that round chart with arrows going here there everwhere its hard to grasp the big picture of, this lays it out simply and since I've been trying to follow it I've had much better leaf color & health of my plants, It was pointed out to me how the start of P & K are separated by 2 weeks and isn't week 3 where we bump our bloom nutes?. like straight up? I don't have separate P & K.

cut light up and on, a few danglies in the way and a red fluorescent light I have to remove...tomorrow...lol

 

[Pipecarver]

Trying to grow to this chart with prepackaged nutes is like eating a steak with chopsticks. You can get it done, but...

I see the slope on increases and decreases with when to add where as important. with when to max out and start to taper off. I think its the tapering off I like,,,,maybe I just like that word...taper has a nice ring to it.....tapering off...lights out in 5....lol

 

[smoke]

I like this chart because its very easy to understand, that round chart with arrows going here there everwhere its hard to grasp the big picture of, this lays it out simply and since I've been trying to follow it I've had much better leaf color & health of my plants, It was pointed out to me how the start of P & K are separated by 2 weeks and isn't week 3 where we bump our bloom nutes?. like straight up? I don't have separate P & K.

Much prefer Bill Farthing stuff as a guide

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

These plants look to be back on track today, I'm not seeing any further damage to the fans like I was seeing the previous two days, it happened really fast, barely noticing Monday morning when I got home and then later in the day noticing something was awry. After talking to Moe, I am thinking that smoke nailed it with the calcium def and I also think there was some Potassium def going on too, correct me if I you think I am wrong. It wasn't that the nutes weren't there, I believe I was experiencing lockout from the antagonistic relationships that I do not understand. I needed to get the ratios back in line and I do believe we nixed the brunt of what could have happened had I not noticed or taken action right away.

A side note, I was unaware that plants praying could be a sign of stress. They are still praying like no tomorrow so hopefully it's not stress related. Will bump that light back up Monday unless ya'all think it could go sooner.

Thanks guys! Hell yea

 

[moe.red]

These plants look to be back on track today, I'm not seeing any further damage to the fans like I was seeing the previous two days, it happened really fast, barely noticing Monday morning when I got home and then later in the day noticing something was awry. After talking to Moe, I am thinking that smoke nailed it with the calcium def and I also think there was some Potassium def going on too, correct me if I you think I am wrong. It wasn't that the nutes weren't there, I believe I was experiencing lockout from the antagonistic relationships that I do not understand. I needed to get the ratios back in line and I do believe we nixed the brunt of what could have happened had I not noticed or taken action right away.

A side note, I was unaware that plants praying could be a sign of stress. They are still praying like no tomorrow so hopefully it's not stress related. Will bump that light back up Monday unless ya'all think it could go sooner.

Thanks guys! Hell yea

The praying thing is like purple petioles. Not necessarily a bad thing but it can be depending on genetics.




In your case it just seemed to me to be really significant.

 

[Anthem275]

These plants look to be back on track today, I'm not seeing any further damage to the fans like I was seeing the previous two days, it happened really fast, barely noticing Monday morning when I got home and then later in the day noticing something was awry. After talking to Moe, I am thinking that smoke nailed it with the calcium def and I also think there was some Potassium def going on too, correct me if I you think I am wrong. It wasn't that the nutes weren't there, I believe I was experiencing lockout from the antagonistic relationships that I do not understand. I needed to get the ratios back in line and I do believe we nixed the brunt of what could have happened had I not noticed or taken action right away.

A side note, I was unaware that plants praying could be a sign of stress. They are still praying like no tomorrow so hopefully it's not stress related. Will bump that light back up Monday unless ya'all think it could go sooner.

Thanks guys! Hell yea

I have never seen plants prying like that where not happy and healthy. What we have to remember as the environment improves so does the plants needs. Hence CO2 increases as well as nutrient uptake. from what I have seen and my understanding Calcium was never a problem. Your plants are too far long in their life for those rust spots to be associated with Calcium. In my experience Calcium always shows up as a def. per the chart smoke posted above. I would consider either P or K. I am leaning towards things based on the plants requirements. If we look at the NPK values required something like 13-12-26 in hydro and Ro water we should focus on those values first. Considering the way N works it leans itself towards P or K being the problem.

 

[Anthem275]

I have never seen plants prying like that where not happy and healthy. What we have to remember as the environment improves so does the plants needs. Hence CO2 increases as well as nutrient uptake. from what I have seen and my understanding Calcium was never a problem. Your plants are too far long in their life for those rust spots to be associated with Calcium. In my experience Calcium always shows up as a def. per the chart smoke posted above. I would consider either P or K. I am leaning towards things based on the plants requirements. If we look at the NPK values required something like 13-12-26 in hydro and Ro water we should focus on those values first. Considering the way N works it leans itself towards P or K being the problem.

Also that posted article about praying plants being stressed can be true but along with the praying you are going to see tacoing of the leaves which is very obvious to see with the naked eye. I would carry on and modify your nutrient profile to include more P & K and also at week 6 limit N uptake. Some of this might require modifications to the nutrient profile outside what can be achieved with the pink brown and green as put. Might have to start to consider more than Pink brown and green in the near future.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I have never seen plants prying like that where not happy and healthy. What we have to remember as the environment improves so does the plants needs. Hence CO2 increases as well as nutrient uptake. from what I have seen and my understanding Calcium was never a problem. Your plants are too far long in their life for those rust spots to be associated with Calcium. In my experience Calcium always shows up as a def. per the chart smoke posted above. I would consider either P or K. I am leaning towards things based on the plants requirements. If we look at the NPK values required something like 13-12-26 in hydro and Ro water we should focus on those values first. Considering the way N works it leans itself towards P or K being the problem.

Thanks for this info Anthem, I appreciate your wisdom. I am still learning how to diagnose plant issues and always appreciate folks chiming in with their experiences. I know your advice was to change the res more often and I do think you are right, I just resist, maybe foolishly, because it's so much water and myRO system is inadequate for a weekly change.

I do appreciate everyone who tries to help on this forum, even if we don't always get it right. I realize that so many things contribute to something going wrong and trying to diagnose using pictures can be tricky. I try to do my own homework and then take into account experienced growers who are trying to help and then do what I think is best. May get it wrong, may get it right, but in the process I'm learning and sometimes, the hard way is the best way to learn by making mistakes.

I am very thankful to all who have helped me on this journey. Each of you have helped in ways that you may not recognize but I am super grateful that you all would take a few minutes of your day to help me, that's awesome and I always try to pay that forward in ways that I can. I'm super grateful to many here, including you Anthem. I think you are a fantastic grower and the info you have shared with me has changed my game, so thank you bro. Same goes to Moe, smoke, CannaGranny, Aqua, Steam and so many others.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Pretty sure I got whatever happened here taken care of with the res change. Always the beauty of hydro where everything happens at light speed. Many of the larger fans showed the deficiency with small rust colored spots but that has halted and the leaves still have much photosynthetic ability to get to the finish line. Today marks the 4th day of the 6th week, so day 39 in the books here with lights now off.

I've bumped the light back up 5% to 80% and will probably bring that up a bit more but I hate to mess with these gals, they seem so happy with what they have, 85% might be where I stop with the light. They're feeding at a steady 515 ppm and I'm anticipating to have to bring that down a bit in the morning, the pH is falling ever so slightly, want to get that on a slow rise.

Here is a few flower shots from today, already some nice color coming in the blossoms but a bit hard to tell on the photos.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Is lowering one side of the light ever OK when the canopy is uneven?

 

[steamroller]

Is lowering one side of the light ever OK when the canopy is uneven?

View attachment 32904

No pro but I do it all the time.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I know it makes me dizzy when I open the tent.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

View attachment IMG_3845.mov

 

[smoke]

They look really good.
Week 6 ?
Is this grow what you would consider one of your better attempts? Look like it to me. As @steamroller put it, your going to finish green