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Grump's Dalato Grow 🌱

Figure 1. Proposed explanatory model of plants photoreceptors activity upon activated by light. (a) The biological active Pfr form of the phytochrome is activated by red light (R).

The interaction between Pfr and PIFs triggers the rapid phosphorylation of PIFs entering protein degradation via the ubiquitin 26S proteasome pathway promoting photomorphogenesis. Pfr also induces COP1-SPA1 complex dissociation.

All these pathways lead to the accumulation of major transcription factors (TFs) triggering photomorphogenesis such as HY5 (b) Two mechanisms are represented for cryptochrome signal transduction.

Transcription regulation of light-activated Cry after interaction with TF CIB1 and its relatives (CIBs) leads to the activation of FT transcription, promoting floral initiation.

The other mechanisms involve the interaction of cryptochromes with SPA1 proteins to suppress SPA1 activation of COP1 activity necessary for the degradation of HY5, HYH, CO, and other transcription regulators promoting photomorphogenesis.

(c) ztls are activated by UV-A/blue light. Once activated, they interact with GI, resulting in the stabilization of these receptors, enabling them to act as E3 ligases which target the transcriptional regulators CDF and TOC1 for degradation.

In addition, light-activated FKF1 interacts with and stabilizes CO. (d) The inactive dimeric form of UVR8 is activated to the monomeric form by UV-B, which interacts with the E3 ubiquitin ligase COP1. With the suppression of COP1, HY5 and HYH are stabilized. These two proteins, in a feed-forward loop, bind to the HY5 promoter region with further activation of transcription.
Plants 09 00894 g001

www.mdpi.com

Distinct Responses to Light in Plants

The development of almost every living organism is, to some extent, regulated by light. When discussing light regulation on biological systems, one is referring to the sun that has long been positioned in the center of the solar system. Through light regulation, all life forms have evolved...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com


yea i dont understand all of this fully yet, but id like to.




shit starts to get really complex when you study organic chem.
 
Observer said:
Figure 1. Proposed explanatory model of plants photoreceptors activity upon activated by light. (a) The biological active Pfr form of the phytochrome is activated by red light (R). The interaction between Pfr and PIFs triggers the rapid phosphorylation of PIFs entering protein degradation via the ubiquitin 26S proteasome pathway promoting photomorphogenesis. Pfr also induces COP1-SPA1 complex dissociation. All these pathways lead to the accumulation of major transcription factors (TFs) triggering photomorphogenesis such as HY5 (b) Two mechanisms are represented for cryptochrome signal transduction. Transcription regulation of light-activated Cry after interaction with TF CIB1 and its relatives (CIBs) leads to the activation of FT transcription, promoting floral initiation. The other mechanisms involve the interaction of cryptochromes with SPA1 proteins to suppress SPA1 activation of COP1 activity necessary for the degradation of HY5, HYH, CO, and other transcription regulators promoting photomorphogenesis. (c) ztls are activated by UV-A/blue light. Once activated, they interact with GI, resulting in the stabilization of these receptors, enabling them to act as E3 ligases which target the transcriptional regulators CDF and TOC1 for degradation. In addition, light-activated FKF1 interacts with and stabilizes CO. (d) The inactive dimeric form of UVR8 is activated to the monomeric form by UV-B, which interacts with the E3 ubiquitin ligase COP1. With the suppression of COP1, HY5 and HYH are stabilized. These two proteins, in a feed-forward loop, bind to the HY5 promoter region with further activation of transcription.
Plants 09 00894 g001
Click to expand...



heres a little info on photoreceptors and photomorphogenesis.
 
Observer said:
Figure 1. Proposed explanatory model of plants photoreceptors activity upon activated by light. (a) The biological active Pfr form of the phytochrome is activated by red light (R).

The interaction between Pfr and PIFs triggers the rapid phosphorylation of PIFs entering protein degradation via the ubiquitin 26S proteasome pathway promoting photomorphogenesis. Pfr also induces COP1-SPA1 complex dissociation.

All these pathways lead to the accumulation of major transcription factors (TFs) triggering photomorphogenesis such as HY5 (b) Two mechanisms are represented for cryptochrome signal transduction.

Transcription regulation of light-activated Cry after interaction with TF CIB1 and its relatives (CIBs) leads to the activation of FT transcription, promoting floral initiation.

The other mechanisms involve the interaction of cryptochromes with SPA1 proteins to suppress SPA1 activation of COP1 activity necessary for the degradation of HY5, HYH, CO, and other transcription regulators promoting photomorphogenesis.

(c) ztls are activated by UV-A/blue light. Once activated, they interact with GI, resulting in the stabilization of these receptors, enabling them to act as E3 ligases which target the transcriptional regulators CDF and TOC1 for degradation.

In addition, light-activated FKF1 interacts with and stabilizes CO. (d) The inactive dimeric form of UVR8 is activated to the monomeric form by UV-B, which interacts with the E3 ubiquitin ligase COP1. With the suppression of COP1, HY5 and HYH are stabilized. These two proteins, in a feed-forward loop, bind to the HY5 promoter region with further activation of transcription.
Plants 09 00894 g001

www.mdpi.com

Distinct Responses to Light in Plants

The development of almost every living organism is, to some extent, regulated by light. When discussing light regulation on biological systems, one is referring to the sun that has long been positioned in the center of the solar system. Through light regulation, all life forms have evolved...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com


yea i dont understand all of this fully yet, but id like to.

Yea the synergies are important to understand between I /blie and red/far red.
Click to expand...

Thats part of what i was talking about earlier on how his spectrum was responsible for stretching. The importance of understanding the red/far red and UV/blue light have large effects on the morphology of the plant
 
Aqua Man said:
Thats part of what i was talking about earlier on how his spectrum was responsible for stretching. The importance of understanding the red/far red and UV/blue light have large effects on the morphology of the plant
Click to expand...
was thinking this was a good paper for what we are biomechanically talking about.

and theres a few more out there too
 
Observer said:
was thinking this was a good paper for what we are biomechanically talking about.

and theres a few more out there too
Click to expand...
Yea there are tons out there and a really good one thats is a collective summary of probably 30+ studies on cannabis.

I’ll find it tomorrow. Off to bed
 
Aqua Man said:
Yea there are tons out there and a really good one thats is a collective summary of probably 30+ studies on cannabis.

I’ll find it tomorrow. Off to bed
Click to expand...
thanks man

night
 
Well this guy bounced back pretty quick and the stem doesn't look all wimpy this morning. The other is doing alright too.
1000014159.jpg

This one is chugging along and she's the reason they all got a bump up to 230ppm. The roots are comparable on all the plants.
20240730_074350.jpg20240730_074430.jpg
1000014156.jpg

And then there's this damn thang. She's trying to earn her spot back in the tent. 3 days ago her top was below the lip of the netpot.
1000014161.jpg

Whether it was lowering the intensity or fixing the spectrum, or just lowering the speed on my fans, it seems to have helped.
 
Last edited:
Stoneyluv said:
i say pick one and run.. if it fails start again and pick the other path... if that path fails too then it's time to get out the machete and carve your own path (meaning it might be something other than light power)
Click to expand...
Well I did a few things but it seems to have helped. Everyone looked good before work tonight.

I lowered the speeds on my oscillating fans just in case they were blowing them over.

I put in a spectrum ratio of 4r : 5w : 10b which is basically as low as I can go in intensity while keeping the recommended ratio.

I lowered room temp and brought the leaf temps down to ~76 and dropped the humidity so that the VPD hovers around 1.

Res change this morning to give them a little more silicate and a boost in Nitrogen. They also got a small dose of CalMag. It's too soon to tell how they'll respond to that, but they've responded well to the light and environment changes.

Stoneyluv said:
your last round leaned a bit too right? different light... your first round didn't lean at all? and your seeing some lean now and some not. it almost wants me to look at things other than the light.
Click to expand...
So first two rounds were with the SpiderFarmer SE-5000 which is about half the wattage of the SolarSystem. I'd be around 15% at this stage and would be starting to bump it up 1% per day.

The last round of seeds acted very similar to this round. Weak stems and falling over or just growing weirdly. That was the first round with the new light.

-------

I'm convinced at this point that it was a spectrum and/or leaf temp issue. Not so much the intensity. I need to check the leaf temps in the dome because the one that fell over in the tent has really started to correct itself since being removed. Quite the rebound considering I was sure it was done for.

I think we're one the right track now.
 
Last edited:
GrumpAzz said:
Well I did a few things but it seems to have helped. Everyone looked good before work tonight.

I lowered the speeds on my oscillating fans just in case they were blowing them over.

I put in a spectrum ratio of 4r : 5w : 10b which is basically as low as I can go in intensity while keeping the recommended ratio.

I lowered room temp and brought the leaf temps down to ~76 and dropped the humidity so that the VPD hovers around 1.

Res change this morning to give them a little more silicate and a boost in Nitrogen. They also got a small dose of CalMag. It's too soon to tell how they'll respond to that, but they've responded well to the light and environment changes.


So first two rounds were with the SpiderFarmer SE-5000 which is about half the wattage of the SolarSystem. I'd be around 15% at this stage and would be starting to bump it up 1% per day.

The last round of seeds acted very similar to this round. Weak stems and falling over or just growing weirdly. That was the first round with the new light.

-------

I'm convinced at this point that it was a spectrum and/or leaf temp issue. Not so much the intensity. I need to check the leaf temps in the dome because the one that fell over in the tent has really started to correct itself since being removed. Quite the rebound considering I was sure it was done for.

I think we're one the right track now.
Click to expand...

yeah man, they've definitely grown out of that awkward stage of bobble heading now, so onwards and upwards.. bring on the buds!!

i'm paying more attention to hydro journals right now because i think i wanna dip my toe.. so i'd love it if you would remember these setting you've found to improve them and apply the same settings next round to test it out. i'll be all eyes and ears on that!!
 
Stoneyluv said:
yeah man, they've definitely grown out of that awkward stage of bobble heading now, so onwards and upwards.. bring on the buds!!

i'm paying more attention to hydro journals right now because i think i wanna dip my toe.. so i'd love it if you would remember these setting you've found to improve them and apply the same settings next round to test it out. i'll be all eyes and ears on that!!
Click to expand...
Will do brother. I'm thinking I'll start beans sooner this next time and leave them in the dome longer. I really like how the roots are looking on the plant that came over from the dome. They've all got nice and long roots besides that one, but that one's got probably twice as many.
 
We're back on track, I believe. Everyone seems to be doing fine. I'll keep a close eye on them and when two or more throw 5 blades, I'll give them the recommended Veg spectrum at 10:20:20 and bump it up slowly from there.
 
GrumpAzz said:
Well this guy bounced back pretty quick and the stem doesn't look all wimpy this morning. The other is doing alright too.
View attachment 67412

This one is chugging along and she's the reason they all got a bump up to 230ppm. The roots are comparable on all the plants.
View attachment 67416View attachment 67417
View attachment 67423

And then there's this damn thang. She's trying to earn her spot back in the tent. 3 days ago her top was below the lip of the netpot.
View attachment 67418

Whether it was lowering the intensity or fixing the spectrum, or just lowering the speed on my fans, it seems to have helped.
Click to expand...

Pipe cleaner's are a leggy seedlings best friend. (y)Dark Phoenix V2 (4).JPG
 
Last edited:
GoodShit97 said:
I use the soft green wire or I use those S hooks they send with trellis netting and bend them
Click to expand...

i have too... but man a pipe cleaner is so soft and fuzzy for her tender queen leg!!! :D the kind of pampering she deserves!!!

when i got my 3D printer the very first thing i drew and printed myself was a seedling support!!! :LOL:
 
No pictures but all 4 are doing great, so it seems. I'm seeing 5 blades on all the new nodes so I switched the light to CLW's recommended veg ratios. They're now getting hit with 10r : 20w : 20b.

The leaves have grown quite a bit in size since I last checked leaf temps. Checked this morning and they were 73-75 so I bumped up the tent temps to bring them to 75-77. Things are taking off at this point.
 
i'm running the same spectrum you are right now. i'm at 15-30-30 (just one 550 though)

i have that clone under it i bought last week. that clone is causing me all kinds of problems, i don't know why i bought it. i gotta turn on the light just for that one tiny plant. thats the only reason i want to run the autos in hydro so i can keep a veg schedule to not screw up that clone. i really don't want to grow autos indoors but it's the cards i'm dealt right now. my neighbor grows autos indoors no matter how much i try and persuade him not to.

are you still going to mainline this round? i can't wait to mainline again. i can tell already this noveg will not produce as much, it's not really supposed to but the mainlines really made a nice yield, can't wait to do it again!!
 
Stoneyluv said:
are you still going to mainline this round? i can't wait to mainline again. i can tell already this noveg will not produce as much, it's not really supposed to but the mainlines really made a nice yield, can't wait to do it again!!
Click to expand...
Yessir I plan on it. Most of them have 4 nodes. I'll wait til they have 6 and top at the 4th. I believe that's how @Jonnyboi84 does it.

With the no-veg, can you squeeze an extra grow or 3 into a year? That'd make the lower yields still worth it, right?
 
GrumpAzz said:
Yessir I plan on it. Most of them have 4 nodes. I'll wait til they have 6 and top at the 4th. I believe that's how @Jonnyboi84 does it.

With the no-veg, can you squeeze an extra grow or 3 into a year? That'd make the lower yields still worth it, right?
Click to expand...

yeah i believe he cuts em early at like node five... don't wait to long. i did that my first time because i wanted clones of everything first and when i waited it slowed the mainline action down to a crawl. i realized it's all in the speed, you top early so it focuses all the energy on growing the new legs and gets the side shoots going faster. keeping the legs clean and no unwanted growth along the way was key to perfection. it helps big time to not get lazy in the beginning. i learned that the hard way. you're a meticulous guy that pays attention to details so you'll be good at mainlining.

and yes, that is the only thing that makes noveg attractive, the annual turn around makes for a better yield on the year. but the way i'm doing it once and done just saves me six weeks of power bills and gives me a little smaller yield. but it's no secret that yields aren't what drives me to grow. it's the sticky greasy oily buds that i strive for!!!!!!
 
Stoneyluv said:
you top early so it focuses all the energy on growing the new legs and gets the side shoots going faster. keeping the legs clean and no unwanted growth along the way was key to perfection. it helps big time to not get lazy in the beginning
Click to expand...
Oh sweet. So I'll likely be topping in the next week or so. Maybe I'll do that shortly after another res change and bump up in ppm.

Stoneyluv said:
it's the sticky greasy oily buds that i strive for!!!!!!
Click to expand...
I like your style 😎
 
Just topped the bottom-right plant in the picture above. Only one other is throwing it's 5th node. The other two are working on their 4th nodes.

Should I strip the one I topped or wait a couple days for it to recover? Take everything but the top set of fans?

I'll read through @Jonnyboi84 's thread again. Prolly shoulda done that before snipping anything, but I guess that's just how I roll. Wingin' it.
 
I checked. He topped quite a bit later than I just did. He had 7 or more nodes and chopped at the 3rd or 4th. He also stripped when he topped but he had much bushier looking plants than the ones I'm working with. I think I'll wait for the new tops to come in before stripping the lowers.

Live and learn baby
 
Topped another before I left for work. These guys are growing the fattest fans I've had.

If I can get a day off soon, I'll be giving them a res change and a bump up to 300-350ppm.
 
GrumpAzz said:
Just topped the bottom-right plant in the picture above. Only one other is throwing it's 5th node. The other two are working on their 4th nodes.

Should I strip the one I topped or wait a couple days for it to recover? Take everything but the top set of fans?

I'll read through @Jonnyboi84 's thread again. Prolly shoulda done that before snipping anything, but I guess that's just how I roll. Wingin' it.
Click to expand...
Sorry bud been away I just wait until they have at least 5 nodes and then chop at the 3rd node give it a couple of days recovery time and then strip everything below the third node just leaving the top two nodes. Then just carry on as normal until them 2 nodes has at least 5 nodes and then repeat the process but when it comes to stripping them this time I just remove the second nodes leaving node 1 and 3 in place, so you effectively end up with 4 nodes on either side of the plant that will give you your 8 mains and your plant is mainlined. Now you can carry on repeating the process till you've got 16 or 32 if you like but you'd be vegging forever so I just stick to the eight, hope this helps
 
I'm getting some deep ridges.
Tips are looking kinda sawtoothed as well.
17 days from sprout

20240805_064410.jpg20240805_064240.jpg

Heat stress? Leaf temps are reading between 75.2 and 77.3. Room temps are 81.5-83.3. Humidity 59.8-61.4%

Lights stress? I did recently bump up the lights. 15:30:30.

Mg def? I see a tiny bit of fading going on and they've only had a light dose of CalMag. Should I throw some epsom in there?

Overwater? I'm just playin'.
 
I got nothing on ridges or sawtooths.
Never been that picky or aware at that level.
Hard to see the color fade of Mg def but using just Epsom it is safe to add without much issue.
It is the CA that you don't want to overdue.
 
GrumpAzz said:
I'm getting some deep ridges.
Tips are looking kinda sawtoothed as well.
17 days from sprout

View attachment 67915View attachment 67916

Heat stress? Leaf temps are reading between 75.2 and 77.3. Room temps are 81.5-83.3. Humidity 59.8-61.4%

Lights stress? I did recently bump up the lights. 15:30:30.

Mg def? I see a tiny bit of fading going on and they've only had a light dose of CalMag. Should I throw some epsom in there?

Overwater? I'm just playin'.
Click to expand...
Likely wind related. The edges curl up generally from heat or wind
 
Light possible but for other reasons. That light fading is due to internal pressure of the leaf and some cells breaking.

See the swollen tissue between the veins?

Can drop humidity to 50-55% now, resuce wind a bit if possible.

You should see a degree or 2 drop in leaf temp then. Not from wind but transpiration increase from lower humidity.

Can reduce the light a touch if those don’t help.

Nothing overly concerning though
 
Aqua Man said:
Can drop humidity to 50-55% now, resuce wind a bit if possible.
Click to expand...
I'm doubtful there's too much wind in there. They barely dance at all. Just a tiny little wiggle.

Aqua Man said:
You should see a degree or 2 drop in leaf temp then. Not from wind but transpiration increase from lower humidity.
Click to expand...
Would I also need to bump up the temp to keep the leaf temps in range?
 
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