Silly experiments

[thebranchman]

Hey yall, this is more to document some stuff that I'm doing than anything else. As a bit of a warning, I absolutely hate spending money and some of the stuff you'll see here will cross into the cringe territory for some people. And as well, most of the grows im going to be doing aren't primarily for using the cannabis after, these are experiments and tests im running on a pollen chucked mutt. Some of these plants are going to die, on purpose. I'll apologize now for that haha. If anyone has questions or comments feel free to drop em in here. My mother has a severe ginger ale addiction! Only kinda kidding. I've cut up a ton of bottles that she saves for the bottle drop off to use for my net cups. Theyre all "dwc" starter buckets, they look like great seedling vessels. The tinfoil is garbage I know! I was lazy and or busy for a the few days after I put the beans in the starter cubes. The majority of them got too big before I could wrap it nicer.. had to go around every plant. If I keep these bottles permanently for seedlings I think I'll spray some adhesive on the outside and stick the foil on the bottles themselves. Much neater that way. Started them all off in 1 liter of my 50ppm tap water plus a bit of hydro guard and about the last of my gh rapid root. That was probably 4 days ago, yesterday after the first real leaf started to poke out I mixed up 1.5 liters water to 2000ppm, 1.8g cal nit, 2g masterblend 0-12-24, ph corrected to 5.8, 5.9 topped off all containers except two who's seeds haven't sprouted up yet. Tossing those two. Probably adding a small fan today or tomorrow to start gently blowing them around. Some of them still feel very very fragile. I probably should be waited until the roots were more established to toss them in cubes but it's done.

 

[thebranchman]

Some of them really didn't like getting put in the water that early, but others didn't mind it. I'm doing alot of reading into those beneficial organic components that can be used in hydroponics. Hopefully I can make a good concoction for these little ones but I think it will have to be my next grow.

 

[moe.red]

Hard to see what you have going on there, this is hydro?

I plant sacrificial stuff all the time. Not just that, I abuse the ones that are not as well. I grow way more than I could ever use, so why not color outside the lines and see what happens? Might learn something.

I am purposefully bleaching a couple right now so I can test the resulting THC. There are those who think this bleaching is actually just growing a full crystal bud of trichomes. I disagree. So I am testing it.

Old pic, that top is almost all white now.

 

[Bandit420]

Hard to see what you have going on there, this is hydro?

I plant sacrificial stuff all the time. Not just that, I abuse the ones that are not as well. I grow way more than I could ever use, so why not color outside the lines and see what happens? Might learn something.

I am purposefully bleaching a couple right now so I can test the resulting THC. There are those who think this bleaching is actually just growing a full crystal bud of trichomes. I disagree. So I am testing it.

Old pic, that top is almost all white now.

I get bleached tips just about every grow on random tips. I'll try to find some pics.
If I haul a lb I'd say around a 1/2oz is bleached. I don't think it's more potent than any other part of the flower or lacking anything either.
I've heard of it being full of trichomes and other mystical wonders but can definitely say that's bullshit. It's just bleached and nothing more. When it dries it goes khaki brown.
Some say it means you have a baddass grow light or a light that excels in far red and infra red but that usually comes from LED peddlers on forums and I wouldn't trust anything those guys say.
I have a Purpl Pro but never used it to just test white tips. IMO there's nothing special or bad about bleached tips other than they just look weird. I kinda see them as a sign I need to raise my lights

 

[moe.red]

I get bleached tips just about every grow on random tips. I'll try to find some pics.
If I haul a lb I'd say around a 1/2oz is bleached. I don't think it's more potent than any other part of the flower or lacking anything either.
I've heard of it being full of trichomes and other mystical wonders but can definitely say that's bullshit. It's just bleached and nothing more. When it dries it goes khaki brown.
Some say it means you have a baddass grow light or a light that excels in far red and infra red but that usually comes from LED peddlers on forums and I wouldn't trust anything those guys say.
I have a Purpl Pro but never used it to just test white tips. IMO there's nothing special or bad about bleached tips other than they just look weird. I kinda see them as a sign I need to raise my lights

100% agree. I just want to put it to bed with actual testing and post it up. That way next time I hear that, I can just drop in the link.

Now on the other hand, I am open to being wrong. I just don't think I am. We will let the numbers decide.

 

[Bandit420]

Some of them really didn't like getting put in the water that early, but others didn't mind it. I'm doing alot of reading into those beneficial organic components that can be used in hydroponics. Hopefully I can make a good concoction for these little ones but I think it will have to be my next grow.

I'm always down for a silly show! Done a few myself...Grown weed in a Topsy Turvy. Tried to use shredded tires as a medium. Grew autoflowers on a vertical NFT wall mount hydro system. That one was fun. Hung red mylar on my walls to increase yields. Most fail but it's still fun doing things like that. If anything it teaches us just how much shit we can put these plants thru and they still live

 

[moe.red]

I can't say what is the craziest thing I have ever done off the top of my head, but there have been some doozies.

Once when I was searching for THCv, I took a group of plants up to 3000PPM nutes to try to elicit a response. They responded. Not well.

I also heard bugs can bring out minor cannabinoids. So I punctured a bunch of stalks and leaves with a wire brush. Fail.

Had some happy accidents too tho, those are the ones that keep me searching.

 

[thebranchman]

I'm always down for a silly show! Done a few myself...Grown weed in a Topsy Turvy. Tried to use shredded tires as a medium. Grew autoflowers on a vertical NFT wall mount hydro system. That one was fun. Hung red mylar on my walls to increase yields. Most fail but it's still fun doing things like that. If anything it teaches us just how much shit we can put these plants thru and they still live

How did the Topsy turvy go?? That's been one I've thought about being funny to try out. One of my favorite lazy experiments was growing a plant dwc in tap water, it only grew a few inches tall but it still grew out.

Hard to see what you have going on there, this is hydro?

I plant sacrificial stuff all the time. Not just that, I abuse the ones that are not as well. I grow way more than I could ever use, so why not color outside the lines and see what happens? Might learn something.

I am purposefully bleaching a couple right now so I can test the resulting THC. There are those who think this bleaching is actually just growing a full crystal bud of trichomes. I disagree. So I am testing it.

Old pic, that top is almost all white now.

Yessir it's hydro, a bunch of 2l soda bottles with net pots and airstones in them. The bigger system I have is a 7 bucket, 6 plant site setup. It has a recirculation pump so it's rdwc but I also have airstones in there. The plants that are in there I'm pulling soon. All mutt autoflowers I've done 24/7 light, led boards turned up all the way until recently I brought it back to maybe 80%

 

[moe.red]

How did the Topsy turvy go?? That's been one I've thought about being funny to try out. One of my favorite lazy experiments was growing a plant dwc in tap water, it only grew a few inches tall but it still grew out.

Yessir it's hydro, a bunch of 2l soda bottles with net pots and airstones in them. The bigger system I have is a 7 bucket, 6 plant site setup. It has a recirculation pump so it's rdwc but I also have airstones in there. The plants that are in there I'm pulling soon. All mutt autoflowers I've done 24/7 light, led boards turned up all the way until recently I brought it back to maybe 80%

Let me know if you need any help. I did RDWC once. Twice maybe.

 

[thebranchman]

I can't say what is the craziest thing I have ever done off the top of my head, but there have been some doozies.

Once when I was searching for THCv, I took a group of plants up to 3000PPM nutes to try to elicit a response. They responded. Not well.

I also heard bugs can bring out minor cannabinoids. So I punctured a bunch of stalks and leaves with a wire brush. Fail.

Had some happy accidents too tho, those are the ones that keep me searching.

I think a thread about things like this is a good one to start, I love seeing peoples experiments and one offs, the crazy ideas that came out to nothing even are interesting to hear about

 

[thebranchman]

Let me know if you need any help. I did RDWC once. Twice maybe.

I'll need lots I'm sure but I hate to ask! It's a bit of a bad habit of mine, but it also helps me get a good understanding of things

 

[moe.red]

I think a thread about things like this is a good one to start, I love seeing peoples experiments and one offs, the crazy ideas that came out to nothing even are interesting to hear about

Man I have drives full of pictures of stupid stuff, and a couple of successful grows. I wouldn't know where to start.

Doing some crazy stuff with oxygen injection at the moment. And working on a side by side for RDWC and Soil, so we can proclaim one grow method superior for all time. Or not.

 

[thebranchman]

Man I have drives full of pictures of stupid stuff, and a couple of successful grows. I wouldn't know where to start.

Doing some crazy stuff with oxygen injection at the moment. And working on a side by side for RDWC and Soil, so we can proclaim one grow method superior for all time. Or not.

I've thought about this for a long time too.. I think one of the things about it is the same level of beneficial bacteria should be present in the soil and hydro for the most comparable results. A raw salt hydro will definitely look worse than an top level organic plant. And also, if the test happens indoors with soil and hydro, why not have someone with the space bring the same test outdoors? Have some massive reservoirs for outdoor size hydro plants and have their 8, 10, 12, foot tall outdoor counterparts grown nearby in the soil and see how they compare

 

[thebranchman]

Man I have drives full of pictures of stupid stuff, and a couple of successful grows. I wouldn't know where to start.

I see why you're so good at what you do then, lots of failures, lots of lessons, and not afraid to try more.

Doing some crazy stuff with oxygen injection at the moment.

I've read a bit about this in other threads I'm interested in how you're doing it and what the results and are definitely

 

[moe.red]

Well, I'm not sure I agree with the organic looking better than hydro, but whatever. We will see.

As far as outdoors goes, it adds a variable that makes the test nice, but ultimately irrelevant. All those environmental and lighting variables means you will not know what did what.

 

[thebranchman]

There's a really indepth level the organics can get to that those people claim is the best and makes the greatest profiles, and yields in mass and trichomes. I've seen only a few people who've said their stuff is organic that compares to something that comes out of like a crop steered coco that's more the norm for top shelf quality. I'm not an expert in anything but maybe we could get some input from some experts on both sides of the field for input on that, to get some super charged soil organics and some super charged biology in the hydro

 

[moe.red]

If I am understanding you, your statement is that organically derived nutrient molecules grow bigger plants with more trichomes?

Or are you equating organic with microbial life in the soil / res?

 

[Moshmen]

I think each has pros and cons scientifically hydro always gonna be better - but anyone can grow in dirt it’s slower for sure - it’s yield I’m curious about

 

[thebranchman]

If I am understanding you, your statement is that organically derived nutrient molecules grow bigger plants with more trichomes?

Or are you equating organic with microbial life in the soil / res?

It's not my claims but it's stuff I've heard people say definitely. And yes thats what I'd define organic as, just a good amount of microbial life. But i think other growers could disagree with me on that point and define organic in alot of different ways or have different requirements and disqualifications on what makes a system organic.

 

[smoke]

"super charged biology in the hydro"

Maybe that's what im doing?

 

[moe.red]

It's not my claims but it's stuff I've heard people say definitely. And yes thats what I'd define organic as, just a good amount of microbial life. But i think other growers could disagree with me on that point and define organic in alot of different ways or have different requirements and disqualifications on what makes a system organic.

OK, just important to define terms so we are not talking past each other. I think I see where you are coming from here.

There are really multiple separate processes that happen in the root zone as it pertains to microbial life. Because of this, certain terms like organic need to be defined as a standard thing. The generally accepted definition of organic is that the microbes in the medium break down molecules or convert them into a form that can be accepted by the plant. N, unfortunately, is not one thing and plants are picky about which ions they run up the stalk. If they weren't picky, they could grab all the N they wanted out of the atmosphere.

Inorganically:

Nitrogen is sourced from natural gas through the Haber-Bosch process. Nitrogen from the air with hydrogen from natural gas is heated and pressurized to create ammonia – the base component necessary for ammonium nitrate (AN), urea, or urea ammonium nitrate (UAN).

Organically, bacteria use sources like horse crap to convert that matter into ammonium nitrate.

The ending molecule is the same, the process to get there is not.

So, my definition of Organic is - a grow style that uses plant ready nutrients created by microbes during a break down process of more complex molecules.

Conversely, Inorganic is the grow style that uses man made nutrients.

These man made nutrients are not always directly available to the plant. Iron is an example. In the case of the metal salts, a process call chelation is used which basically binds with the metal molecule and puts a costume on it so it can sneak past and into the roots. I'll elaborate if you care and don't know.

I grow inorganically based on this definition. I do have trillions of points of life in my root zone tho. Both bacteria and fungi. Same stuff you find in manure, and more to the point same stuff you find in a healthy organic outdoor grow that is called in and encouraged by the plant in a symbiotic relationship. The plant excretes carbohydrates, aminos, proteins, enzymes, and even controls PH around the roots. This is what calls in the good bacteria and fungi. These excretions are called exudates.

I believe this dance is what you are referring to when you talk about microbes in the grow. Theoretically, the added complexity of interaction in the rhizosphere leads to more complexity in the bud. I believe this to be true, however I have a test on the drawing board to study this in the near future.

For us in RDWC, the question is not organic or inorganic, it is live or sterile. I run a live res.

I would not put my RDWC weed up against an organic soil grow if I thought I could not compete.

Same primary nutes - NPK - what the plant sees is identical from organic to inorganic and it cannot tell the difference.
Same bacteria colony on the roots.

I think I got a shot with RDWC over soil. Yield is not even in question. Just the quality. But I don't know that, I just think it, so I'm going to find out for sure.

 

[Rootsruler]

It's not my claims but it's stuff I've heard people say definitely. And yes thats what I'd define organic as, just a good amount of microbial life. But i think other growers could disagree with me on that point and define organic in alot of different ways or have different requirements and disqualifications on what makes a system organic.

That's the problem I have with "Organic". What does that word mean in the scheme of things? What baseline do we go off of to define something as "organic"?

When you take it down to a molecular level there is no difference in nutrient ions that are sourced from inorganic sources vs organic sources. AFAIK, inorganic sources will present as nitrates and ammoniums immediately available whereas organics will present as proteins and amino acids for microbial life to be able to break down organic matter into those soluble ions..

I'm probably wrong or at least somewhat off base but that is my understanding of the difference.

*****Looks like we posted at the same time*****

 

[moe.red]

"super charged biology in the hydro"

Maybe that's what im doing?

You are super charging something there mr smoke. I'm still gonna figure that out someday too.

Smoke is from category 3.

You got sterile - where you use a caustic like H2O2 to kill all life
You got Live - you cultivate several colonies of beneficial organisms starting with a bottle like Orca or Great White.
Then you got smoke. He only puts in water, cal-mag, a little hand creme, a shot of jack Daniels, and a capful of NPK and grows trees. He obviously has life in his res, just don't know what exactly.

But I'm not kidding. RDWC trees. Indoors. It's the damdest thing really.

 

[smoke]

You are super charging something there mr smoke. I'm still gonna figure that out someday too.

Smoke is from category 3.

You got sterile - where you use a caustic like H2O2 to kill all life
You got Live - you cultivate several colonies of beneficial organisms starting with a bottle like Orca or Great White.
Then you got smoke. He only puts in water, cal-mag, a little hand creme, a shot of jack Daniels, and a capful of NPK and grows trees. He obviously has life in his res, just don't know what exactly.

But I'm not kidding. RDWC trees. Indoors. It's the damdest thing really.

Thing is, its probably going to be something simple

 

[moe.red]

Thing is, its probably going to be something simple

Most plausible solution to me is that you do not need the bottle of starter bacteria in your situation. You have had a good colony rather than a bad colony populate your res either from the air or some other source. And your plants are healthy enough that they are not susceptible to pathogens.

 

[thebranchman]

OK, just important to define terms so we are not talking past each other. I think I see where you are coming from here.

There are really multiple separate processes that happen in the root zone as it pertains to microbial life. Because of this, certain terms like organic need to be defined as a standard thing. The generally accepted definition of organic is that the microbes in the medium break down molecules or convert them into a form that can be accepted by the plant. N, unfortunately, is not one thing and plants are picky about which ions they run up the stalk. If they weren't picky, they could grab all the N they wanted out of the atmosphere.

Inorganically:

Nitrogen is sourced from natural gas through the Haber-Bosch process. Nitrogen from the air with hydrogen from natural gas is heated and pressurized to create ammonia – the base component necessary for ammonium nitrate (AN), urea, or urea ammonium nitrate (UAN).

Organically, bacteria use sources like horse crap to convert that matter into ammonium nitrate.

The ending molecule is the same, the process to get there is not.

So, my definition of Organic is - a grow style that uses plant ready nutrients created by microbes during a break down process of more complex molecules.

Conversely, Inorganic is the grow style that uses man made nutrients.

These man made nutrients are not always directly available to the plant. Iron is an example. In the case of the metal salts, a process call chelation is used which basically binds with the metal molecule and puts a costume on it so it can sneak past and into the roots. I'll elaborate if you care and don't know.

I grow inorganically based on this definition. I do have trillions of points of life in my root zone tho. Both bacteria and fungi. Same stuff you find in manure, and more to the point same stuff you find in a healthy organic outdoor grow that is called in and encouraged by the plant in a symbiotic relationship. The plant excretes carbohydrates, aminos, proteins, enzymes, and even controls PH around the roots. This is what calls in the good bacteria and fungi. These excretions are called exudates.

I believe this dance is what you are referring to when you talk about microbes in the grow. Theoretically, the added complexity of interaction in the rhizosphere leads to more complexity in the bud. I believe this to be true, however I have a test on the drawing board to study this in the near future.

For us in RDWC, the question is not organic or inorganic, it is live or sterile. I run a live res.

I would not put my RDWC weed up against an organic soil grow if I thought I could not compete.

Same primary nutes - NPK - what the plant sees is identical from organic to inorganic and it cannot tell the difference.
Same bacteria colony on the roots.

I think I got a shot with RDWC over soil. Yield is not even in question. Just the quality. But I don't know that, I just think it, so I'm going to find out for sure.

beautifully written. I've seen you say live vs sterile before, that's something I need to add to my vocabulary. I agree with that definition of organic also.

 

[steamroller]

Started them all off in 1 liter of my 50ppm tap water plus a bit of hydro guard and about the last of my gh rapid root. That was probably 4 days ago, yesterday after the first real leaf started to poke out I mixed up 1.5 liters water to 2000ppm, 1.8g cal nit, 2g masterblend 0-12-24, ph corrected to 5.8, 5.9 topped off all containers except two who's seeds haven't sprouted up yet.

So is adding 2000ppm part of the experiment or do you usually feed seedlings that heavy with success?
Welcome to BB.

 

[thebranchman]

So is adding 2000ppm part of the experiment or do you usually feed seedlings that heavy with success?
Welcome to BB.

Ah I may have messed that up there, what I did with that 1.5L of 2000ppm is split it up 15 ways to make the plants sit in around 200ppm, I put around 100ml of that in each bucket. Thanks for pointing that out that would've been confusing

 

[Bandit420]

Bleach tip porn. Don't panic, it's organic

 

[Garbage_bear]

What is RDWC?