New Grow - 4 Site RDWC Maiden Voyage

[Anthem275]

Yes.

It that the minimum the light company recommends?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I think he told me 6" but I could be wrong, I remember thinking it pretty low.

 

[steamroller]

Scynce says the light can be 6-18 inches above canopy.
* 120 degrees is the ideal optic for vertical application allowing the fixture to be mounted between 6” and 18” over the canopy.
Taken from; https://hydrobuilder.com/media/pdf/instructions/Scynce_RagingKush2.0_User-Manual.pdf

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I'm almost positive I burnt em with the 70%. There are a couple of lower branches that are not near the canopy and they look fine, all the lower fans look fine as well.

Thinking I am going to keep at that 18" too, this is gonna take some practice, damn. Got it way up to see how they respond.

 

[smoke]

what day flower are you in SLG?

 

[steamroller]

I am not really seeing Calcium Def.. Secondly I have never seen it as what I am seeing as black spots around the whole outside of the leaves. In my experience it is more in the middle of the fingers towards the outer portion of the leaves.

I agree with the black spots.
I had to try to investigate more.

How about Manganese?
It really fits the bill although I don't see many with issues from it talked about often. Seems uncommon.

MANGANESE (MN)​

When a plant is deficient in manganese, the top leaves of the plant are afflicted. The top leaves of the plan will begin to yellow and die when there is a prolonged deficiency of this nutrient.

^^ I hate the drawing chart but it has written cues that are helpful.^^

 

[Anthem275]

I agree with the black spots.
I had to try to investigate more.

How about Manganese?
It really fits the bill although I don't see many with issues from it talked about often. Seems uncommon.

MANGANESE (MN)​

When a plant is deficient in manganese, the top leaves of the plant are afflicted. The top leaves of the plan will begin to yellow and die when there is a prolonged deficiency of this nutrient.

View attachment 1275
^^ I hate the drawing chart but it has written cues that are helpful.^^

Could it be Manganese yes. Likely no. Why because this falls into the Micro class of nutrients. He is using GH Trio and unlikely it does not have enough in it for the plant. I took a look on the web and it looks to to be immobile. See how the chart is showing it starting at the very top that is an indication of an immobile nutrient.

 

[smoke]

Bottom picture is my last grow. I think it was potassium def

Black spots?

 

[moe.red]

Holy crap I missed a lot. Sorry SLG - got some kinda virus and went to bed at 6 last night and just shivered under the covers. Been fighting it a couple of days, so have not been here as much. I feel bad I missed all this.

I hesitate to throw more advice at this point, except to say that let's slow this down while you get your arms around it. Back off the light in distance or intensity. That will also lower the temp (good) and change VPP to your benefit today.

I'm getting a little pissed off on your behalf that your app is not working. Without that the light is basically useless. Scynce needs to pony up and fix this pronto, or I'd send the light back. This is all kinds of bullshit for such an expensive light. That said, it's not the cause of this just a fly in the ointment.

For whatever reason I did not get alerts to the new posts on this thread. I have seen a few weird things along that line on other threads as well. I need to look under the covers on what is causing that!

If you are stuck and want yet another opinion, I'll chime in. But doing too many changes at once can be worse than doing none.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Holy crap I missed a lot. Sorry SLG - got some kinda virus and went to bed at 6 last night and just shivered under the covers. Been fighting it a couple of days, so have not been here as much. I feel bad I missed all this.

Don't sweat it bro, I hope you get feeling better soon!

I have the same attitude with Scynce, hopefully I can get it squared away today.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I have backed off the light to 50% and raised it way up over 12" above the canopy. Things look pretty good this morning, no further damage and the lower growth looks what I would call very good. I am all but certain I burnt them with the light.
It seems whatever def was going on is taken care of but I would like a bit of advice on amending the res to avoid any more. They are eating and drinking and ppm's have dropped to 450. Should I shoot to keep things around that 500 mark? What is the absolute low point where I should think about amending? Working with lower ppm like ya'all are teaching me so I am just not sure how far I should let em go before amending.
Here is a photo of some lower growth that has been unaffected by the light burn. Aside from a tiny bit of tip burn, I think it looks pretty good.

 

[moe.red]

I can't help myself... must comment...

I like to use a foliar feed to confirm my diagnosis on certain situations. Especially when I am not sure. This would be one of those based on what I read above.

I would choose a part of the plant and do a foliar of cal-mag tonight at lights out. Could do something else in another spot if you are feeling froggy.

Tomorrow AM wipe off any residue.

This is a sortof go - nogo on if your cure will work. Then amend the res accordingly.

In terms of PPM, you are not in any danger zone at under 500PPM unless you are out of balance. I use these kinda days to bring them back into balance. So rather than adding all 3 plus calmag, I would just add the one I think is the issue (deficiency) or add the others to balance the scale (too much of something)


Also, the whole light burn thing - I think most people think about that slightly wrong. It's not photons physically burning plant tissue, it is that you are stomping on the gas of overall plant growth and respiration. At least that is true in RDWC where water is never in short supply to the leaves. So if you have an imbalance, it shows up faster and harder. Any weak links will tend to bubble up.

Light intensity is like the volume knob on your stereo.
Spectrum is like your EQ.
Plants are like the speakers. You can absolutely blow them up.
I can go on with this analogy, but I'm sure you get the gist. If you think you blew a woofer, step one is turn the volume down!

Also, keep in mind there are significant hormone changes taking place in this plant right now. It's a randy pimple face teenager. If you are gonna have trouble, now is the most likely time.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Also, the whole light burn thing - I think most people think about that slightly wrong. It's not photons physically burning plant tissue, it is that you are stomping on the gas of overall plant growth and respiration. So if you have an imbalance, it shows up faster and harder. Any weak links will tend to bubble up.

I am learning this. @Anthem275 has been trying to help me understand this concept too. The analogy is a good one. Thanks.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

OK, so thinking this through with all the advice from you and Anthem, seems there was an imbalance and the light intensity forced that manifestation. So the question would be, what was out of balance? As far as I knew, I was good to go.

Anthem had suggested I change out the res and restart everything but I really hate to do that with all the wasted RO. I think the advice is solid, and would have done it in a smaller system, maybe I am just being too stubborn. I will change it out if I need to in order to save the grow.

I can try the foliar idea with calmag tonight, never thought of that one. I think I need to give back my 2023 gold star award.

 

[moe.red]

Keep yo award!

Personally I think this plant needed more calcium for a longer time, or at least that is what started it.

I need to go back and read all of what was said by the other guys, I skipped too much apparently.

 

[moe.red]

Edit, ive read in past that led lights bring out the calmag thing. Is this true?

YEs, confirmed.

I'm going to read all the crap I missed tonight and try to give my best advise. But I'm not worried SLG, we will get this!

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Thank you, I will try to get some new photos up before I have to go to work at the bar tonight.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Photos

 

[moe.red]

Photos

Yes I see your concerns. This looks like more than calcium. Would you say it is progressing? Any PH swings? Temp and RH?

I'll look very closely on the big screen and get back to you tonight.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Thanks Moe, I don't think it's progressing but could be slowly. I did notice I thought they looked pretty good when I went in and looked today.

PH has been fairly stable after last weekend when MrsSweetLeaf adjusted things, it has been trending up slowly and I have had to adjust but nothing radical.

Stats ATM - 75*F - 67%RH - ppm 440 - topping off about 2 gallons a day RO.

 

[moe.red]

Ok this is gonna be a long one.

First light stress.

This is my current grow. It’s instructive because I am purposefully inducing light stress.


This thumbnail has the beginnings of a bleached cola. I mentioned this in another thread, but I am testing the assertion I have read elsewhere that the white on top is super potent. Not relevant to you, what is: what that amount of photons does to a plant, and more importantly that it is a "spot" phenomenon. It happens in a radius around a light source due to the inverse square function. Light intensity drops off quicker than distance.

Look at the tacoing on these leaves supporting that bud. All that PPFD is overwhelming the support for the plant like it's vascular system. In that spot, VPD is different than the rest of the plant. And this is with supplementing CO2 at 1200PPM.



Now look at the bud just out of that volcano of photons (below) .

The difference in the 2 largest fan leaves is unmistakable. I am over-driving the top cola and my prediction is that it is detrimental.


That is the result of light stress alone.

This plant has no deficiency, just an inability to support that much solar energy. This is genetics that I cannot push this plant further.

You have something else. But please tell me how you are running a timer and what is the status with scynce.

I still suggest you back the light off. The opposite end of the spectrum from bleaching the plant we need to almost put it to sleep to let it recover. That's #1. They need a few cloudy days and some TLC.

I'm gonna go have some dinner with the wife, give this some thought, and give you my best analysis by the end of your shift.

 

[moe.red]

Oh and 2 differences in LED lighting are no iR and the leaf temp is always cooler compared to the air. It changes VPD, and therefore speed. Also changes water requirements. But being a calcium hog is partially genetic. If you remember, this grow I just posted I got behind on calcium right at the flip, but was able to turn it around in 24 hours with cal-mag. You did that already.

It's kinda a fugly stretch.

Your calcium need should have been under control and waning by now.

Just thinking this thru out loud.

Are you 100% that you are giving 12/12 and no light leaks?

Can you lower RH? 55% target right now. You are currently deep in the red on VPD, and when you have buds you will need to have it lower for mold reasons. 50% even better.

Still thinking.

 

[moe.red]

Is this one the center cola? If so I see problem on new growth worth calling Mrs. to ask her to reduce the light now if possible.

 

[moe.red]

and more importantly that it is a "spot" phenomenon. It happens in a radius around a light source due to the inverse square function. Light intensity drops off quicker than distance.

I don't see any stripe pattern of burn here.

 

[Moshmen]

Been following here trying to learn something - def imbalance in my opinion , I know prolly way past this but are there any solids collecting anywhere in the system ?

 

[Moshmen]

Remember light drives nute needs do if spectrum/intensity is off ……

 

[moe.red]

Fist off, you see how some of the new leaf grow has some tip curl. That is a sign of stress. It can be caused by too much light, nutrient problems or temperature problems. it is just an indicator and can mean any one of those things. Some of the leaves seem to have some discolorations but kind of hard to tell by the pictures.
I asked about the light because if you are pushing more light to the plants it can change nutrient uptake needs.

I agree with this.

 

[moe.red]

Been following here trying to learn something - def imbalance in my opinion , I know prolly way past this but are there any solids collecting anywhere in the system ?

So if you look at the last pic I posted there, I believe it is the apical meristem of the plant. Yes, I like big words and I cannot lie, no other brother can deny...

That has issues with new growth.

We are still deep in this problem and we need to help SLG out. Forget that this is hydro and focus on this as new growth. What do you do?

 

[moe.red]

OK SLG, here's what I am going with. You have an imbalance. Tada!

We tend to look at deficiency all the time - excess will mess up a plant just as bad in different ways.

I know you don't want to hear this, but we need to take the nuclear option here and rebuild that res. If you want some reading material, here is what I use to compare pics:

A visual guide to cannabis deficiencies

Worried about your plant health? See a cannabis deficiency that you cannot identify? Our guide to cannabis deficiencies may help you solve your problems

dutch-passion.com

I see multiple things going on. Old growth has different issues than new growth. But the fact that you are having issues with new growth at the transition is not at all good for yield. I recommend a 75% or better res rebuild with target finish ppms at less than 500. 1:1:1:1. Whatever that turns out to be. Depends on your starting point and how many gallons you flush.

The sooner the better. If you are not too tired, while they are sleeping is fine. No need to get in the tent.

What can I do to help you with this light? Want me to call them for you?

Scynce Headquarters​

• 4641 East Ivy Street, Mesa, AZ 85205
• (480) 256-0017
• info@scynce.ag

They work with texts too if that's easier.

We need to get this thing working so it can be actually therapeutic rather than an albatross.

 

[moe.red]

I think I am seeing signs of deficiencies Smoke so I assumed I let things get too low. Not sure, still learning here.


Oh ok, yea, I used a SE3000 on the Mendel grow and this is the first time I have used this light.

So yea, I have been slowly cranking the light up as I mentioned before, at 70% and raised up higher than the manufacturer recommendation at 8" above the tallest branches. Daytime temps have been in the low 80's, RH sitting about 45% atm.

I could have the light too hot for real, never used this beast before and that is the other thing that has been changing since I am working on raising that intensity. Moe uses these lights so I will be curious what he says after he sees these new photos.

The discolorations in the photos are indicative of what I am seeing. Here is a photo showing the light distance.

View attachment 1198

That height to canopy is good.

I’d go red big time if I had control. Simulate shade and cloud. Also helps with flowering hormones. And drop intensity. But height is right.