What's new
Bud Builders - Making Friends, Growing Cannabis

Register a free account today to become a Bud Builders member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on our site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox.

Join the fun and make some friends!

Greenpoint Seeds

Lots of these genetics are really still in testing phase and not proven, last run with with DFG testers, I had to toss 2 with herms, seems lots of unproven genetics that are a crapshoot. Glad some of you have had some success.
 
Mr.GreenthumbOG said:
Lots of these genetics are really still in testing phase and not proven, last run with with DFG testers, I had to toss 2 with herms, seems lots of unproven genetics that are a crapshoot. Glad some of you have had some success.
Click to expand...
Seems like even the old established breeders are selling herm seeds. I'll bet if we made a list of breeders with herm strains, there wouldn't be anyone left off.
 
growsinse79 said:
Seems like even the old established breeders are selling herm seeds. I'll bet if we made a list of breeders with herm strains, there wouldn't be anyone left off.
Click to expand...
Because no one cares anymore.
They just take an "elite" clone, cross it to another "elite" clone and think the offspring will be fkn top notch dank. When in all reality it's just low end super trash with 9,000,000 - 1 herm odds. 🗑
 
Like this........

Can't make 101 strains in a year and expect any of them to even be decent.
These cats at GPS are fkn fools.
Using herm prone genes to make seed stock....
yup. They got it down good. 20241025_071318.jpg
 
The timeline to be a top notch breeder does not conform with any good business model.
Nobody is willing to work for a year and possibly have nothing to show for it.
If I went into timelines that a real breeder has to work with all I would get is an argument that 'I can grow faster than that'.
Then if you are not known you need even more ambition and flexibility to get out there and become respected.
I spent years breeding my fish. When they were finally ready to be sold I had to sell for LESS than everyone who was already in the game to even have a shot.
4 years to become respected and known.
Doing it in less time is incredible feat IMO.
 
steamroller said:
The timeline to be a top notch breeder does not conform with any good business model.
Click to expand...
This ☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻

You are 100% correct.
No one wants to work for anything anymore, they just want the easy way out and it seems blasting out herms and wonky mutated genetics is the way to do that these days in the canna industry.

Not many will take a line and run with it for 7-10 years making it amazing.
They just go from one "best" right on to the next new "best"
 
GoodShit97 said:
Like this........

Can't make 101 strains in a year and expect any of them to even be decent.
These cats at GPS are fkn fools.
Using herm prone genes to make seed stock....
yup. They got it down good. View attachment 77982
Click to expand...
When you look at this you have to wonder if they have not crossed every single strain they have with every strain they have.
There 11 crosses of JUST Platinum Lemon Cherry Gelato~!
While most think there is 2 legs to crosses there are actually 3. This is in addition to phenos.
Beyond the mother and father there is one of the dominant parents of them. You know you look like your Grandfather?
Most do not understand the fine line between line breeding and inbreeding.
It is a fine line.
Top notch animal breeders that want best in show are willing to have 24 non winning offspring to get just that 1.
This does not work well in the cannabis industry IMO and a different path with different goals must be used.
The search for best is all good but to cross everything under sun to get it is like claiming you have good aim when you hit the target once with a machine gun.
Just my view.
There are good breeders out there and we have at least one that visits us here [Jeff/ DFG].
 
GoodShit97 said:
Like this........

Can't make 101 strains in a year and expect any of them to even be decent.
These cats at GPS are fkn fools.
Using herm prone genes to make seed stock....
yup. They got it down good. View attachment 77982
Click to expand...

This isn't the flex he thinks it is. It's a shame what he's done to GPS.
He also needs to drop that name "Stomper" from some of his shit. Stompers are practically on the Mt. Rushmore of cannabis and the folks at Gage Green Group should be pissed about being hijacked like that.

steamroller said:
The timeline to be a top notch breeder does not conform with any good business model.
Nobody is willing to work for a year and possibly have nothing to show for it.
If I went into timelines that a real breeder has to work with all I would get is an argument that 'I can grow faster than that'.
Then if you are not known you need even more ambition and flexibility to get out there and become respected.
I spent years breeding my fish. When they were finally ready to be sold I had to sell for LESS than everyone who was already in the game to even have a shot.
4 years to become respected and known.
Doing it in less time is incredible feat IMO.
Click to expand...

It's been a decade or two since I've browsed the chapter on breeding in my Ed Rosenthal handbook which is what I've always relied on when I cross plants up.
Curious, I dive into the internet to see what new info on breeding is out there and why it's like this in cannabis?
Rose, pepper, and tomato breeders gotta be laughing their asses off at this shit right?

It appears to me the reason breeding is fucked up in 2024 is people have simply been misinformed yet think they know what it is because they read a blog about it.
So you have a subject that in the past took 20 pages of a whole book chapter reduced down to a few paragraphs in a blog. And wow do those blogs miss a lot.
It wasn't until page 3 on a google search I found info that I have always understood how this works.
This is from Zamnesia who was/is a Dutch breeding operation that has since expanded into selling other products besides just seeds....

Starting with parents into F1

Screenshot 2024-11-03 085208.png

F2​


The next stage is to cross two F1 plants together. In doing so, you’ll find that the resulting offspring do not all show an Aa genetic profile. In this line of plants, the dominant gene (A) will begin to resurface, showing in more than half the offspring.


For instance, if you had four plants, two would be AA, one would be Aa, and one would be aa. So in the F2 generation, only 25% of the plants actually exhibit the desired phenotype. Dominant alleles (genes) are deemed dominant because they are far more likely to appear in offspring compared to recessive ones. If left unchecked, F2 plants would breed together, and, eventually, would more or less return back to the dominant parent that you began with, losing all of the recessive genes along the way.


F2 is where breeders like GPS are fucking up. They're not breeding. They creating polyhybrids where only 25% of the seeds are desirable and they're all mixed in with the 75% of unwanted seeds.
This is the essence of pollen chucking and it means that out of ten seeds in a pack, 3 will be desirable while 7 are a gamble.

Moving along.....

F3​


This third generation is where stabilization begins (but not where it ends). Those plants with AA genetics should not be used, as they only contribute dominant genes, wiping out the recessive ones. Rather, an Aa and aa should be bred together. Their offspring will then show 50% Aa and 50% aa—much closer to what we want. If you breed two Aa’s together, then you’d be repeating the process of breeding two F1’s together, resulting in a majority of AA offspring. That’s why you need to introduce a plant with all recessive genes.


In reality, you can’t “see” exactly what genes the plants have, but you can see what traits they exhibit, and infer from that. If you want short plants with high yields, then you only breed the plants together that show these characteristics, and discard the rest.


Three generations is not the end of the stabilization journey. You can go on crossing for many more generations (for example, producing F4’s and F5’s) if you want to create a truly stable strain.

It's to my understanding the standard is that it's not truly a new strain worthy of a new name until it gets to F6.
To get to F6 even at a speedy rate would take 2-3 years just on the known life cycle of cannabis and running the breeding operation 24/7 365 not to mention the dozens if not hundreds of phenos to sort thru......

Any breeders even doing this anymore or was it a casualty of Y2K or something?

Screenshot 2024-11-03 090140.png

IBL stands for “inbred line”, and it is at this point that a cultivar can be considered stable. This is the point you eventually want to reach from breeding F1’s, F2’s, F3’s, and so on. Now, if you breed two IBL’s together, you can expect every one of the offspring to display the same phenotype. If not, then keep crossing!


IBL’s can take years to create, depending on how many generations it takes. So if you’re serious about breeding, then prepare to be in it for the long run. You won’t create the world’s best new strain in a single crop.


For commercial breeders, IBL’s are the ultimate goal. These seeds produce very similar and reliable plants, meaning they can be sold with a high degree of certainty regarding what they’ll produce. If a strain hasn’t reached this stage, then accurate claims can’t be made about the plants these seeds will produce.

What we're buying these days in none of that above.
Read this description of polyhbrids and tell me this doesn't describe most new cannabis strains out there....

Polyhybrids are made by crossing two F1 strains. Remember that F1’s are full of genetic diversity, so when you breed two together, there’s a lot to play with. Predicting what this process will create is difficult, but the results can be extraordinary. That said, stabilising polyhybrids can take even longer.


Compared to creating F1’s, doing so with polyhybrids is much more of a gamble. That said, many breeders will pursue this route with something in mind—it’s just that the scope of unexpected results is much greater.
 
Last edited:
TomH said:
Great post. Gonna take a while for me to really get it, but this answers a lot of what I’ve been wondering…
Click to expand...

If you take a bit of time to read through some of Gregor Mendel's work, the whole approach behind plant genetics and breeding will make a lot more sense. @Bandit420's write-up is spot on and well written ... but even then, its a bit short of explaining everything that's happening when you attempt to isolate gene traits using physical expressions for desired traits. That's just the nature of this beast ... it can get pretty involved over time.

Now with that said, I'm in early flower right now. All genetics in this run are GPS and they all have "Animal Cookie" as one of the parent strains. I currently have Holy Smoke, Cookie Dawg, Fritter Cookies, and Dubble Cookies growing in my 5 x 5. I have not found any hermies yet ... my wife and I check every couple of days ... but I do have a mutant. My"Dubble Cookies" have mis-formed leaves but otherwise appear to be healthy. Below are a few pictures of my current grow;

2024 GPS Garden.jpg

Mothers and Clones in the picture above.

Dubble Cookies 2.jpg
Whole Plant picture - Dubble Cookies Mutant

Dubble Cookies 1.jpg
Close up showing mis-formed leaves
 
MiGrampa said:
If you take a bit of time to read through some of Gregor Mendel's work, the whole approach behind plant genetics and breeding will make a lot more sense. @Bandit420's write-up is spot on and well written ... but even then, its a bit short of explaining everything that's happening when you attempt to isolate gene traits using physical expressions for desired traits. That's just the nature of this beast ... it can get pretty involved over time.

Now with that said, I'm in early flower right now. All genetics in this run are GPS and they all have "Animal Cookie" as one of the parent strains. I currently have Holy Smoke, Cookie Dawg, Fritter Cookies, and Dubble Cookies growing in my 5 x 5. I have not found any hermies yet ... my wife and I check every couple of days ... but I do have a mutant. My"Dubble Cookies" have mis-formed leaves but otherwise appear to be healthy. Below are a few pictures of my current grow;

View attachment 78037

Mothers and Clones in the picture above.

View attachment 78039
Whole Plant picture - Dubble Cookies Mutant

View attachment 78038
Close up showing mis-formed leaves
Click to expand...

I had an ACOG with that same leaf mutation.
It seems the hermie trait is in their Animal Cookie line. It's like the more it's been crossed up, the worse it's become. Only now are they getting rid of it but it would be nice to see hermie disclaimers and discounts, maybe even let them go for free. The same with testers...they should be free too.
 
Bandit420 said:
I had an ACOG with that same leaf mutation.
It seems the hermie trait is in their Animal Cookie line. It's like the more it's been crossed up, the worse it's become. Only now are they getting rid of it but it would be nice to see hermie disclaimers and discounts, maybe even let them go for free. The same with testers...they should be free too.
Click to expand...

@Bandit420 I agree with everything you said.

I started the grow using the Animal Cookie parentage, knowing that this lineup has had some issues with hermies. My son requested these strains so that's why I'm growing them. However, you can count on me reporting my outcome at the end of this run. My setup is well dialed in so there's not much chance of environmental variables causing these to herm. If hermies show up, it will be 100% due to seed stock.

@Everyone ... wish me luck for no hermies this run.
 
MiGrampa said:
If you take a bit of time to read through some of Gregor Mendel's work, the whole approach behind plant genetics and breeding will make a lot more sense. @Bandit420's write-up is spot on and well written ... but even then, its a bit short of explaining everything that's happening when you attempt to isolate gene traits using physical expressions for desired traits. That's just the nature of this beast ... it can get pretty involved over time.

Now with that said, I'm in early flower right now. All genetics in this run are GPS and they all have "Animal Cookie" as one of the parent strains. I currently have Holy Smoke, Cookie Dawg, Fritter Cookies, and Dubble Cookies growing in my 5 x 5. I have not found any hermies yet ... my wife and I check every couple of days ... but I do have a mutant. My"Dubble Cookies" have mis-formed leaves but otherwise appear to be healthy. Below are a few pictures of my current grow;

View attachment 78037

Mothers and Clones in the picture above.

View attachment 78039
Whole Plant picture - Dubble Cookies Mutant

View attachment 78038
Close up showing mis-formed leaves
Click to expand...
Probably a “capt obvious” question, but are referring to the cross-over fingers as the mutation?

I had that on a Crystal Berry plant, I thought I had messed it up.
 
TomH said:
Probably a “capt obvious” question, but are referring to the cross-over fingers as the mutation?

I had that on a Crystal Berry plant, I thought I had messed it up.
Click to expand...
By the way, its one of the most potent plants I’ve grown, I like the buzz but not particularly fond of the flavor.
 
TomH said:
Probably a “capt obvious” question, but are referring to the cross-over fingers as the mutation?

I had that on a Crystal Berry plant, I thought I had messed it up.
Click to expand...
@TomH Yes ... the way the leaves are growing is the mutation I'm speaking of. I've seen this before in a "white label" sour diesel I grew several years back. That plant also grew with 2 main stems. In the case of the sour diesel, the mutation did not hurt the the quality of the harvest.

(White label = Generic/bulk seeds)
 
Bandit420 said:
This isn't the flex he thinks it is. It's a shame what he's done to GPS.
He also needs to drop that name "Stomper" from some of his shit. Stompers are practically on the Mt. Rushmore of cannabis and the folks at Gage Green Group should be pissed about being hijacked like that.



It's been a decade or two since I've browsed the chapter on breeding in my Ed Rosenthal handbook which is what I've always relied on when I cross plants up.
Curious, I dive into the internet to see what new info on breeding is out there and why it's like this in cannabis?
Rose, pepper, and tomato breeders gotta be laughing their asses off at this shit right?

It appears to me the reason breeding is fucked up in 2024 is people have simply been misinformed yet think they know what it is because they read a blog about it.
So you have a subject that in the past took 20 pages of a whole book chapter reduced down to a few paragraphs in a blog. And wow do those blogs miss a lot.
It wasn't until page 3 on a google search I found info that I have always understood how this works.
This is from Zamnesia who was/is a Dutch breeding operation that has since expanded into selling other products besides just seeds....

Starting with parents into F1

View attachment 77989

F2​


The next stage is to cross two F1 plants together. In doing so, you’ll find that the resulting offspring do not all show an Aa genetic profile. In this line of plants, the dominant gene (A) will begin to resurface, showing in more than half the offspring.


For instance, if you had four plants, two would be AA, one would be Aa, and one would be aa. So in the F2 generation, only 25% of the plants actually exhibit the desired phenotype. Dominant alleles (genes) are deemed dominant because they are far more likely to appear in offspring compared to recessive ones. If left unchecked, F2 plants would breed together, and, eventually, would more or less return back to the dominant parent that you began with, losing all of the recessive genes along the way.


F2 is where breeders like GPS are fucking up. They're not breeding. They creating polyhybrids where only 25% of the seeds are desirable and they're all mixed in with the 75% of unwanted seeds.
This is the essence of pollen chucking and it means that out of ten seeds in a pack, 3 will be desirable while 7 are a gamble.

Moving along.....

F3​


This third generation is where stabilization begins (but not where it ends). Those plants with AA genetics should not be used, as they only contribute dominant genes, wiping out the recessive ones. Rather, an Aa and aa should be bred together. Their offspring will then show 50% Aa and 50% aa—much closer to what we want. If you breed two Aa’s together, then you’d be repeating the process of breeding two F1’s together, resulting in a majority of AA offspring. That’s why you need to introduce a plant with all recessive genes.


In reality, you can’t “see” exactly what genes the plants have, but you can see what traits they exhibit, and infer from that. If you want short plants with high yields, then you only breed the plants together that show these characteristics, and discard the rest.


Three generations is not the end of the stabilization journey. You can go on crossing for many more generations (for example, producing F4’s and F5’s) if you want to create a truly stable strain.

It's to my understanding the standard is that it's not truly a new strain worthy of a new name until it gets to F6.
To get to F6 even at a speedy rate would take 2-3 years just on the known life cycle of cannabis and running the breeding operation 24/7 365 not to mention the dozens if not hundreds of phenos to sort thru......

Any breeders even doing this anymore or was it a casualty of Y2K or something?

View attachment 78023

IBL stands for “inbred line”, and it is at this point that a cultivar can be considered stable. This is the point you eventually want to reach from breeding F1’s, F2’s, F3’s, and so on. Now, if you breed two IBL’s together, you can expect every one of the offspring to display the same phenotype. If not, then keep crossing!


IBL’s can take years to create, depending on how many generations it takes. So if you’re serious about breeding, then prepare to be in it for the long run. You won’t create the world’s best new strain in a single crop.


For commercial breeders, IBL’s are the ultimate goal. These seeds produce very similar and reliable plants, meaning they can be sold with a high degree of certainty regarding what they’ll produce. If a strain hasn’t reached this stage, then accurate claims can’t be made about the plants these seeds will produce.

What we're buying these days in none of that above.
Read this description of polyhbrids and tell me this doesn't describe most new cannabis strains out there....

Polyhybrids are made by crossing two F1 strains. Remember that F1’s are full of genetic diversity, so when you breed two together, there’s a lot to play with. Predicting what this process will create is difficult, but the results can be extraordinary. That said, stabilising polyhybrids can take even longer.


Compared to creating F1’s, doing so with polyhybrids is much more of a gamble. That said, many breeders will pursue this route with something in mind—it’s just that the scope of unexpected results is much greater.
Click to expand...
It's hard to find hybrid strains nowadays. Almost everything out there is Polybrid.
 
Along with the hermie issues, you have to question some of their quality too........ way too many disappoints with them. Now you know why they are selling pack for $20. That's not to say you won't get lucky here and there, but i'm not waiting 3 1/2 month anymore to find out.
 
MiGrampa said:
@Bandit420 I agree with everything you said.

I started the grow using the Animal Cookie parentage, knowing that this lineup has had some issues with hermies. My son requested these strains so that's why I'm growing them. However, you can count on me reporting my outcome at the end of this run. My setup is well dialed in so there's not much chance of environmental variables causing these to herm. If hermies show up, it will be 100% due to seed stock.

@Everyone ... wish me luck for no hermies this run.
Click to expand...


When I have spare plants I abuse them just to see what they'll do.
Most recently last week I gave a runt female and 4 males two weeks into flower 24 hours of light going from indoors to outdoors. So they got 12 hours of LED and 12 of Sun. Couldn't get one to hermie or anything. The female stalled out and is growing again while the males just kept going like it didn't matter at all. I can't stress a plant into hermie no matter how hard I try.
This LA hermie has been absolutely pampered but it went full send on the tranny bits anyways
 
GoodShit97 said:
View attachment 78052

Pollen chucking only gets you so far lol
Click to expand...
Hey I have say 10,000 seeds after a few full on hermies over the years, maybe more if I sweep up. Whats to stop me building a website, advertising with a bunch of pretty pics of strains i've grown over the years adding all of the appropriate B.S, spread rumors of great grows from my BS web site on all the platforms and mail off seeds? Some will be great others will be iffy, just send freebies and carry on with the complaints, I'd get a good year maybe 2 after before all hell would break. Stop open a new site and carry on? Fk seems easy.

Hey forget what I said above I got some great seeds going for $100 get 10 and I'll add a free pack of 5 super duper seeds. Now for the website....I'll be rich....lol
 
Pipecarver said:
Hey I have say 10,000 seeds after a few full on hermies over the years, maybe more if I sweep up. Whats to stop me building a website, advertising with a bunch of pretty pics of strains i've grown over the years adding all of the appropriate B.S, spread rumors of great grows from my BS web site on all the platforms and mail off seeds? Some will be great others will be iffy, just send freebies and carry on with the complaints, I'd get a good year maybe 2 after before all hell would break. Stop open a new site and carry on? Fk seems easy.

Hey forget what I said above I got some great seeds going for $100 get 10 and I'll add a free pack of 5 super duper seeds. Now for the website....I'll be rich....lol
Click to expand...
Lmaooooo
 
Bandit420 said:
When I have spare plants I abuse them just to see what they'll do.
Most recently last week I gave a runt female and 4 males two weeks into flower 24 hours of light going from indoors to outdoors. So they got 12 hours of LED and 12 of Sun. Couldn't get one to hermie or anything. The female stalled out and is growing again while the males just kept going like it didn't matter at all. I can't stress a plant into hermie no matter how hard I try.
This LA hermie has been absolutely pampered but it went full send on the tranny bits anyways
Click to expand...

I stuck my extra PD outside 20240825, about 69 days ago.

IMG_1294.jpegIMG_1295.jpeg

Been covering at night when it’s cold.
 
Everyone knows when a plant throws balls it has both male female reproductive organs.same with us…it’s genetic lmao.is he going to say if you grow outside and it throws balls it’s grower error .I bet 100% he’s talking about when a plant throws a nanner(s) that can b from from enviromental stress or the plants late ditch to reproduce..that is not a 100% hermaphrodite.
 
Don't defend him cause that's not possible.........this has been going on for years, and he's done nothing to improve the issue. I've grown some of his fem's that were full blown males but feminized. How is that even possible?
 
My last grow, his Dalato testers, only had 1 out of 4 herm, and it was a weak herm. I only plucked balls once and it was nothing like I've plucked in the past. I wasn't surprised, since they were labeled testers and I got them for free.

HOWEVER, 3 out of the 4 grew like the retard mutants described above. First sign of mutants, for me, was how they never stopped stretching. 6-7 weeks into flower and still growing INCHES per day. Building buds and still stretching. Stretched through the roof of my tent clear to the ceiling. Granted, I could've supercropped them but their buds were visibly behind the one that grew well. Airy/Spacey nugs like a plant full of LARF. I ended up chopping 2 of them and I just threw them out on the back porch to make room for the 2 I kept. They were hogging all the light and casting shadows on the 1 I was actually proud of.
 
GrumpAzz said:
My last grow, his Dalato testers, only had 1 out of 4 herm, and it was a weak herm. I only plucked balls once and it was nothing like I've plucked in the past. I wasn't surprised, since they were labeled testers and I got them for free.

HOWEVER, 3 out of the 4 grew like the retard mutants described above. First sign of mutants, for me, was how they never stopped stretching. 6-7 weeks into flower and still growing INCHES per day. Building buds and still stretching. Stretched through the roof of my tent clear to the ceiling. Granted, I could've supercropped them but their buds were visibly behind the one that grew well. Airy/Spacey nugs like a plant full of LARF. I ended up chopping 2 of them and I just threw them out on the back porch to make room for the 2 I kept. They were hogging all the light and casting shadows on the 1 I was actually proud of.
Click to expand...

I was kinda surprised how ez it is to neuter a hermie. I've always just trashed them but I want to keep this one alive so I can inspect it's roots later. So I knocked the pods off so it wouldn't pollinate anything else in the backyard. And the good thing is that it's rainy this week so if any open they'll be tamped down.
But yeah man all I did to remove them was put my fingers on top of a cluster and push down. They snapped right off. Some of the smaller and tighter ones I just smashed and deformed. Others if they persist, I may just remove branches but two days later they don't seem to wanna pop more out.
 
The ones that aren’t full blown can catch you out too when they are in the mid section where you can’t see sometimes and most of us aren’t really looking for them either. not down there.ive found them open once and was real pissed off but I never scrapped them.hoping that there will b only so many seeds …at the end there wasn’t any seeds…apparently the pollen wasn’t viable.
i was taking them off just like you was bandit.wetting my fingers .was going over the plants like a fine toothed comb.what a pita that was checking the plants for weeks lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

GoodShit97
G$ with a 9 plant SoG with Greenpoint Seeds, Dutch Passion, and "Tengu seed co" (if thats even still a thing)
3 4 5
Replies
162
Views
20K
Zen_seeker
Zen_seeker
Mr.GreenthumbOG
Mr.G’s Greenpoint Grow
2 3 4
Replies
157
Views
17K
Mr.GreenthumbOG
Mr.GreenthumbOG
Garbage_bear
Who sells legit GMO seeds?
Replies
4
Views
525
Garbage_bear
Garbage_bear
pk1
Complete 6 Step-by-Step Guide to Growing Marijuana From Seeds
Replies
4
Views
5K
CannaGranny
CannaGranny
I
Anesia Seeds Grow - Sleepy Joe, StrawberryTree, High Mars, Captain Future cultivars
Replies
23
Views
6K
IamN2pot
I
Back
Top Bottom