All things shrooms

[Observer]

You can do it, but there's a price tag associated with it.

Basic equipment:

• pressure cooker/canner: $80
• mason jars: $15

IIRC you already have a SAB, so you have your workspace. This is one of those hobbies where trying to go super budget ends up being way more expensive. With the right, core pieces of equipment, you can do this anywhere, in any conditions.

There's no need to go big or extravagant, unless you know this won't be a passing thing. You got this dude, just go back to the basics. Do some PF Tek runs, get your feet wet, figure out the process, then build from there.

When I started, my SAB was a cardboard box with a Saran wrap top. I blew my eyebrows off by lighting a lighter in it to sterilize a needle with a shit ton of Lysol vapor in it. I used my mom's little 4 quart PC for years to sterilize jars. I got most everything for free from local farms -- grains, horse shit, old containers... And I supported myself through high school and college doing it that way.

All that being said, not having a cheap, small pressure cooker is your Achilles heel right now. Get that and you can do this.

Thanks man appreciate it.

Definitely not gonna give up, no doubt there's some issues to my process/methods, but just was not too sure about my unstable ass environment either

 

[Observer]

@Observer hang in there man. You got a lot of shit going down this month. Maybe a break until you get to the new pad is the right step. Just don’t get discouraged. These guys have been doing this a lot longer with much better gear these days.

You keeping notes on where things start to go wrong and why? I even journal my grow so plan to add mushrooms to it or start a new one. Need to get repeatable steps to known outcomes and expected results.

Looking forward to seeing your first successful grow man.

Me opening the jar that one time with that picture inside it could possibly been enough to fuck it suppose, I think my main culprit was heat making the rice release more water.

Enabling better environment for mold.

Definitely not going to give up or too discouraged, just kinda pissed me off, it was so healthy looking, and now I'm starting to waste spores and not liking that.

I'll make my own shroom tea from my own grown shrooms eventually.

 

[Aqua Man]

Substrate and spawn i think, what do you consider spawn?

Need about 30 min before i can watch it.

 

[Observer]

Valid message

 

[tobh]

Me opening the jar that one time with that picture inside it could possibly been enough to fuck it suppose, I think my main culprit was heat making the rice release more water.

Enabling better environment for mold.

Definitely not going to give up or too discouraged, just kinda pissed me off, it was so healthy looking, and now I'm starting to waste spores and not liking that.

I'll make my own shroom tea from my own grown shrooms eventually.

the problem is mold spores won't magically sprout because of too much water content within the jars. Bacteria will, but not mold, so long the jars have been properly sterilized. Opening jars that aren't fully colonized is a sure fire way to end up with mold, though.

there are ways to sterilize jars without a PC, but it's not as time or energy efficient. basically, you make up your jars, then put them in a pot of water and boil them for 90 minutes. let sit for 24 hours, and repeat the boiling again. You do this three to four times and stand a higher likelihood of having sterile jars.

The basic idea of how this works is ungerminated endospores are incredibly hard to destroy at atmospheric pressure, and consequently, what typical boiling temperatures are. That's why we use pressure cookers to do the sterilization step. By boiling multiple times over the span of multiple days, you allow time for any endospores to germinate, then you kill the young lifeforms before they have a chance to gain momentum and become problematic.

once the jars are sterilized, you just gotta make sure to stick to strict aseptic protocols until colonization is complete, including not opening the jars outside of a sterile environment like a SAB. Even then, I wouldn't recommend opening jars until they're fully colonized as you're just risking contamination after all your hard work to eliminate competition for the mycelium you want to grow.

 

[Observer]

the problem is mold spores won't magically sprout because of too much water content within the jars. Bacteria will, but not mold, so long the jars have been properly sterilized. Opening jars that aren't fully colonized is a sure fire way to end up with mold, though

ty, alot i dont know about this myco world.

there are ways to sterilize jars without a PC, but it's not as time or energy efficient. basically, you make up your jars, then put them in a pot of water and boil them for 90 minutes. let sit for 24 hours, and repeat the boiling again. You do this three to four times and stand a higher likelihood of having sterile jars.

this is what ive been doing, the lazy/broke boy tek

except, only boiled once for 2 hours.

The basic idea of how this works is ungerminated endospores are incredibly hard to destroy at atmospheric pressure, and consequently, what typical boiling temperatures are. That's why we use pressure cookers to do the sterilization step. By boiling multiple times over the span of multiple days, you allow time for any endospores to germinate, then you kill the young lifeforms before they have a chance to gain momentum and become problematic.

the more you know, didnt know this either.
now i do.

knowing the why is super important,(lol, obv) then i can understand it and manipulate it better.

once the jars are sterilized, you just gotta make sure to stick to strict aseptic protocols until colonization is complete, including not opening the jars outside of a sterile environment like a SAB. Even then, I wouldn't recommend opening jars until they're fully colonized as you're just risking contamination after all your hard work to eliminate competition for the mycelium you want to grow.

appreciate all the information tobh, i am very new to this world.

haha.

 

[ninjadip]

Me opening the jar that one time with that picture inside it could possibly been enough to fuck it suppose, I think my main culprit was heat making the rice release more water.

Enabling better environment for mold.

Definitely not going to give up or too discouraged, just kinda pissed me off, it was so healthy looking, and now I'm starting to waste spores and not liking that.

I'll make my own shroom tea from my own grown shrooms eventually.

i look forward to my first flush/harvest too. fucked up my first go-round.
we will both get there i'm sure

def want to make some thc+fungus chocolates when i finally get there

 

[tobh]

knowing the why is super important,(lol, obv) then i can understand it and manipulate it better.

yup, and a lot of this kind of information is buried deep in old forums. I don't really trust many of the youtube resources either because like cannabis, there's a ton of bro science, especially around the active mushrooms. similar to cannabis and agriculture, mycology is the same in that people try to treat psilocybes and similar as some unique snowflakes, when they really aren't. all the same rules and practices apply (for the most part), it's just a different set of genetics than edibles or medicinals.

 

[ninjadip]

yup, and a lot of this kind of information is buried deep in old forums. I don't really trust many of the youtube resources either because like cannabis, there's a ton of bro science, especially around the active mushrooms. similar to cannabis and agriculture, mycology is the same in that people try to treat psilocybes and similar as some unique snowflakes, when they really aren't. all the same rules and practices apply (for the most part), it's just a different set of genetics than edibles or medicinals.

for someone new to this i totally agree. glad we got some experienced people here to help sort out the good practices from the bro shit. some videos make it seem so easy... thanks for helping us out

 

[tobh]

FWIW I went through everything you newbies are going through, too. Lots of lessons learned over the years, and especially those first few grows. Hell, before I got my first mushroom harvest I couldn't even keep a cannabis plant alive, but that changed too once I figured out some of the processes for successfully growing mushrooms.

Y'all will get there, and when you do you'll be so damn proud that you'll gladly forget all of the pain you went through to get that first harvest. I'm here rooting for you, and will try to help out as I can!

 

[Observer]

@Observer hang in there man. You got a lot of shit going down this month. Maybe a break until you get to the new pad is the right step. Just don’t get discouraged. These guys have been doing this a lot longer with much better gear these days.

You keeping notes on where things start to go wrong and why? I even journal my grow so plan to add mushrooms to it or start a new one. Need to get repeatable steps to known outcomes and expected results.

Looking forward to seeing your first successful grow man.

thanks man

 

[tobh]

First up:

• Psilocybe Cubensis Aztec Gold
• Panaeolous Cambodginiesis
• Panealous Cyanescens
• Panaeolous Bisporus
• Psilocybe Cyanescens
• Psilocybe Cubensis Albino Penis Envy Hybrid
• a two decade old portobello print

Kicking shit off real hard on this one boys.

Disregard the parafilm papers on the ground, wrapped up a bunch of plates just before I retrieved the spores from cold storage.

 

[Observer]

First up:

• Psilocybe Cubensis Aztec Gold
• Panaeolous Cambodginiesis
• Panealous Cyanescens
• Panaeolous Bisporus
• Psilocybe Cyanescens
• Psilocybe Cubensis Albino Penis Envy Hybrid
• a two decade old portobello print

Kicking shit off real hard on this one boys.
View attachment 15169
Disregard the parafilm papers on the ground, wrapped up a bunch of plates just before I retrieved the spores from cold storage.

Fuck yea

"So which strain do you want"

"Yes"

I've yet to try cyans.

I'll have to try growing some once I get it down

 

[Observer]

First up:

• Psilocybe Cubensis Aztec Gold
• Panaeolous Cambodginiesis
• Panealous Cyanescens
• Panaeolous Bisporus
• Psilocybe Cyanescens
• Psilocybe Cubensis Albino Penis Envy Hybrid
• a two decade old portobello print

Kicking shit off real hard on this one boys.
View attachment 15169
Disregard the parafilm papers on the ground, wrapped up a bunch of plates just before I retrieved the spores from cold storage.

Some look loaded with spores

Nice

 

[Aqua Man]

Still busy af so gonna need an hour maybe 2 before i look at the video. @tobh answered most of it. Personally i would avoid the perlite for moisture in a tub as a bottom layer…. Just scares me for bacteria purposes. As a fruiting chamber i would fell comfortable using distilled water with some hydrogen peroxide added every few days since the mycelium will never come in contact with it

 

[tobh]

Fuck yea

"So which strain do you want"

"Yes"

I've yet to try cyans.

I'll have to try growing some once I get it down

sporeworks had a hell of a sale when i bought the pan genetics. got the four pack for like $35 or something like that.

the cool thing about the pan bisporus is the origin print is from a small town about 200 miles east of me. AFAIK it was the only culture ever found naturally occurring in the US, as that particular variety is native to SE Asia, Jamaica and Hawaii, yet someone (i used to know who, don't recall their name atm) found a random patch in the middle of a cattle field.

 

[Observer]

sporeworks had a hell of a sale when i bought the pan genetics. got the four pack for like $35 or something like that.

the cool thing about the pan bisporus is the origin print is from a small town about 200 miles east of me. AFAIK it was the only culture ever found naturally occurring in the US, as that particular variety is native to SE Asia, Jamaica and Hawaii, yet someone (i used to know who, don't recall their name atm) found a random patch in the middle of a cattle field.

That's crazy, neat.

Not familiar with the bisporus

 

[MiGrampa]

@Aqua Man or @tobh

My KSSS has been in fruiting conditions for 9 days now. No sign of pinning. My temperatures don't fluctuate much. I've been between 75F and 77F at all times during those 9 days. Is this normal? Am I getting impatient again? LOL .... I have considered adding a casing layer if I don't have pinning by this weekend. Your thoughts?

Here's a picture taken just a few minutes ago ...

 

[tobh]

@Aqua Man or @tobh

My KSSS has been in fruiting conditions for 9 days now. No sign of pinning. My temperatures don't fluctuate much. I've been between 75F and 77F at all times during those 9 days. Is this normal? Am I getting impatient again? LOL .... I have considered adding a casing layer if I don't have pinning by this weekend. Your thoughts?

Here's a picture taken just a few minutes ago ...

View attachment 15183

looks like you're getting into overlay territory. How often are you doing FAE? Since this casing hasn't fruited yet, I'm surprised to see it pulled so far off the sides already. Looking closely I can see some hyphal knots, but something's off so the mycelium isn't bothering to try fruiting.

Once AMan pops back in and gives it his look, there are a few different things you can do to try and motivate the boomers to come up.

 

[MiGrampa]

looks like you're getting into overlay territory. How often are you doing FAE? Since this casing hasn't fruited yet, I'm surprised to see it pulled so far off the sides already. Looking closely I can see some hyphal knots, but something's off so the mycelium isn't bothering to try fruiting.

Once AMan pops back in and gives it his look, there are a few different things you can do to try and motivate the boomers to come up.

My thoughts were the same, but I'm unsure of my next move at this point.

What would you do to encourage fruiting ... adding a coco/vermiculite based casing? Is this even worth attempting? Or is something so "off" its just not going to produce fruit?

Edit: FAE very 3 hrs during the day up to bed time.

 

[tobh]

My thoughts were the same, but I'm unsure of my next move at this point.

What would you do to encourage fruiting ... adding a coco/vermiculite based casing? Is this even worth attempting? Or is something so "off" its just not going to produce fruit?

Edit: FAE very 3 hrs during the day up to bed time.

alright, how dense is the polyfill in the holes?

In order to correct the problem, gotta understand the root causes. IME overlay happens most often in one of two scenarios: CO2 evacuation isn't happening often or effective enough, or humidity is remaining too high. It can also be caused by too low of humidity, but that's less common. With how shrunk your casing is, I wonder if that's what's going on, though.

Now, to overcome overlay. The simplest way IME is to score the top of the casing with a fork, then put a casing layer on it. Keep the casing in fruiting conditions, and see if it'll recover. If after seven days, still no pins, cold shock the bitch.

KSSS never required a cold shock when I was growing it, but maybe you pulled the luck of the draw from the batch of spores you started with.

Just to confirm, though, remind me how this grow was started? Multispore to initial spawn, or liquid culture? I seriously doubt another scenario is what's happening here, but gotta ask just in case.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah try to drop to about 70f. lol oks like its an FAE issue to me. I see the droplets and it’s definitely hydrophobic. Try leaving the lid cracked a bit and fan for about 2-3 min if possible a few times a day.

There is variations of every genetic so can’t rule out this one is a picky fruiter.

Like @tobh i see knots so my best guess would be FAE

 

[Aqua Man]

Substrate and spawn i think, what do you consider spawn?

Yep that will work… just make sure you put the tinfoil between it.

 

[Observer]

My thoughts were the same, but I'm unsure of my next move at this point.

What would you do to encourage fruiting ... adding a coco/vermiculite based casing? Is this even worth attempting? Or is something so "off" its just not going to produce fruit?

Edit: FAE very 3 hrs during the day up to bed time.

More FAE, I think would help.

Pins start to grow as the top condensate layer evaporates

As I've read.

 

[MiGrampa]

Yeah try to drop to about 70f. lol oks like its an FAE issue to me. I see the droplets and it’s definitely hydrophobic. Try leaving the lid cracked a bit and fan for about 2-3 min if possible a few times a day.

There is variations of every genetic so can’t rule out this one is a picky fruiter.

Like @tobh i see knots so my best guess would be FAE

That one is easy enough. I can remove the polyfil and put actual monotub filters in its place. That should allow better natural air exchange. I'll tell my wife to leave the lid off after fanning for up to five minutes each time she does it during the day. If nothing happens by the weekend, I'll drag a sterilized fork through the top surface and then case it with the coco/vermiculite casing I made ( pressure sterilized for 2 hrs).

Edit: KSSS came as a liquid culture.

 

[MiGrampa]

Pollyfill is out and monotub filters are in its place. Lowering temp any lower could be hard to do unless I place the tub directly on the concrete floor.

What exactly is "cold shocking" and what is the correct procedure?

 

[Aqua Man]

Pollyfill is out and monotub filters are in its place. Lowering temp any lower could be hard to do unless I place the tub directly on the concrete floor.

What exactly is "cold shocking" and what is the correct procedure?

Never done it or had to but i have heard sometimes its needed. @tobh will know more about this than myself

 

[MiGrampa]

Never done it or had to but i have heard sometimes its needed. @tobh will know more about this than myself

I made my first adjustment with the monotub filters. I'll give that a few days to make a difference.

My wife says she can leave the lid off of it when she fans for a couple minutes longer.

I took the temperature of the floor using an infrared thermometer. My basement floor is 73f. If I have to, I can get the substrate temperature down just a bit more by putting it on the floor.

 

[tobh]

What exactly is "cold shocking" and what is the correct procedure?

Put the thing in the fridge for a few hours. It's supposed to simulate the cold snap of late fall/early winter. The science regarding whether a cold shock is necessary is considered more old-school bro science now, but when I started 20 years ago, it was still a practice thought to be required.

Edit: KSSS came as a liquid culture.

Hmmm... and that's where the scenario I'm hoping isn't the case for you is rooted. Depending on whether the culture they used to create the LC was from a fruit body or an isolation from a multi-spore culture could be the difference between you getting any fruits or just grow a brick of mycelium.

This is the struggle with agar work -- you start from MS on agar so you can be sure you're working with a clean culture but you have to fruit that culture and clone from a fruit body to ensure you have a fruiting isolation.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah unlikely if they are from a decent source but these days you never inow.

Id put it on the floor to drop those temps hit it with a tad more light if you can and increase the FAE. HmThats the three things that usually help initiate fruiting…. Sometimes the genetic will be like this where it needs to colonize heavily before it will fruit.

 

[MiGrampa]

Put the thing in the fridge for a few hours. It's supposed to simulate the cold snap of late fall/early winter. The science regarding whether a cold shock is necessary is considered more old-school bro science now, but when I started 20 years ago, it was still a practice thought to be required.

Hmmm... and that's where the scenario I'm hoping isn't the case for you is rooted. Depending on whether the culture they used to create the LC was from a fruit body or an isolation from a multi-spore culture could be the difference between you getting any fruits or just grow a brick of mycelium.

This is the struggle with agar work -- you start from MS on agar so you can be sure you're working with a clean culture but you have to fruit that culture and clone from a fruit body to ensure you have a fruiting isolation.

I don't know about the culture and how it was made. It sounds like you personally would work with spore syringes over agar colonized mycelium considering the source of the spores is always from a fruiting body?

I get what you're saying about the source of the clone. I see where that can make all the difference in the world.

Edit: I hope my rambling is making sense lol.

 

[Aqua Man]

I don't know about the culture and how it was made. It sounds like you personally would work with spore syringes over agar colonized mycelium considering the source of the spores is always from a fruiting body?

I get what you're saying about the source of the clone. I see where that can make all the difference in the world.

Edit: I hope my rambling is making sense lol.

If its from a clone your good… if its from soore and they only tested the mycelium then it’s possible it may not fruit no matter what you do

 

[Observer]

Put the thing in the fridge for a few hours. It's supposed to simulate the cold snap of late fall/early winter. The science regarding whether a cold shock is necessary is considered more old-school bro science now, but when I started 20 years ago, it was still a practice thought to be required.

Hmmm... and that's where the scenario I'm hoping isn't the case for you is rooted. Depending on whether the culture they used to create the LC was from a fruit body or an isolation from a multi-spore culture could be the difference between you getting any fruits or just grow a brick of mycelium.

This is the struggle with agar work -- you start from MS on agar so you can be sure you're working with a clean culture but you have to fruit that culture and clone from a fruit body to ensure you have a fruiting isolation.

ahh

stratification?

 

[MiGrampa]

Yeah unlikely if they are from a decent source but these days you never inow.

Id put it on the floor to drop those temps hit it with a tad more light if you can and increase the FAE. HmThats the three things that usually help initiate fruiting…. Sometimes the genetic will be like this where it needs to colonize heavily before it will fruit.

I can put the tub on the floor with the light directly above the tub by about 6.5 feet.

If its from a clone your good… if its from soore and they only tested the mycelium then it’s possible it may not fruit no matter what you do

I'll keep trying until the Pans Cyans are ready to fruit. Those are still in spawn bags and will likely remain there for at least another week.

 

[Observer]

the problem is mold spores won't magically sprout because of too much water content within the jars. Bacteria will, but not mold, so long the jars have been properly sterilized. Opening jars that aren't fully colonized is a sure fire way to end up with mold, though.

there are ways to sterilize jars without a PC, but it's not as time or energy efficient. basically, you make up your jars, then put them in a pot of water and boil them for 90 minutes. let sit for 24 hours, and repeat the boiling again. You do this three to four times and stand a higher likelihood of having sterile jars.

The basic idea of how this works is ungerminated endospores are incredibly hard to destroy at atmospheric pressure, and consequently, what typical boiling temperatures are. That's why we use pressure cookers to do the sterilization step. By boiling multiple times over the span of multiple days, you allow time for any endospores to germinate, then you kill the young lifeforms before they have a chance to gain momentum and become problematic.

once the jars are sterilized, you just gotta make sure to stick to strict aseptic protocols until colonization is complete, including not opening the jars outside of a sterile environment like a SAB. Even then, I wouldn't recommend opening jars until they're fully colonized as you're just risking contamination after all your hard work to eliminate competition for the mycelium you want to grow.

ok again, thanks for sharing the knowledge.

i just lack understanding of the Myco world.

and by mold, i mean Green. lol.

so im probably wrong about that too.

 

[tobh]

I don't know about the culture and how it was made. It sounds like you personally would work with spore syringes over agar colonized mycelium considering the source of the spores is always from a fruiting body?

I get what you're saying about the source of the clone. I see where that can make all the difference in the world.

Edit: I hope my rambling is making sense lol.

yeah, i gotcha.

So, I have always started from spore. I used to inoculate grain directly with spore syringes, accepting the inherent risk of contamination. spore syringes simply can't be trusted to be clean as the very act of taking a spore print exposes the collection media directly to contamination on the cap of the mushroom. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails spectacularly.

Now, my agar process is pretty straight forward:

• Clean a shot glass real good with 70% ISO and set to the side
• Using a propane torch, heat up my inoculation loop till red hot and set to the side
• Squirt ~0.5cc or less of thoroughly beat/mixed spore solution into the shot glass
• Stir the spore solution with the inoculation loop
• Streak an agar plate with the inoculation loop following industry standard four-quadrant streaking procedures

Once germination happens, I try to do the first transfers to new agar plates ASAP. This ensures that any contamination doesn't get carried over to subsequent generations of plates, and still retain the vigor of being so close to spore germination.. Ideally one should be able to go to LC or grain by the second or third transfer.

If by T3 you still have contams, you start over from spore.

 

[Aqua Man]

ok again, thanks for sharing the knowledge.

i just lack understanding of the Myco world.

So does everyone who hasn’t learned bro… your a quick learner and im sure once you get some time and a PC you will blow it out of the water

 

[tobh]

ahh

stratification?

kind of. Typically stratification takes a period of weeks to months, whereas in this instance it takes only a few hours to overnight. A lot of new research says it's not even required, that cubensis doesn't experience any hormonal shifts or have any other indicators of requiring that trigger unlike some edible and medicinal varieties.

 

[Zen_seeker]

FWIW I went through everything you newbies are going through, too. Lots of lessons learned over the years, and especially those first few grows. Hell, before I got my first mushroom harvest I couldn't even keep a cannabis plant alive, but that changed too once I figured out some of the processes for successfully growing mushrooms.

Y'all will get there, and when you do you'll be so damn proud that you'll gladly forget all of the pain you went through to get that first harvest. I'm here rooting for you, and will try to help out as I can!

Thanks man. Everyone in this thread is very supportive. Makes giving it a try that much easier. No haters or asshats.

 

[tobh]

Knocked up plates

I couldn't remember today's date before taking the picture, so.... yeah. there's that.