Gassy Cream Cake Hydro scrog

[moe.red]

https://imgur.com/a/rIB6CJc

What a badass.

Figure out your timing to get a 1ml dose and you have this half done.

 

[moe.red]

so far i can talk to the little pumps and tell them to turn on and off and send liquid. next i need to tie a ph meter to it and tell it to pump one or the other and for how long depending on what the ph reading is.

So what you are actually going to do the cool kids call fuzzy logic.

You are not going to be say looking at a chart and if the ph is 7.2 turn on down pump for 3 seconds. That kinda thing does not work well in an RDWC. If you dump a bunch of ph down in all at once the res might go to 4 and then over time with stirring get back to 5.8. Or not. You might overshoot or undershoot. This has a negative impact on nutes precipitating out, Bennie’s dying off, and shocking the roots.

What you want to do is take advantage of the fact you don’t need to stand there for hours, and do tiny shots. As in 250 milliseconds kinda thing. And if you are really feeling froggy dilute the ph up and down. Wait 3 or 5 minutes to let it stabilize before dosing again. So what if it takes an hour to go from 6.0 to 5.8? You are not paying this robot by the hour.

The goal is to keep the res as stable as possible and avoid big swings and overcorrection. It’s all about that software bro.

This can all be adapted into nute dosing as well. I sent you like a dozen pumps so you have plenty to play with!

So cool you got this far and can see how this fits together.

 

[moe.red]

I sent this to our admin in chief on pm but it’s too funny not to share with you all

 

[Max]

they are expensive AF!! considering what they are and how they work!! i hope to build one for less than half the price.



sweet thanks, i'll check that out for sure!!!!!



this is my very first man, i've copied/paste and edited text on a couple codes before but this is the first time i typed it all out and made it personal.

baby steps!!!



i had to use one of these Max..

View attachment 94027

this is how i get my buds to look half the size of yours!!!! hahaha



haha i hear man, i hear ya... we'll say it was the nutes, because i probably won't use it in hydro anymore now that have the trio.. haha

I’ll tell you my little secret one day

 

[Stoneyluv]

What a badass.

Figure out your timing to get a 1ml dose and you have this half done.

I've been playing around with it a bit. i believe that 1110ms is the correct amount of time to dispense 1ml

i wrote a code to make a button activate a rlay connected to the pump and messed around manually with a couple ml's at a time and then added the line in there to make one button push run it 200 times and fine tuned the timing till i got 1110ms



i'm gonna need help getting that type of code and connect it to the pH part i made...

https://imgur.com/K1qp23P

.

today i received the temp probe from dfrobot and also the industrial ph probe.. i don't know if size matters but this thing is huge!! haha



for some reason i think this probe is a different library from the one you sent me, i'll try to connect this one to my code and see if i can get the temp probe to work and get it all calibrated for practice..

So what you are actually going to do the cool kids call fuzzy logic.

You are not going to be say looking at a chart and if the ph is 7.2 turn on down pump for 3 seconds. That kinda thing does not work well in an RDWC. If you dump a bunch of ph down in all at once the res might go to 4 and then over time with stirring get back to 5.8. Or not. You might overshoot or undershoot. This has a negative impact on nutes precipitating out, Bennie’s dying off, and shocking the roots.

What you want to do is take advantage of the fact you don’t need to stand there for hours, and do tiny shots. As in 250 milliseconds kinda thing. And if you are really feeling froggy dilute the ph up and down. Wait 3 or 5 minutes to let it stabilize before dosing again. So what if it takes an hour to go from 6.0 to 5.8? You are not paying this robot by the hour.

The goal is to keep the res as stable as possible and avoid big swings and overcorrection. It’s all about that software bro.

This can all be adapted into nute dosing as well. I sent you like a dozen pumps so you have plenty to play with!

So cool you got this far and can see how this fits together.

this is so cool man!!! i really appreciate all your help with it making this a possibility!!!!

I’ll tell you my little secret one day View attachment 94051

i'll try to patiently wait but dammit we wanna know!!! hahaha

.
.

it's only been a couple days now since i restarted, seedlings were looking a bit sad in the cloner so i loaded up the RDWC with GH trio and put them in coco/perlite mix..

the plants... Redbeards California Orange Sherbet



the solution mix...



the program...

 

[moe.red]

Either you got tiny trump hands or that probe is a beast.

It will in turn grow absolute unit trees I’m sure. Although there is the water displacement to consider..

 

[Stoneyluv]

Either you got tiny trump hands or that probe is a beast.

It will in turn grow absolute unit trees I’m sure. Although there is the water displacement to consider..

she can handle just the tip!! no worries there!!!

 

[Max]

I've been playing around with it a bit. i believe that 1110ms is the correct amount of time to dispense 1ml

i wrote a code to make a button activate a rlay connected to the pump and messed around manually with a couple ml's at a time and then added the line in there to make one button push run it 200 times and fine tuned the timing till i got 1110ms

View attachment 94795

i'm gonna need help getting that type of code and connect it to the pH part i made...

https://imgur.com/K1qp23P

.

today i received the temp probe from dfrobot and also the industrial ph probe.. i don't know if size matters but this thing is huge!! haha

View attachment 94796

for some reason i think this probe is a different library from the one you sent me, i'll try to connect this one to my code and see if i can get the temp probe to work and get it all calibrated for practice..



this is so cool man!!! i really appreciate all your help with it making this a possibility!!!!




i'll try to patiently wait but dammit we wanna know!!! hahaha

.
.

it's only been a couple days now since i restarted, seedlings were looking a bit sad in the cloner so i loaded up the RDWC with GH trio and put them in coco/perlite mix..

the plants... Redbeards California Orange Sherbet

View attachment 94800View attachment 94801

the solution mix...

View attachment 94802

the program...

View attachment 94799

 

[Stoneyluv]

Either you got tiny trump hands or that probe is a beast.

It will in turn grow absolute unit trees I’m sure. Although there is the water displacement to consider..

i got a little further Moe, my brain is about to explode with so much new information... i need more RAM!!! hahaha

so i got the new pH probe connected and the auto calibration feature working ( i haven't put it in the solution and actually performed it yet but that will be next)



then i also got the new temperature probe connected and talking to the ph probe. also got the screen to display them both (in multi color!) and got the temp to display in fahrenheit!!!!

https://imgur.com/a/O8JL1Fl

took me quite a while but i wouldn't let it beat me.. error after error i finally figured it out!! i'm learning more about how to piece things together that are already done from different sources.

so whats next with this project? i now know how to measure the water and i also know how long it takes to dispense 1ml. how do i tie those two together?

i assume i need to define the two digital outputs, name the outputs, then in the loop some sort of "If phvalue is < 5.8 then send pin x high" sort of command. and maybe a delay till it checks it again. and another one for the >5.8.

am i even in the right ballpark? i mean are we really seven or eight lines of code away from being able to prototype this, or is there way more to the fuzzy logic then just looking and reacting over and over?

 

[Max]

We have lost you now stoney..you have crossed to the other side of no return . long as you post pics I’m fine

 

[ninjadip]

i got a little further Moe, my brain is about to explode with so much new information... i need more RAM!!! hahaha

so i got the new pH probe connected and the auto calibration feature working ( i haven't put it in the solution and actually performed it yet but that will be next)

View attachment 94972

then i also got the new temperature probe connected and talking to the ph probe. also got the screen to display them both (in multi color!) and got the temp to display in fahrenheit!!!!

https://imgur.com/a/O8JL1Fl

took me quite a while but i wouldn't let it beat me.. error after error i finally figured it out!! i'm learning more about how to piece things together that are already done from different sources.

so whats next with this project? i now know how to measure the water and i also know how long it takes to dispense 1ml. how do i tie those two together?

i assume i need to define the two digital outputs, name the outputs, then in the loop some sort of "If phvalue is < 5.8 then send pin x high" sort of command. and maybe a delay till it checks it again. and another one for the >5.8.

am i even in the right ballpark? i mean are we really seven or eight lines of code away from being able to prototype this, or is there way more to the fuzzy logic then just looking and reacting over and over?

This spurred me to "upgrade" my current ph controller dosing settings by adding a cycle timer on it to do a 2 second on 15 minutes off before another ph down dosing test. Idk why I didn't think of that before. Moe is right, it always better to adjust ph slowly in rwdc, and with automation it can do that for you. Thanks for the idea!!

Edit*
I feel much *more confident on my first away trip longer than one day that the system won't need any human adjustment while I'm gone.

 

[Stoneyluv]

We have lost you now stoney..you have crossed to the other side of no return . long as you post pics I’m fine

i still got pics Max!!!! hey did ya see my new light came with Gizz sticker pre installed!! it should make the plants grow faster!!!

This spurred me to "upgrade" my current ph controller dosing settings by adding a cycle timer on it to do a 2 second on 15 off before another ph down dosing test. Idk why I didn't think of that before. Moe is right, it always better to adjust ph slowly in rwdc, and with automation it can do that for you. Thanks for the idea!!

I feel much confident on my first away trip longer than one day that the system won't need any human adjustment while I'm gone.

thats a great idea man!! another one thats been sticking with me is when moe said about diluting the up and down.. i might need to do this because my down is 20% and 1ml drops my system down 0.4. i would think thats to much for a doser...

 

[ninjadip]

i still got pics Max!!!! hey did ya see my new light came with Gizz sticker pre installed!! it should make the plants grow faster!!!

View attachment 94977



thats a great idea man!! another one thats been sticking with me is when moe said about diluting the up and down.. i might need to do this because my down is 20% and 1ml drops my system down 0.4. i would think thats to much for a doser...

Oh yes, I have mine super diluted cause my total volume is very small. This delay has made all the difference, now the pH is spot on to whatever I set the controller to. Drip a little, wait, reassess, simple but game changing. Before it would often over dose.

 

[moe.red]

i assume i need to define the two digital outputs, name the outputs, then in the loop some sort of "If phvalue is < 5.8 then send pin x high" sort of command. and maybe a delay till it checks it again. and another one for the >5.8.

am i even in the right ballpark? i mean are we really seven or eight lines of code away from being able to prototype this, or is there way more to the fuzzy logic then just looking and reacting over and over?

Yes bro, you got it. Super impressed you got this far tho.

So when I sent you the info on functions, that is where it will come in. In psudocode:

Define area
Constant PH Target = 5.8
Pin PH UP = 13
Pin PH Down = 12
Set pin PH Up, PH Down as output
Variable declarations
Other stuff

loop start

Check PH
If PH </> PH Target
call PH adjust
End IF
Check Temp
Get current date.time
Set display(temp and PH)
Log PH and temp values to serial port or sd card + date.time
delay 10000 (or however often you want to check / update display)

Loop End

Function PH Adjust(PH) {

If PH > PH target
Pin PH Down = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH Down = LOW
End IF

IF PH < PH Target
Pin PH UP = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH UP = LOW
End IF
}
//Function over


That with a little bit of finesse will get you where you need to be. We will need to add some timers and such in there so that it does not constantly dose up and down fighting itself. We will want to add some hysteresis - maybe PH Target +.02 or something. This is a trial and error thing and will need to be based on your res size, how big your circ pump is, etc. Basically we want to wait 10 minutes between dosing so you know you have good stirring and are getting a correct PH reading. May be 15 minutes in your system.

You will just keep building on all the existing functionality of reading your probes and such, and adding in these functions to do the work based on what you are reading. Your code will keep growing and the loop will get longer and longer. That's why you want to break things out into functions.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Oh yes, I have mine super diluted cause my total volume is very small. This delay has made all the difference, now the pH is spot on to whatever I set the controller to. Drip a little, wait, reassess, simple but game changing. Before it would often over dose.

having the dosing must really put your mind at ease.. just one less thing to worry about!! i can't wait to give it a try!!

Yes bro, you got it. Super impressed you got this far tho.

So when I sent you the info on functions, that is where it will come in. In psudocode:

Define area
Constant PH Target = 5.8
Pin PH UP = 13
Pin PH Down = 12
Set pin PH Up, PH Down as output
Variable declarations
Other stuff

loop start

Check PH
If PH </> PH Target
call PH adjust
End IF
Check Temp
Get current date.time
Set display(temp and PH)
Log PH and temp values to serial port or sd card + date.time
delay 10000 (or however often you want to check / update display)

Loop End

Function PH Adjust(PH) {

If PH > PH target
Pin PH Down = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH Down = LOW
End IF

IF PH < PH Target
Pin PH UP = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH UP = LOW
End IF
}
//Function over


That with a little bit of finesse will get you where you need to be. We will need to add some timers and such in there so that it does not constantly dose up and down fighting itself. We will want to add some hysteresis - maybe PH Target +.02 or something. This is a trial and error thing and will need to be based on your res size, how big your circ pump is, etc. Basically we want to wait 10 minutes between dosing so you know you have good stirring and are getting a correct PH reading. May be 15 minutes in your system.

You will just keep building on all the existing functionality of reading your probes and such, and adding in these functions to do the work based on what you are reading. Your code will keep growing and the loop will get longer and longer. That's why you want to break things out into functions.

thanks Moe!!! i understand some of that.. i'm not scared to try so i'll give it a go!!!!!

i've been keeping the code nice and neat so it's easier to modify.. each time i seem to pick up a few new things so it's been a lot fun so far!!

prime had a sale on some stuff so i picked up a couple four row displays and some double relays packs. i did a little side project and connected the TDS probe, it was much easier to add the temp probe the second time around....

 

[moe.red]

Somebody is feelin' it.

You go gurl!

 

[Stoneyluv]

one week in the books and the plants are off to a good start... growth looks good, color looks good, roots look good, well at least better than i have before so good for that!!!

my solution and choices and to put all that stuff in might not have been the best decision though. my ph has been dive bombing all week. i'd adjust it at 6 and 24 hrs later it would be under 5.
so i went back to what i learned about my cloner with the trio and drained the system tonight and put in just cal/mag and the trio. ph is now at 5.8, i'l check it tomorrow...

 

[Stoneyluv]

in thirteen hours my ph was down under 4.6.... i quit!

 

[moe.red]

WTF!!!!!!!

Coco leeching? I don’t understand

 

[Stoneyluv]

WTF!!!!!!!

Coco leeching? I don’t understand

i don't get it man...

i really washed that coco extra good before i used it, i checked it with my ec pen till it had no ppms.

it was fresh water last night. i even flushed the system first, plant sites were pure 0 ppms.. pump line was completely flushed too. i have a good system down for that now and it i swear it was clean as can be!

so in 25 gallons of 0ppm i put in 50ml calimagic - 30ml micro - 20ml bloom - 42ml gro. and 25ml enzymes, the ph was 6.4 so i put in 1.5ml down and it was 5.8... checked it a couple hour later once up to full temp and it was still spot on 5.8.

could it be the enzymes?

 

[Stoneyluv]

WTF!!!!!!!

Coco leeching? I don’t understand

and on top of al this the water was the stuff i put in my mixing barrel way before i restarted.. it's been in there for over a month with just air.. i measured it and it was 7.4ph, the exact same it was when i first put it in there!!

 

[moe.red]

So time for some testing like slg did with water samples outside the system and time.

This is absolutely not normal. I don’t see how plants this small can have this kind of effect.

I also have never seen enzymes react into a strong base. Not saying it is impossible just never seen it.

I would take a cup of water out of the system after you get the ph correct and let it sit for 24 hours. Is the ph stable while the res continues to dive?

 

[moe.red]

Let’s get that ph doser going today while we figure this out.

Racking my brain as to why you are either introducing a strong base or creating a reaction that results in one. This just should not happen with the chemistry as you describe it. There is something happening here that we don’t realize.

If there is something contamination it will eventually get overcome by dosing acid until it gets with the program. You are so close on the doser at least get the ph up part running to give us time is my advice

 

[CannaGranny]

Oh for gosh sakes, just stick it in some damn dirt!

 

[steamroller]

my solution and choices and to put all that stuff in might not have been the best decision though. my ph has been dive bombing all week. i'd adjust it at 6 and 24 hrs later it would be under 5.
so i went back to what i learned about my cloner with the trio and drained the system tonight and put in just cal/mag and the trio. ph is now at 5.8, i'l check it tomorrow...

I am just trying to figure out what causes water to act like yours is.
No hydro experience at all but I get water.
From my line of sight, I feel there has to be an organic source of rot to cause such a drastic drop.

I want to blame the Orca, Rapid start and possibly the enzymes.
But you did not install them on the last res correct?
If this is correct, then the 'contaminate' is either the trio or calmag.

Your untouched water staying stable says all I need to know about it IMO.
It is reported that too many nutrients can cause a drop.
Is you ec meter accurate/ are you doses in line with recommendations?

Here is another fairly simple test;
Pull some untreated water and ph it without anything else and set it aside.
If it is something you are adding it should stay stable after you adjust it.
If it does not stay stable then it is your water.
Trying to keep it simple?

 

[Stoneyluv]

So time for some testing like slg did with water samples outside the system and time.

This is absolutely not normal. I don’t see how plants this small can have this kind of effect.

I also have never seen enzymes react into a strong base. Not saying it is impossible just never seen it.

I would take a cup of water out of the system after you get the ph correct and let it sit for 24 hours. Is the ph stable while the res continues to dive?

good idea man!! so today when the lights came on it was 4.8 again, i took out a sample as is. then i added 5ml of up and am now at 6.0 i took out a sample of this as well. i'll let you guys know the results.

something else that seems really odd to me is when is actually starts to drop the ph.. seems really off but it seems to be solid for almost 12 hours then starts to drop after that. it's not a steady consistent drop from the start.

Let’s get that ph doser going today while we figure this out.

Racking my brain as to why you are either introducing a strong base or creating a reaction that results in one. This just should not happen with the chemistry as you describe it. There is something happening here that we don’t realize.

If there is something contamination it will eventually get overcome by dosing acid until it gets with the program. You are so close on the doser at least get the ph up part running to give us time is my advice

i worked on it a little Moe, i typed it out and hit verify and had a few red flags, not many.. just needs some tweaking i hope. i'm gonna work on it more once the sun goes down.. i'll show ya what i got so far.

also today i got a delivery from an impulse buy.. i should have asked you first before i bought it but YOLO!!! is this any good at all?


it's an UNO R4 with a esp32 on it so it has wifi and bluetooth!! even has it's own dedicated video out like the megas so it can utilize all six analog inputs!! usb C..

Oh for gosh sakes, just stick it in some damn dirt!

thats what i did with the gassy cream cake... just flipped to flower today!!

I am just trying to figure out what causes water to act like yours is.
No hydro experience at all but I get water.
From my line of sight, I feel there has to be an organic source of rot to cause such a drastic drop.

I want to blame the Orca, Rapid start and possibly the enzymes.
But you did not install them on the last res correct?
If this is correct, then the 'contaminate' is either the trio or calmag.

Your untouched water staying stable says all I need to know about it IMO.
It is reported that too many nutrients can cause a drop.
Is you ec meter accurate/ are you doses in line with recommendations?

Here is another fairly simple test;
Pull some untreated water and ph it without anything else and set it aside.
If it is something you are adding it should stay stable after you adjust it.
If it does not stay stable then it is your water.
Trying to keep it simple?

correct man, no orca no rapid start. just the five things, calimagic-trio-enzymes.

this is a great idea to test too man.. i will take it a step further even. you're right it has to be something i'm putting in right?!?! the water just on it's on didn't move. so i will pull fresh water from the tank, ph it down and wait.. if nothing changes i will add the calimagic, ph test and wait. if nothing changes add the trio same measure and wait. and lastly the enzymes. if nothing changes then it's in my system if it does change then one of these five has to be doing it, it might take six days to figure out but i just gotta know!!!

 

[moe.red]

I’m not even sure how I would go about making what you are describing happen if I wanted to.

I would want to know if it is the netpot or something in it causing it. Or if it is system / water.

This is just too weird man. Second grow in this hydro systems with unexplainable symptoms. wtf is in that water?? Ghosts?

 

[Stoneyluv]

I’m not even sure how I would go about making what you are describing happen if I wanted to.

i know, i bet i won't even be able to duplicate it with my own samples.. then what!?!

I would want to know if it is the netpot or something in it causing it. Or if it is system / water.

i don't have a lot of that coco perlite mixed up, i keep it in a tupperware it's so small.. i will take some of that and put my fresh water in it and monitor that ph alongside the other samples.

this will then cover the water, nutes, and coco.. if it's not any of those then it would suggest something in the system itself.. components, sealant, something.

This is just too weird man. Second grow in this hydro systems with unexplainable symptoms. wtf is in that water?? Ghosts?

this is where im at and i can't just bail on it.. because it worked, there was success and not much was changed in between. if it never worked ever then it would be easy to say it's the system.

i mean this was the whole plan of building this, to keep it cheap see if i liked it and if i could be good at it.. it was cheap, i like it, i just need to be good at it and i planned to buy a real system but so far this has stretched out longer than i hoped to and i feel like i keep stumbling right at the beginning of race each time. i was hoping to grow plants and make mistakes along the way and learn but this is just straight up confusing.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Yes bro, you got it. Super impressed you got this far tho.

So when I sent you the info on functions, that is where it will come in. In psudocode:

Define area
Constant PH Target = 5.8
Pin PH UP = 13
Pin PH Down = 12
Set pin PH Up, PH Down as output
Variable declarations
Other stuff

loop start

Check PH
If PH </> PH Target
call PH adjust
End IF
Check Temp
Get current date.time
Set display(temp and PH)
Log PH and temp values to serial port or sd card + date.time
delay 10000 (or however often you want to check / update display)

Loop End

Function PH Adjust(PH) {

If PH > PH target
Pin PH Down = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH Down = LOW
End IF

IF PH < PH Target
Pin PH UP = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH UP = LOW
End IF
}
//Function over


That with a little bit of finesse will get you where you need to be. We will need to add some timers and such in there so that it does not constantly dose up and down fighting itself. We will want to add some hysteresis - maybe PH Target +.02 or something. This is a trial and error thing and will need to be based on your res size, how big your circ pump is, etc. Basically we want to wait 10 minutes between dosing so you know you have good stirring and are getting a correct PH reading. May be 15 minutes in your system.

You will just keep building on all the existing functionality of reading your probes and such, and adding in these functions to do the work based on what you are reading. Your code will keep growing and the loop will get longer and longer. That's why you want to break things out into functions.

i have a bunch of ph tests laid out right now and feel we'll have enough data by monday early evening to nail down my ph sinking.

until then i was trying to fill in blanks on the the doser code.

i'm stuck at how to call or define the PH_Adjust command. i've tried a couple things i thought it might be like a void or just #define but it's not happy with those and the only way i can make it happy is putting ( ) after it. (line 22) i have a strong feeling this is wrong but not sure what is correct.

i'm getting an error only on that line at this point.. or maybe i'm just faking out the beginning i'm just not sure where my error is.

my code thus far..(no data log stuff in there yet)



help me Obi Wan...

 

[moe.red]

i have a bunch of ph tests laid out right now and feel we'll have enough data by monday early evening to nail down my ph sinking.

until then i was trying to fill in blanks on the the doser code.

i'm stuck at how to call or define the PH_Adjust command. i've tried a couple things i thought it might be like a void or just #define but it's not happy with those and the only way i can make it happy is putting ( ) after it. (line 22) i have a strong feeling this is wrong but not sure what is correct.

i'm getting an error only on that line at this point.. or maybe i'm just faking out the beginning i'm just not sure where my error is.

my code thus far..(no data log stuff in there yet)

View attachment 95441View attachment 95440

help me Obi Wan...

Ok no problem you have to pass it the ph value. Can you email me the ino file and I’ll fix it up for ya.

What I sent was pseudo code it needed tweaking based on what you had already, variable names, etc. I should have been more clear. It was intended to describe the logic but not be copy and paste.