All things shrooms

[tobh]

Hell yeah man. Optimizing for production quantity and velocity is the way. That was my buddy's biggest issue last year. The time constraints to produce enough materials to fruit enough volume to supply his demand were very real. Trying to figure out all that stuff myself now as well so that I don't run into his same issues.

Locally there is at least one other mushroom producer I'll be competing against at the farmer's market, so I'm aiming to offer more exotic varieties as well as take home fruiting kits. Might even go as far as trying to sell liquid cultures and agar cultures for the more DIY crowd.

 

[Aqua Man]

Hell yeah man. Optimizing for production quantity and velocity is the way. That was my buddy's biggest issue last year. The time constraints to produce enough materials to fruit enough volume to supply his demand were very real. Trying to figure out all that stuff myself now as well so that I don't run into his same issues.

Locally there is at least one other mushroom producer I'll be competing against at the farmer's market, so I'm aiming to offer more exotic varieties as well as take home fruiting kits. Might even go as far as trying to sell liquid cultures and agar cultures for the more DIY crowd.

I am wishing you all the success brother. You deserve it and knowing that your not the average bear i am certain its only a matter of time

 

[tobh]

I am wishing you all the success brother. You deserve it and knowing that your not the average bear i am certain its only a matter of time

Appreciate it man. In this day and age, everyone has to start figuring out ways to diversify their income streams. The days of security in one's job are long gone, and better to have multiple baskets for your eggs rather than all your eggs in one basket. Growing mushrooms is arguably one of the simplest things to do, and can get relatively passive once the processes are optimized. Then it's just a matter of sourcing materials as cheaply as possible as to maximize profits while minimizing losses.

One of my favorite things about boutique mushroom farms is they can be insanely lucrative in comparison to commercial scale operations. For instance, portobello and crimini farmers operate on razor thin profit margins because of their scale. Keeping things small, while focusing on uncommon varieties, can yield a huge advantage, so long you're not in Pennsylvania where the mushroom mob will wreck your shit by eating at their profits lol

 

[tobh]

So, poll without doing a poll. Do y'all have any interest, or think, I should get a fresh culture of APE going?

Will be spawning a tray of Jedi Mind Fuck and a tray of Pink Buffalo on Friday. Also have PESA and A+ transfers that are probably a week or two out from being ready to go to grain (so long the transfers are clean), and have three varieties of pan cyan transferred that are also about a week out from going to grain. So that make four cube varieties, three pan cyans. The cube varieties will run fairly quick, and maybe by the time they're nearing their end, I might be able to have some APE ready to rock.

What y'all think? Not really looking at the APE as anything more than I am the pans -- it's a novelty, can say "been there, done that" type thing. Just not sure if it's worth throwing another one in the mix on top of the gourmet cultures that I'll need space for as well once the cubes are wrapping up.

 

[Aqua Man]

So, poll without doing a poll. Do y'all have any interest, or think, I should get a fresh culture of APE going?

Will be spawning a tray of Jedi Mind Fuck and a tray of Pink Buffalo on Friday. Also have PESA and A+ transfers that are probably a week or two out from being ready to go to grain (so long the transfers are clean), and have three varieties of pan cyan transferred that are also about a week out from going to grain. So that make four cube varieties, three pan cyans. The cube varieties will run fairly quick, and maybe by the time they're nearing their end, I might be able to have some APE ready to rock.

What y'all think? Not really looking at the APE as anything more than I am the pans -- it's a novelty, can say "been there, done that" type thing. Just not sure if it's worth throwing another one in the mix on top of the gourmet cultures that I'll need space for as well once the cubes are wrapping up.

I mean any experience is a benefit brother. If you have the time and desire i would go for it

 

[tobh]

I mean any experience is a benefit brother. If you have the time and desire i would go for it

kinda debating getting ballsy and just going MSS straight to grain. Working with it on agar was so painfully slow and I'm 99.5% positive the syringe is clean (never any contamination on any of the plates I made) so worst case losing one bag of grain and 1cc of spore solution really isn't that terrible for giving it a shot. Maybe it'll colonize faster directly on grain too haha

 

[tobh]

well, shit. didn't think about this till just now. i need to figure out how to heat up the martha tent for the pans. without having the grow tent going full bore temps in the garage average 65F. gotta bump those up about 20 degrees, at least around the martha. this is gonna get tricky.

 

[Aqua Man]

kinda debating getting ballsy and just going MSS straight to grain. Working with it on agar was so painfully slow and I'm 99.5% positive the syringe is clean (never any contamination on any of the plates I made) so worst case losing one bag of grain and 1cc of spore solution really isn't that terrible for giving it a shot. Maybe it'll colonize faster directly on grain too haha

Risk reward brother… personally i been stung enough to give up time for some extra assurance lol

 

[Aqua Man]

well, shit. didn't think about this till just now. i need to figure out how to heat up the martha tent for the pans. without having the grow tent going full bore temps in the garage average 65F. gotta bump those up about 20 degrees, at least around the martha. this is gonna get tricky.

Rigid foam around it?

 

[tobh]

Rigid foam around it?

if i were to go that route, i'd just convert it to a room tbh. that's on the long term plans for the property but for now, just need to figure out a solution. might rig up a solution out of HVAC metal and a space heater. biggest concern is whatever it is has got to be fireproof.

 

[tobh]

Risk reward brother… personally i been stung enough to give up time for some extra assurance lol

yeah, it's been years since i did things "wrong." and i have enough assurance the syringe is clean, soooo... i think imma go unprotected lol

 

[Aqua Man]

yeah, it's been years since i did things "wrong." and i have enough assurance the syringe is clean, soooo... i think imma go unprotected lol

Balls deep brother

 

[tobh]

Balls deep brother

What spawn ratio are you using these days?

Debating propagating out the two spawn bags I have to another four bags (one bag to two bags each) but I don't really think I'll need that much for the 12qt tubs I'll be fruiting in. My thinking is 1000g spawn to approx. 11L (not sure what the weight is gonna come out to, doing CVG + manure this round) of substrate should be enough but also don't want to be waiting excessively long for the substrate to colonize.

 

[Aqua Man]

What spawn ratio are you using these days?

Debating propagating out the two spawn bags I have to another four bags (one bag to two bags each) but I don't really think I'll need that much for the 12qt tubs I'll be fruiting in. My thinking is 1000g spawn to approx. 11L (not sure what the weight is gonna come out to, doing CVG + manure this round) of substrate should be enough but also don't want to be waiting excessively long for the substrate to colonize.

With the PE i was doing 1:1 ratio to speed up colonization to try and prevent contamination.

With these B+ and Amazon im dropping to 2:1 and likely will end up 4:1 by the looks of things.

 

[tobh]

With the PE i was doing 1:1 ratio to speed up colonization to try and prevent contamination.

With these B+ and Amazon im dropping to 2:1 and likely will end up 4:1 by the looks of things.

makes sense. guess i might make up some substrate and weigh it out. right now i just don't have the visual or the numbers to determine an adequate ratio. I think the pink buffalo can likely do with a bit less spawn:substrate because of how aggressive it's colonizing the grains but the JMF is a tad bit slower.

If it weren't for the manure I plan on adding to the CVG, I wouldn't be too concerned about contamination but adding the manure raises the possibility of contam a bit.

 

[Aqua Man]

makes sense. guess i might make up some substrate and weigh it out. right now i just don't have the visual or the numbers to determine an adequate ratio. I think the pink buffalo can likely do with a bit less spawn:substrate because of how aggressive it's colonizing the grains but the JMF is a tad bit slower.

If it weren't for the manure I plan on adding to the CVG, I wouldn't be too concerned about contamination but adding the manure raises the possibility of contam a bit.

There are substrate calculators online but I don’t use them. Easy use but im not sure how accurate they are

 

[tobh]

There are substrate calculators online but I don’t use them. Easy use but im not sure how accurate they are

yeah, i rather do the math myself. there are too many variables unique to each person's methods/space that those calculators might be worth getting a rough idea if, say, one is in the stage of purchasing materials (kinda like calculating bulk soil volumes).

guess i'll just make up some CVG this afternoon, weigh a loaded tub, and do the needed division from that number. kinda shooting in the dark right now and i don't like it lol. getting eager to get the martha firing on all cylinders and want to make sure i'm ahead of the ball in terms of having enough grain prepped ahead of time to keep a constant stream of spawn in rotation. probably should just start making it a habit of making up 10 bags of grain every other day, run the PC while I'm working, and use the afternoons for other activities (specifically lab work and starting the next grain batch).

Also trying to get coordinated with the the person I found that has composted horse manure so I can go get a truckload of it this weekend, and will be picking up probably six or eight bales of straw at the same time. Thinking for the oysters i'll be making up straw logs using leech line liners (it's like a polyester sock material) and straw. for the lion's mane, will do master's mix directly in bags. The pink oysters like the same conditions as the pan cyans, so hopefully both will prove successful ventures.

My buddy gave up on the pink oysters because he couldn't keep his temps up in the mid 80s like they prefer, and that's the same issue I'll be running into. Even on the hottest days the garage barely breaks 70F, and averages 65F. Gonna be a challenge getting that rectified.

 

[Aqua Man]

yeah, i rather do the math myself. there are too many variables unique to each person's methods/space that those calculators might be worth getting a rough idea if, say, one is in the stage of purchasing materials (kinda like calculating bulk soil volumes).

guess i'll just make up some CVG this afternoon, weigh a loaded tub, and do the needed division from that number. kinda shooting in the dark right now and i don't like it lol. getting eager to get the martha firing on all cylinders and want to make sure i'm ahead of the ball in terms of having enough grain prepped ahead of time to keep a constant stream of spawn in rotation. probably should just start making it a habit of making up 10 bags of grain every other day, run the PC while I'm working, and use the afternoons for other activities (specifically lab work and starting the next grain batch).

Also trying to get coordinated with the the person I found that has composted horse manure so I can go get a truckload of it this weekend, and will be picking up probably six or eight bales of straw at the same time. Thinking for the oysters i'll be making up straw logs using leech line liners (it's like a polyester sock material) and straw. for the lion's mane, will do master's mix directly in bags. The pink oysters like the same conditions as the pan cyans, so hopefully both will prove successful ventures.

My buddy gave up on the pink oysters because he couldn't keep his temps up in the mid 80s like they prefer, and that's the same issue I'll be running into. Even on the hottest days the garage barely breaks 70F, and averages 65F. Gonna be a challenge getting that rectified.

Horse manure is the manure you definitely want to use for pans. You are a genius level guy imo and always manage to think out the potential problems to eliminate them before having to learn from them. I mean we all have to learn the hard way sometimes but foresight is not a common trait.

You got this shit no matter if a few hiccups along the way. And tou will get there fast brother

 

[tobh]

Horse manure is the manure you definitely want to use for pans. You are a genius level guy imo and always manage to think out the potential problems to eliminate them before having to learn from them. I mean we all have to learn the hard way sometimes but foresight is not a common trait.

You got this shit no matter if a few hiccups along the way. And tou will get there fast brother

Appreciate it man. Historically i ran only horse manure (buddy's parents were equestrians, could get 50 gallon totes of the shit at any time), and had great success back then. The last cube grow i did a couple years back i used CVG, and it was alright but was just dipping my toes back into it then. Now i'm sunk too deep into equipment and whatnot to not think shit through before i get too far ahead lol next major purchase is gonna be a 44qt all american electric autoclave so I double the amount of grain prep while also setting it and forgetting it for the sterilization cycles. plus, won't have to sit outside, babysitting the turkey fryer burner.

i'll be messing around with different mixtures for the substrate. CVG+manure, CVG+manure+straw, straw+manure, straw+manure+vermiculite, etc. until I find what works most economically with the quickest turn around times coupled with the lifetime of production. This evening's test will get a ballpark weight that I can use as reference, and plan based off of for this weekend's activities.

The manure based substrates will translate well to many other gourmet and medicinal varieties, but I also don't want to be burning through substrate if I can get three solid flushes off one casing vs two solid flushes before tossing the spent casings into the compost heap. That's primarily why I'll be mixing it with the CVG as there are a handful of threads on Shroomery discussing how it can extend the viability of a casing quite a bit while reducing the contamination that spent coco is susceptible to after a couple flushes. It also helps maximize fruit body sizes, and encourages denser clustering (makes sense, coco is limited in the nutrient department).

 

[Aqua Man]

Appreciate it man. Historically i ran only horse manure (buddy's parents were equestrians, could get 50 gallon totes of the shit at any time), and had great success back then. The last cube grow i did a couple years back i used CVG, and it was alright but was just dipping my toes back into it then. Now i'm sunk too deep into equipment and whatnot to not think shit through before i get too far ahead lol next major purchase is gonna be a 44qt all american electric autoclave so I double the amount of grain prep while also setting it and forgetting it for the sterilization cycles. plus, won't have to sit outside, babysitting the turkey fryer burner.

i'll be messing around with different mixtures for the substrate. CVG+manure, CVG+manure+straw, straw+manure, straw+manure+vermiculite, etc. until I find what works most economically with the quickest turn around times coupled with the lifetime of production. This evening's test will get a ballpark weight that I can use as reference, and plan based off of for this weekend's activities.

The manure based substrates will translate well to many other gourmet and medicinal varieties, but I also don't want to be burning through substrate if I can get three solid flushes off one casing vs two solid flushes before tossing the spent casings into the compost heap. That's primarily why I'll be mixing it with the CVG as there are a handful of threads on Shroomery discussing how it can extend the viability of a casing quite a bit while reducing the contamination that spent coco is susceptible to after a couple flushes. It also helps maximize fruit body sizes, and encourages denser clustering (makes sense, coco is limited in the nutrient department).

Straw is a wonderful thing. Just hard to pasteurize

 

[tobh]

I'm dumb. Weights mean nothing in this instance, volume does. Containers are 11.4L, so ideally would use 5.7L of spawn for a 2:1 ratio. I think I'll use 3.9L (two bags of spawn), which will net about a 3:1 ratio. Looks like it'll be another week before tray spawning happens, which is fine because that gives time to build up the prepped spawn coffers.

Er, correction. Weights do matter when it comes to final yields. Knowing weights of everything before and after will help translate to cost of production, per round. Also will help determine volumetric efficiency #s, so will be able to fine tune all the things to a ridiculous level.

 

[tobh]

I'm dumb. Weights mean nothing in this instance, volume does. Containers are 11.4L, so ideally would use 5.7L of spawn for a 2:1 ratio. I think I'll use 3.9L (two bags of spawn), which will net about a 3:1 ratio. Looks like it'll be another week before tray spawning happens, which is fine because that gives time to build up the prepped spawn coffers.

Er, correction. Weights do matter when it comes to final yields. Knowing weights of everything before and after will help translate to cost of production, per round. Also will help determine volumetric efficiency #s, so will be able to fine tune all the things to a ridiculous level.

Came to this conclusion after mixing up the first batch of CVG. Realized that 1kg spawn to 4.7kg substrate was NOT a good ratio, and in no way was representative of how things are done lol so, without the manure, one brick of coco, two quarts of vermiculite, and one cup of gypsum nearly fills the tote. Once I have the manure, I'll do equal parts manure and coco, keep the other stuff the same, and that should be approximately enough substrate to fill two totes when accounting for the volume the spawn will take up. Maybe. We'll all find out together

 

[Aqua Man]

Came to this conclusion after mixing up the first batch of CVG. Realized that 1kg spawn to 4.7kg substrate was NOT a good ratio, and in no way was representative of how things are done lol so, without the manure, one brick of coco, two quarts of vermiculite, and one cup of gypsum nearly fills the tote. Once I have the manure, I'll do equal parts manure and coco, keep the other stuff the same, and that should be approximately enough substrate to fill two totes when accounting for the volume the spawn will take up. Maybe. We'll all find out together

I use volume instead of weight for sub/spawn. I use weights/volume for sub mixture. Eg 200g dry coco, 5 cups water and 1 qt. Verm.

I think it just boils down to what works so you can repeat it

 

[tobh]

For sure. The weight conversion is important in some aspects because most of the materials are sold by weight, but we use them by volume, so knowing what components make up what % of the overall weight correlates directly to cost of production (ie, the P&L of the operation).

 

[Aqua Man]

For sure. The weight conversion is important in some aspects because most of the materials are sold by weight, but we use them by volume, so knowing what components make up what % of the overall weight correlates directly to cost of production (ie, the P&L of the operation).

Yeah to make my sub i se more weights but to mix the sib spawn its 100% by volume. It confuses people but makes sense to me.

I may even switch to weight for water and verm for more accuracy but so far i have no problem replicating it.

 

[tobh]

Yeah to make my sub i se more weights but to mix the sib spawn its 100% by volume. It confuses people but makes sense to me.

I may even switch to weight for water and verm for more accuracy but so far i have no problem replicating it.

That's actually what I've been doing this round. Weighing everything dry, then wet. Am determining volumes now. Just writing all the numbers down for now, too. Will revisit and determine granular costs, excluding time and fuel, later. That actually raises a whole other problem, too. I need to figure out how to meter the use of the propane, otherwise that's an expense that's not being accounted for and could swell into a fairly impactful number. Likely should start measuring the electricity consumption of the flow hood too, and the gallons of water used.

I'm not sure how impactful all of those extra resource #s will be overall but probably worth at least tracking em initially. At the current scale, the costs are likely around $100/year, but really don't know atm.

 

[Aqua Man]

That's actually what I've been doing this round. Weighing everything dry, then wet. Am determining volumes now. Just writing all the numbers down for now, too. Will revisit and determine granular costs, excluding time and fuel, later. That actually raises a whole other problem, too. I need to figure out how to meter the use of the propane, otherwise that's an expense that's not being accounted for and could swell into a fairly impactful number. Likely should start measuring the electricity consumption of the flow hood too, and the gallons of water used.

I'm not sure how impactful all of those extra resource #s will be overall but probably worth at least tracking em initially. At the current scale, the costs are likely around $100/year, but really don't know atm.

Yup i have been monitoring the same factors Is cost me about $5 to produce 1/4lb excluding electricity for pressure cooking and room light (which is almost nothing) but im sure the 3-6 hrs of pressure cooking on the stove add up to a bit.

The key is buy in bulk and it cut costs more than anything

 

[tobh]

Yup i have been monitoring the same factors Is cost me about $5 to produce 1/4lb excluding electricity for pressure cooking and room light (which is almost nothing) but im sure the 3-6 hrs of pressure cooking on the stove add up to a bit.

The key is buy in bulk and it cut costs more than anything

For sure. That's how I ended up with 150lbs of rye grain lol getting the manure for free (gotta rent a pickup, so $20 + mileage + time), the straw bales are like $6/bale. Ordered 10 bricks of coco for like $18? I think? Cheapest I've found ever, either way.

Tracking all the other expendables is gonna be trickier. BUT I have one of those little kilawatt meters, I can plug it in and track the martha for say, a day. Do the same for the flow hood. Then it's just a matter of multiplying over n days. The propane will be a bit trickier unless I just use the same tank and account for how many hours it takes to burn through a full tank, which will be a bit more difficult just because of the different amounts of time all the sterilizing takes (agar and grains). would be cool to find a meter that would go inline and track how many lbs or whatever is used over a given period, like an odometer.

just brain dumping here. probably should be writing this shit in my notes instead lol

 

[tobh]

 

[Aqua Man]

Watching now

 

[tobh]

this cat is a huge inspiration to me. came from a similar area as myself, operates in one of my favorite cities in the country. and he's damn good at it. built his business on cordyceps starting as a teenager.

 

[Aqua Man]

this cat is a huge inspiration to me. came from a similar area as myself, operates in one of my favorite cities in the country. and he's damn good at it. built his business on cordyceps starting as a teenager.

Cordyceps? I think that’s a species that has a subspecies that can basically mind control ants no?

 

[tobh]

Cordyceps? I think that’s a species that has a subspecies that can basically mind control ants no?

in nature it infects various insects and attacks their nervous systems, yes. it's proven to have some pretty significant medicinal benefits in humans, though. there are two major cultivars available in culture form now, and they're highly lucrative for those that have facilities to cultivate them. eg, sterile workspaces using aseptic techniques and hyper clean fruiting conditions.

After I wrap up the pan cyans, cordyceps is my next deep dive. It's the next progression in finding the more complicated shit to work on, ya know. Like growing weed. Started with dirt, moved to coco, to DWC, to RW, soon to be RDWC, then maybe aero. Think I'll stop at RDWC. Undercurrent is just sexy. It's about finding those limits, though, ya know? Find the limit, and anything before it is easier because you have the experience to avoid the major pitfalls.

 

[tobh]

will snag some pics, but finally got the starting bags propagated out to two additional bags. looking at roughly 3lbs of spawn per bag, which should make for pretty solid spawn to substrate ratios in probably another week. the amount of heat the master bags were generating was something to behold. The JMF was also starting to knot up, so barely caught it in time for the transfers. The pink buffalo is moving a little slower.

didn't end up getting the horse manure this weekend, which sucks, but i did pick up straw so i'll be using it in place of the manure in the CVG blend. i'll probably do a 1:2 ratio of straw to coir given the volume straw adds vs manure which the plan was to do 1:1 manure to coir.

also will be starting a master bag for the pink oysters this evening. the agar plate is fully colonized, and i don't want to let it go to waste. i need to get a new culture going of those as the current one is several transfer generations deep at this point, so need a fruit body to clone from ASAP.

the APE bag hasn't germinated at all so knocked up some agar plates. also need to do some additional transfers of some of the other swabs i made. lots of lab work coming in the next couple days. in other words, it's about to get real exciting up in this joint.

 

[tobh]

Pics, as promised. The little guy on the end is the pink oyster bag that I dumped the entire agar plate into. Each spawn bag less the oyster bag is just shy of three lbs.

Need to finish up some shelving I built this past weekend specifically to store these bags in a better spot. Over the next month there's probably gonna the up being 10x this amount that needs stored/organized.

 

[tobh]

Gonna run another experiment too. I'm building some compost heaps around the property. Think I'm gonna dump liquid cultures I won't run in full on those heaps. Cubensis is a beast and will grow on just about anything, so... When in Rome

 

[tobh]

That JMF doesn't screw around, man. It's already recovered and has colonized ~50% of the new grain. The pink buffalo is lagging a little, but I'm sure once it recovers from the abuse it'll take off too. So maybe by midweek next week, i'll be able to get stuff spawned.

 

[Aqua Man]

Hmmm got me thinking a bit about gourmet's

 

[tobh]

Quick lab session today. Transferring two T1 transfers is PESA, one of A+, and cleaning up the first contaminated plate I've had since I built the flow hood. Need to learn more about bacteria because I'm curious what the pink stuff is, if it's a yeast or something else.

 

[SpectrumFarms]

Update on the Drippy Popcorn Tek. Seems to work out pretty well so far, this was inoculated 10 days ago with 1/4 of an agar dish. This a test batch of Melmac Revert, I did notice over the days it does seem to start tiny inoculation points all over the medium much faster. I started to notice on day 3. Couple more days to full send.