Newbie learning how to hydro

[smoke]

I always say smoke grows on farts and giggles and a splash of cal mag.

^^^ well that there is true

 

[Bushman]

Done with diluting, my ppm is now 345.
Now lets observe.

What about running peroxide or bleach in the system. How would you use it for protection? Also in case of pythium, how would you run it to clean the roots?

Thanks

 

[smoke]

What about running peroxide or bleach in the system. How would you use it for protection? Also in case of pythium, how would you run it to clean the roots?

I'll let someone else comment on that because i don't run live nor do i run sterile

 

[moe.red]

Done with diluting, my ppm is now 345.
Now lets observe.

What about running peroxide or bleach in the system. How would you use it for protection? Also in case of pythium, how would you run it to clean the roots?

Thanks

3 options.

Live using beneficial microbes and or fungi
Sterile using caustics like h2o2 or chlorine
Nothing just wing it.

Smoke is the only one I know who purposefully does the 3rd with consistent good results. But he is a master grower with everything dialed in.

I have traditionally done live. I started with sterile and moved to live as I got better. This grow I’m doing neither just for giggles but have peroxide on the shelf just in case.

Between peroxide and bleach my preference is peroxide because as it breaks down it adds o2 in the root zone. 1 dose per week getting to 10ppm is a good preventative dose. How much that is in your system depends on the water volume and the % peroxide you are using. In the states 3, 12, and 30% are common concentrations. I think I’ve seen 20% in Europe.

Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2 Test Strips, Low Level, 0-100 ppm [Vial of 100 Strips] https://a.co/d/hzoHwB0

If you can find these it makes it pretty easy.

If you need to treat root rot 25 ppm every 3 days for 2 weeks then back down to the 10ppm per week to keep it gone.

 

[moe.red]

Aw shit fire alarm at Newark airport. Hope I make it home tonight

View attachment IMG_3545.mov

 

[moe.red]

Greetings sirs!!

It's my first post here, so hi everybody

I've been trying to hydro for last couple of months, fortunately with no luck, and still trying to figure how to work with rdwc correctly.

What you watching here is my current try, and its going far better than all my previous ones.


My rdwc system is diy, the nutes i using are terra aquatica tri part. Plants are at day 5 in their hydro buckets, previously, those net pots were submerged in a little water with root stimulator until i saw those roots coming out, transplanted right after. Atm i following 'grow' schedule. Also im using TA pro roots stimulator as mentioned in TA schedule. Water im using is RO. Ph around 6.0 and . Water temperature around 20. Air pump is 2400 lt/h for 4, 20 lt buckets.
My lights are LED Lumatek 465 zeus pro c, and running at 50% atm.

Net pots are like 1-2 inches above the water.
Also im hand watering (top feeding) those plants 3-4 times a day.

What you guys think. Are they looking ok? Feel free to ask me any info you want, all comments and suggestions are super appreciated.

Thank you for your time

Kind regardsView attachment 40787
View attachment 40788
View attachment 40789

I think I see a pipe half way up that ties the buckets together and an airline. Is there a circulation pump anywhere? Best practice on RDWC is 10 turns per hour. More just adds heat and energy use with no benefit

 

[moe.red]

Forgot to mention...

PPM is 580, also using TA Fulvic, and 0.1 ml/l Atami cal mag

Thanks

I agree this is too high ppm but you are on that already.

Ph should be centered on 5.8. We can talk about fulvic and silicates as you get a little further along. Don’t want to make too many changes all at once.

Cal mag should be 1:1 with grow at this point. Will help buffer ph too

 

[moe.red]

He's referring to the ratios of green (grow) to brown (micro) to pink (bloom). Like 3ml/gal grow to 2ml/gal micro to 1ml/gal bloom. Those numbers aren't concrete, just the ratio.

Most of us take the manufacturers recommended ratios and cut them down by half or more. The word on the street is that they put those high numbers on the bottle to get you to buy more product in the end.

There is a lot that goes into this. Probably worth spelling it out at the risk of confusion but we can fix that.

Think of the plant as a little pump. The motor is at the top in the leaves. Transpiration is the motor that drives water up the stem. As stomata open on the bottom side of the leaves, water vapor is allowed to escape which is then replaced by water in the roots if the plant is working right.

Nutes travel up in that water.

The flow rate of water depends on the relationship of several variables. You will probably run into the term VPD or vapour pressure deficit. I even spelled it wrong just for you and the Canadians on board.

In a nutshell temp and humidity play a significant role in how much transpiring is happening. If the humidity is very high there is less room in the air for new water molecules to leave the plant. If the humidity is too low the plant shuts its stomata to protect itself from drought.

If either of those conditions exist the amount of ppm is somewhat irrelevant because they are not heading up the stalk anyhow.

In a well tuned RDWC the transpiration is high. If your ppms are also high you burn the plant. That’s why less is more with RDWC. I think you will always find that master soil growers use higher ppms than master hydro growers.

As an example when in full on veg in one of my 4x8s I can pull 10 gallons per day out of the dehumidifier. If I’m running 600ppm or more (500 scale) I’ve got problems. Also I run co2 which complicates it more.

It’s always better to start low and work up. Hungry plants are easy to fix. Burned plants not as easy.

Ok enough soap box for tonight. Your takeaway is to look up VPD and get some environmental data we can look at to begin to tune your grow. Day and night temps and rh trends to start with.

And when in doubt or your plants take a bad turn turn down the lights to give yourself time to react. It’s like the speed control on your grow.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Aw shit fire alarm at Newark airport. Hope I make it home.

Last time I was in Newark airport there were rats loose in the terminal causing mass panic and a mentally disturbed and/or drunk man who was escorted off the plane shortly before takeoff. Utter shithole.

 

[moe.red]

Last time I was in Newark airport there were rats loose in the terminal causing mass panic and a mentally disturbed and/or drunk man who was escorted off the plane shortly before takeoff. Utter shithole.

At LaGuardia had an idiot kid run thru security to kiss his girlfriend goodbye.

They emptied the entire terminal onto the parking lot and sent us all thru security again after the dogs and swat team cleared the whole place. 7 hour delay. Fun times.

I think the airport ran out of beer that night and a kid probably got beat to death

Still beats driving cross country tho.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Still beats driving cross country tho.

Nothing beats a good cross country cruise in my book. Might be the years I spent as a somewhat mule.

I'd much rather do that than mosey through security just to sit in a crowded airport waiting to board a crowded plane for a couple hours only to land and do it all again. Yuck.

 

[Observer]

I'm trying to find some information on feeding the right ppm's, since i find this very important.
All things i find, showing values way above of those you guys mentioned.
Im not saying anything about you being wrong, all i do is trying to understand how to work with nutes.
I totally understand that your values comes from practice, but those i keep reading are just brochures.

Here is another brochure from Royal Queen

All info and suggestions are super appreciated

Thank you for your time

Kind regardsView attachment 40982

At one point, you throw all that way and learn how to read the plant

 

[Bushman]

Greetings sirs!!!

WoW, so many things, i like science!!

Plants are looking a little bit happier today btw

Moe.Red, everyone, thanks for your time, i really appreciate it

All that hydrogen peroxide thing is really interesting, is there another way to count peroxides ppm except those strips? I was reading somewhere that you could use from 1ml/l to 3ml/l of 3% in your reservoir, without damaging the plants, is that right?

Yes, there is a water pump, 2000lt/h, my system consists of 8 buckets and one control bucket. I running around 130lt of water in there. So i guessing i have around 15 turns per hour. Chiller i bought is useless for the summer hot days, it's too small... What a shame.

By using cal mag together with grow 1:1 , you mean, if i use 1 part grow i should use same amount of cal mag, right?

VDP, i see...
My room temp is around 20 all the time,its a mild winter here. I was thinking, maybe i should add one hps lamp instead of led, for extra temps, since i have one. As goes for humidity, i guess i must to invest in hygrometer. I run a humidifier for some time in the room, just to collect some humidity.

Once again, thanks for being so helpful

My best wishes

 

[Observer]

Greetings sirs!!!

WoW, so many things, i like science!!

Plants are looking a little bit happier today btw

Moe.Red, everyone, thanks for your time, i really appreciate it

All that hydrogen peroxide thing is really interesting, is there another way to count peroxides ppm except those strips? I was reading somewhere that you could use from 1ml/l to 3ml/l of 3% in your reservoir, without damaging the plants, is that right?

ORP sensors, oxidation reduction potential.
Though, I've not use one yet, or what the "maximum" reading would be/safe for plant health/optimum for root zone oxygenation.

I use 34% h202 at 3-8mL per Gallon.

Others will say 3-5mL

But I go ham with the h2o2 @ 34%

Yes, there is a water pump, 2000lt/h, my system consists of 8 buckets and one control bucket. I running around 130lt of water in there. So i guessing i have around 15 turns per hour. Chiller i bought is useless for the summer hot days, it's too small... What a shame.

By using cal mag together with grow 1:1 , you mean, if i use 1 part grow i should use same amount of cal mag, right?

VDP, i see...
My room temp is around 20 all the time,its a mild winter here. I was thinking, maybe i should add one hps lamp instead of led, for extra temps, since i have one. As goes for humidity, i guess i must to invest in hygrometer. I run a humidifier for some time in the room, just to collect some humidity.

Once again, thanks for being so helpful

My best wishes

 

[Bushman]

WoW!!!
Thats a lot of peroxide
How would you treat root rot with it?

Btw i replaced one of my most unhealthy looking seedlings with a better looking one, had one on a side in a netpot, sitting in some water.

Also opened up the other seedling. Looked fine with white roots.
How long do those tiny plants need top feeding?

What about plant on the second pic, with a bigger roots? Should i continue top feeding?

Thank you for your time

 

[smoke]

Once your roots hit the water, there's no reason to top feed

 

[moe.red]

Just got a minute for now, wanted to answer the peroxide dosing question.

Yes, you can do some math if you know the actual volume of water in your system (not just adding up the container sizes) and know the % peroxide.

Here is where the problem comes in if we want to get technical. Ever pour peroxide on a cut and watch it bubble? Notice it only bubbles on the cut and not your clean finger? That's because peroxide is like a heat seeking missile for organics.

If you put in the correct amount of H2O2 to get to 10PPM in a clean system, the math works.

If you put that same amount into a system with turds floating in it, it will immediately attack the turds and burn itself off. In 30 minutes you will measure 0 PPM peroxide.

So if you are trying to get the water to an effective dose to treat root rot, doing the measuring thing will most likely not end up in a PPM level you are expecting because it will oxidize quickly with all the pythium it needs to kill. It will bubble like on your cut and burn itself off quickly, leaving none left to not just get into every nook and cranny, but to remain in the water to continue protecting you for the next couple of days. Pythium will remain in that system for a while once you have it, it finds a place to hide and will re-infect if you don't have a low level of peroxide in the water going forward.

So, using peroxide if you have pythium is good. If you have no way to actually measure PPM, you will want to probably up your dose frequency. And at this point you are playing a guessing game as to how much to add and when.

If you get to a high PPM like 50+ - it will also eat some of the root cells. You will see this as them turning almost a brownish red color.

Take it for what it is worth. If you like to be precise with your medicine doses, you need the strips. If you have root rot and don't have strips, you are still better off using peroxide and doing the best you can with dosage than just letting the problem get worse. Roots burned by H2O2 are most likely better than ones with an active colony of root rot.

 

[Observer]

ORP sensors, oxidation reduction potential.
Though, I've not use one yet, or what the "maximum" reading would be/safe for plant health/optimum for root zone oxygenation.

I use 34% h202 at 3-8mL per Gallon.

Others will say 3-5mL

But I go ham with the h2o2 @ 34%

wait, let me clarify on this/ context

in this context this is for feed solution, (i use 3-7mL, playing around with upwards to 10mL) h2o2 34% per gallon of water for DTW_drain-to-waste, coco/wool/perl) systems


does it carry over for RES's , i believe so.

redose RES every 3-5 days with h2o2/pool shock (calcium hypochlorous acid)
if going the STERILE route.

411

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Welcome to Bud Builders Bushman, a little late coming to your thread but you are hearing some solid advice. Will be following along and helping when I can.

I will add briefly that I run RDWC but also use a different method than what smoke and Moe use. The main difference is smoke and Moe use an auto top off res and I do not. I top off manually with buckets of water and mixed nutrients. I am not sure if anyone else grows this way but it works and makes things easy peasy.

My main tool is this chart.

I have learned to never use the nutrient manufacturer recommendations on the amounts to feed my plants. I also use GH Trio and only look to their charts for the proper ratio between brown, green and pink, that's it. It's been said, I'll say it again. It's easier to help a hungry plant than an overfed one. I always start on the low side of things with total ppm and then, using the above chart, I read the water and the plants and that tells me what to do.

I keep a daily log of pH and ppm, morning and evening at least. I can see when things are changing and I read that chart to tell me what to do. You first look at the EC or PPM, I use ppm. What's the ppm doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then go to that part of the chart and ask, what is the pH doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then look at that part of the chart to see what to do.

Don't want to overload you, there is a bit of a learning curve here, but once you get the hang of it, you will love it. Happy to help any way I can, will be following along.

 

[Bushman]

Smoke, Moe.Red, thanks

Observer, thanks!! I see you working with different system. Hey, what is RES? You telling that those numbers should work on RDWC also?
Yay!! Whats calcium hypochlorous acid, and how it works? You combining both acid and peroxide? Peroxide by itself doesn't do the job?

SweetLeafGrow, hey!!
Very interesting, how my rdwc differs from yours, smokes and MoeReds. I mean, i don't quite understand what are auto top off ress are. Yes, I don't know much
The chart of yours is sweet also. I think i understand a little what you doing there.

Thanks

 

[Cool_Beans]

Good luck dude! Super fun way to grow and very helpful folks here.

 

[Observer]

Smoke, Moe.Red, thanks

Observer, thanks!! I see you working with different system. Hey, what is RES?

RES = Resevoir

You telling that those numbers should work on RDWC also?

yea , i think so, if one is going the sterile route 3-5ml 34% h2o2 per gallon, 3-5 days

Yay!! Whats calcium hypochlorous acid, and how it works?

this is "snakeoil" you can make the "same thing" A LOT CHEAPER, with POOL SHOCK, 1 gram of pool shock /per gallon

Pool Shock?

I've seen it mentioned in other threads but I was just wondering if anyone currently is using it and if so what is your dosing procedure? UC Roots is damn expensive. Thanks.

www.thcfarmer.com

You combining both acid and peroxide?

i mix both and Ca(CIO)2 and 34% H2o2

"""

1. Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2):Hydrogen peroxide can decompose into water (H2O) and oxygen (O2) gas, especially under certain conditions:
   2�2�2→2�2�+�22H2O2→2H2O+O2
2. Calcium Hypochlorite (Ca(ClO)2):Calcium hypochlorite can release hypochlorite ions (���−ClO−) when dissolved in water:
   ��(���)2→��2++2���−Ca(ClO)2→Ca2++2ClO−

When these two reactions are combined, the hypochlorite ions may react with hydrogen peroxide to form water, oxygen, and chloride ions:

2�2�2+2���−→2�2�+�2+2��−2H2O2+2ClO−→2H2O+O2+2Cl−

The released oxygen would be in the form of gas and might be observed as bubbles.""

guess, cant copy paste those symbols here, idk.

Peroxide by itself doesn't do the job?

it can.

SweetLeafGrow, hey!!
Very interesting, how my rdwc differs from yours, smokes and MoeReds. I mean, i don't quite understand what are auto top off ress are. Yes, I don't know much
The chart of yours is sweet also. I think i understand a little what you doing there.

Thanks

 

[Observer]

RES = Resevoir

yea , i think so, if one is going the sterile route 3-5ml 34% h2o2 per gallon, 3-5 days

View attachment 41314

this is "snakeoil" you can make the "same thing" A LOT CHEAPER, with POOL SHOCK, 1 gram of pool shock /per gallon

Pool Shock?

I've seen it mentioned in other threads but I was just wondering if anyone currently is using it and if so what is your dosing procedure? UC Roots is damn expensive. Thanks.

www.thcfarmer.com

i mix both, Ca(CIO)2 and 34% H2o2

"""

1. Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2):Hydrogen peroxide can decompose into water (H2O) and oxygen (O2) gas, especially under certain conditions:
   2�2�2→2�2�+�22H2O2→2H2O+O2
2. Calcium Hypochlorite (Ca(ClO)2):Calcium hypochlorite can release hypochlorite ions (���−ClO−) when dissolved in water:
   ��(���)2→��2++2���−Ca(ClO)2→Ca2++2ClO−

When these two reactions are combined, the hypochlorite ions may react with hydrogen peroxide to form water, oxygen, and chloride ions:

2�2�2+2���−→2�2�+�2+2��−2H2O2+2ClO−→2H2O+O2+2Cl−

The released oxygen would be in the form of gas and might be observed as bubbles.""

guess, cant copy paste those symbols here, idk.




it can.

Edited

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Very interesting, how my rdwc differs from yours, smokes and MoeReds. I mean, i don't quite understand what are auto top off ress are.

Auto top off means that they have a separate reservoir that feeds their main system reservoir using a float valve.

Basically, this extra "res" is there to replenish the main system, and as the plants drink together with a bit of evaporation, keep the system water level constant. This has the effect, over time, to dilute the nutrient solution ppm numbers so nutrients must be added to the system to maintain any given ppm. This is how smoke and Moe run their systems.

I do not have that extra res so when my plants drink, I need to get water in buckets, mix the nutrients in the proper ratios and at the proper ppm, and then add that to my system.

 

[Observer]

Smoke, Moe.Red, thanks

Observer, thanks!! I see you working with different system

like to learn it all lol

Kratky, DWC, RDWC, Ebb & Flow, Fogponics, AeroPonics, RockWool (DTW)/Coco ("Drain-To-Waste")

 

[smoke]

Welcome to Bud Builders Bushman, a little late coming to your thread but you are hearing some solid advice. Will be following along and helping when I can.

I will add briefly that I run RDWC but also use a different method than what smoke and Moe use. The main difference is smoke and Moe use an auto top off res and I do not. I top off manually with buckets of water and mixed nutrients. I am not sure if anyone else grows this way but it works and makes things easy peasy.

My main tool is this chart.

I have learned to never use the nutrient manufacturer recommendations on the amounts to feed my plants. I also use GH Trio and only look to their charts for the proper ratio between brown, green and pink, that's it. It's been said, I'll say it again. It's easier to help a hungry plant than an overfed one. I always start on the low side of things with total ppm and then, using the above chart, I read the water and the plants and that tells me what to do.

I keep a daily log of pH and ppm, morning and evening at least. I can see when things are changing and I read that chart to tell me what to do. You first look at the EC or PPM, I use ppm. What's the ppm doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then go to that part of the chart and ask, what is the pH doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then look at that part of the chart to see what to do.

Don't want to overload you, there is a bit of a learning curve here, but once you get the hang of it, you will love it. Happy to help any way I can, will be following along.

I cropped that page you gave me a couple days ago and thought I'd add it here.

 

[Observer]

Best practice on RDWC is 10 turns per hour. More just adds heat and energy use with no benefit

Ty

So I should probably use my timer and set up on/off cycles for the Recirculation bit, Atleast 10 "turns or cycles" an hour?

 

[moe.red]

Ty

So I should probably use my timer and set up on/off cycles for the Recirculation bit, Atleast 10 "turns or cycles" an hour?

No what I mean by that is if you have a 40lt system use a 400lph pump. Jumping to an 800lph does not improve your grow.

I do not recommend a timer on the circ pump leave it on 24/7

Or use a variable speed pump. @steamroller is the site expert on pumps.

 

[Observer]

No what I mean by that is if you have a 40lt system use a 400lph pump. Jumping to an 800lph does not improve your grow.

I do not recommend a timer on the circ pump leave it on 24/7

Or use a variable speed pump. @steamroller is the site expert on pumps.

ahh, i see what ur saying

thanks moe.

 

[Bushman]

I'm so grateful for all your help folks

Thanks!! Stuff you sharing is priceless.

SweetLeafGrow, what about my system. RDWC with control bucket but no valve in it. It's not auto top off right?
I using control bucket to add fresh water, nutes and make my measurements.
When adding nutrients, i doing it separately with every nute, and waiting a little until it mixes up in reservoirs. I heard, its not good when you mixing nutes all together at once.

Generally, as i understand, hydroponics working better with cuttings than plants from seed. From my observation, there is a lot of struggling for those tiny plants. Or im wrong here?, and those seedlings are struggling because of me, lol

I already acquired an aeroponic cloner for the future. And those two small seedlings are bubble gums, I'll try to make them mother plants..