First Time.

[GrumpAzz]

Sad... My little fake aerogarden station that I used for seedlings crapped out a week or two ago. It really wasn't ready to be moved, it's struggling to bounce back and I have a feeling it won't make it, but it's not dead yet...

Been traveling a lot so haven't been able to baby it like it needs. Sad but I have a lot of other healthy plants so if it doesn't make it, c'est la vie

New job stuff?

 

[ninjadip]

New job stuff?

We've been going on trips a few weekends in a row, and all this happened right before we had to leave. There is still a chance it will come back but it's slim. Small plant with 3 nodes and droopy leaves

 

[GrumpAzz]

We've been going on trips a few weekends in a row, and all this happened right before we had to leave. There is still a chance it will come back but it's slim. Small plant with 3 nodes and droopy leaves

Mine's turned into a deliciously scented screen of green. Should be harvest time in two to three weeks.

 

[ninjadip]

Mine's turned into a deliciously scented screen of green. Should be harvest time in two to three weeks.

Awesome! I'm super excited for this Banana blaze from Dutch passion that is turning into a tree in my big tent

 

[GrumpAzz]

It's been a battle with these last couple nute changes. After my fiasco this morning (see above), my pH rose to 6.3 after the nute change. I'm assuming the whoops of adding the DOWN instead of UP and the subsequent shot of UP to get it under control temporarily has thrown things for a loop.

I performed my nute change as usual and after a couple hours, it rose to 6.3 from 6.0. I hit it with a little DOWN (5ml) and it came down to 6.0 again. It dropped everso slowly and held 5.8 the rest of the morning and into the afternoon. I kept checking and kept seeing 5.8. Then somehow in the last couple hours, it tanked to 5.3. I hit it with 15ml of UP and will stay vigilant through the evening.

Man... using UP and DOWN as my buffer has just been a pain in the ass. Hopefully I'm not fighting it for the rest of the grow. Extreme ping-pong can't be good for a finishing plant. I can't wait to check in on her tonight and apologize. Poor gal.

 

[Rootsruler]

I try not to see saw my solutions like that. If you're using GH Up/Down The Down is very concentrated so a little goes a long way. The Up uses around twice the amount to get the desired rise.

I try to add slowly and give it time to settle to its true pH before I add more. Early on I'd be see sawing when I was mixing and one of the master growers at one of the LGO's pointed out how my chasing pH was changing the nutrient ratios.

 

[Anthem275]

It's been a battle with these last couple nute changes. After my fiasco this morning (see above), my pH rose to 6.3 after the nute change. I'm assuming the whoops of adding the DOWN instead of UP and the subsequent shot of UP to get it under control temporarily has thrown things for a loop.

I performed my nute change as usual and after a couple hours, it rose to 6.3 from 6.0. I hit it with a little DOWN (5ml) and it came down to 6.0 again. It dropped everso slowly and held 5.8 the rest of the morning and into the afternoon. I kept checking and kept seeing 5.8. Then somehow in the last couple hours, it tanked to 5.3. I hit it with 15ml of UP and will stay vigilant through the evening.

Man... using UP and DOWN as my buffer has just been a pain in the ass. Hopefully I'm not fighting it for the rest of the grow. Extreme ping-pong can't be good for a finishing plant. I can't wait to check in on her tonight and apologize. Poor gal.

Try to use something to sort of measure how much you are adding to the solution to get the hang of it. I have been at this for a while so for me I just use the bottle caps. The hell with that Gh up and down. Next time buy Grow More PH up and Down. It is like 3 times as strong. I use 70 percent PH down solution now and just tamper down the stuff by adding water. A gallon goes along ways with that stuff.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Try to use something to sort of measure how much you are adding to the solution to get the hang of it. I have been at this for a while so for me I just use the bottle caps. The hell with that Gh up and down. Next time buy Grow More PH up and Down. It is like 3 times as strong. I use 70 percent PH down solution now and just tamper down the stuff by adding water. A gallon goes along ways with that stuff.

I use a 30ml syringe so I know exactly what's going in. It just seems to drift down inconsistently. I've only done a couple changes with it but it seems to hold steady for a few hours and then out of nowhere, it'll tank. I'll add more and then same situation. It's like it's got inconsistent circulation, but I didn't have this issue with the Agsil. That was a slow drift down for a day or two and once it settled it would hold for over a week.

I also completely muffed up this morning. I explained that in pretty good detail on the previous page. I pulled a bonehead move by adding down instead of up this morning. Maybe some lower ph'd solution has taken a while to make it out of the root mass after the full res change.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I try not to see saw my solutions like that. If you're using GH Up/Down The Down is very concentrated so a little goes a long way. The Up uses around twice the amount to get the desired rise.

I try to add slowly and give it time to settle to its true pH before I add more. Early on I'd be see sawing when I was mixing and one of the master growers at one of the LGO's pointed out how my chasing pH was changing the nutrient ratios.

That would makes since with all the added potassium from the up. I almost never add down except for the initial buffer. But I do add Up when I see 5.6 or lower. Sometimes 5.7 if it's soon after a dose (hour or less) or if I'm headed to work or bed.

 

[ninjadip]

Try to use something to sort of measure how much you are adding to the solution to get the hang of it. I have been at this for a while so for me I just use the bottle caps. The hell with that Gh up and down. Next time buy Grow More PH up and Down. It is like 3 times as strong. I use 70 percent PH down solution now and just tamper down the stuff by adding water. A gallon goes along ways with that stuff.

Yeah I found diluting the ph down helps in my auto doser to avoid big swings.

Cheapest ph down route is phosphoric acid, can make 3-4 ph down bottles at the price of one ph down bottle

 

[GrumpAzz]

Yeah I found diluting the ph down helps in my auto doser to avoid big swings.

Cheapest ph down route is phosphoric acid, can make 3-4 ph down bottles at the price of one ph down bottle

This whole grow, my pH has crept down. I started with the 1 pint pair of up and down and just recently ran out of the down. I've bought and extra quart of Up, though. I've burned through it much quicker and just canceled an order for another bottle after Anthem suggested to grab the Grow More adjusters instead. I haven't ordered any yet so I'll look into phosphoric acid before I do.

 

[ninjadip]

This whole grow, my pH has crept down. I started with the 1 pint pair of up and down and just recently ran out of the down. I've bought and extra quart of Up, though. I've burned through it much quicker and just canceled an order for another bottle after Anthem suggested to grab the Grow More adjusters instead. I haven't ordered any yet so I'll look into phosphoric acid before I do.

I go through a lot of down and only ever have to use up when I over do it with down.
One of the only good things about the tap water I'm using is the built in buffer. I still want to get on some RO water setup in the next place I live at.

This is the acid I got, a little bit goes a long way. 85% phosphoric acid compared to "10-30%" in GH ph down, their msds is attached

Duda Energy 1 Quart / 950ml 85% Food Grade Phosphoric Acid Rust Remover Clean Etch Metal https://a.co/d/cbCSuua

 

[GrumpAzz]

I guess I never posted this in my thread...

We're on the home stretch, I believe, as a lot of the trichs are looking clouded and I see a tiny bit of amber coming on a couple of 'em

I'm just gonna dry in the tent and I can't wait for a little peace and quiet. Gonna have to get some grove bags coming.

 

[ninjadip]

I guess I never posted this in my thread...

We're on the home stretch, I believe, as a lot of the trichs are looking clouded and I see a tiny bit of amber coming on a couple of 'em
View attachment 20108

Yeah!!

 

[GrumpAzz]

Yeah!!

Yee yee!

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Man... using UP and DOWN as my buffer has just been a pain in the ass. Hopefully I'm not fighting it for the rest of the grow. Extreme ping-pong can't be good for a finishing plant.

Hey Grump- I know you have seen this chart.

Study this thing and begin to look at things a bit differently. You sound almost exactly like me when I was first starting out and I think I can help you figure this out.

First, stop looking at the pH as the root of the problem and chasing that around. Instead, start looking at EC/PPM FIRST. This is going to show you, according to this chart, where you are with your water. Is your EC static, falling, rising? That should be your first question. Make a note of where you are with that, then look at the chart and compare to what is happening with the plants on the pH side of things.

Rising EC always means that your nute mix is too hot. Falling EC, the opposite. THEN, look at the pH and determine what that is doing. The chart will tell you what to do. When it says change the res, I only do that if/when everything else is not working and I need a reset. If I just changed the res, I'm not going to change it again but rather, just dilute it down, or amend it up, whatever the case may be.

I know this works. @Anthem275 got me on this and hoping he can stop by and verify that I am understanding all this correctly. I have been steadily figuring this out and with every res change, I get a better handle on this. From what I can tell, the plant is affecting what is happening in the water. Heard Moe and A-man talk about this alot. We've heard about reading the plants, I think this is reading the water.

Case in point. I've been getting better at dialing in my reservoirs. Yesterday, I had to change out my 4 site system again and since this is the second time for this plant in flower, I have a pretty good handle on what these gals want, right around 500-550 ppm. Get much higher than that, and I mean 25-30 ppms and she starts to dive off on the ppm. I've found there is a definite sweet spot and once you find it, it just works whether you changed the res yesterday or 5 days ago.

Anyhow, I dialed in this res yesterday and it's been solid as a rock since with a very slight pH drift upward, nearly exactly what you want to see and all this less than 24 hours after the change. My buffer is 100% at this point and I did not have to chase pH for a week to get there by looking at the EC first.

Try this and see if you don't see results bro.

 

[ninjadip]

Hey Grump- I know you have seen this chart.

Study this thing and begin to look at things a bit differently. You sound almost exactly like me when I was first starting out and I think I can help you figure this out.

First, stop looking at the pH as the root of the problem and chasing that around. Instead, start looking at EC/PPM FIRST. This is going to show you, according to this chart, where you are with your water. Is your EC static, falling, rising? That should be your first question. Make a note of where you are with that, then look at the chart and compare to what is happening with the plants on the pH side of things.

Rising EC always means that your nute mix is too hot. Falling EC, the opposite. THEN, look at the pH and determine what that is doing. The chart will tell you what to do. When it says change the res, I only do that if/when everything else is not working and I need a reset. If I just changed the res, I'm not going to change it again but rather, just dilute it down, or amend it up, whatever the case may be.

I know this works. @Anthem275 got me on this and hoping he can stop by and verify that I am understanding all this correctly. I have been steadily figuring this out and with every res change, I get a better handle on this. From what I can tell, the plant is affecting what is happening in the water. Heard Moe and A-man talk about this alot. We've heard about reading the plants, I think this is reading the water.

Case in point. I've been getting better at dialing in my reservoirs. Yesterday, I had to change out my 4 site system again and since this is the second time for this plant in flower, I have a pretty good handle on what these gals want, right around 500-550 ppm. Get much higher than that, and I mean 25-30 ppms and she starts to dive off on the ppm. I've found there is a definite sweet spot and once you find it, it just works whether you changed the res yesterday or 5 days ago.

Anyhow, I dialed in this res yesterday and it's been solid as a rock since with a very slight pH drift upward, nearly exactly what you want to see and all this less than 24 hours after the change. My buffer is 100% at this point and I did not have to chase pH for a week to get there by looking at the EC first.

Try this and see if you don't see results bro.

This chart is what got me back on track too. But I think he is doing great already, I still don't get why his and some other people have to use so much ph up after res setup. It doesn't seem to add up when looking at the chart

You are right about a sweet spot, I'm finding mine is also around 1.0 EC, but that is me starting with 0.35 EC at the tap. Interesting that you say even 30ppms is significant enough to make plants react different, crazy to think about

 

[GrumpAzz]

Hey Grump- I know you have seen this chart.

Study this thing and begin to look at things a bit differently. You sound almost exactly like me when I was first starting out and I think I can help you figure this out.

First, stop looking at the pH as the root of the problem and chasing that around. Instead, start looking at EC/PPM FIRST. This is going to show you, according to this chart, where you are with your water. Is your EC static, falling, rising? That should be your first question. Make a note of where you are with that, then look at the chart and compare to what is happening with the plants on the pH side of things.

Rising EC always means that your nute mix is too hot. Falling EC, the opposite. THEN, look at the pH and determine what that is doing. The chart will tell you what to do. When it says change the res, I only do that if/when everything else is not working and I need a reset. If I just changed the res, I'm not going to change it again but rather, just dilute it down, or amend it up, whatever the case may be.

I know this works. @Anthem275 got me on this and hoping he can stop by and verify that I am understanding all this correctly. I have been steadily figuring this out and with every res change, I get a better handle on this. From what I can tell, the plant is affecting what is happening in the water. Heard Moe and A-man talk about this alot. We've heard about reading the plants, I think this is reading the water.

Case in point. I've been getting better at dialing in my reservoirs. Yesterday, I had to change out my 4 site system again and since this is the second time for this plant in flower, I have a pretty good handle on what these gals want, right around 500-550 ppm. Get much higher than that, and I mean 25-30 ppms and she starts to dive off on the ppm. I've found there is a definite sweet spot and once you find it, it just works whether you changed the res yesterday or 5 days ago.

Anyhow, I dialed in this res yesterday and it's been solid as a rock since with a very slight pH drift upward, nearly exactly what you want to see and all this less than 24 hours after the change. My buffer is 100% at this point and I did not have to chase pH for a week to get there by looking at the EC first.

Try this and see if you don't see results bro.

I need to be topping off with straight water to follow that chart, right?

I'm pretty sure I've been doing mine a little differently than most because I've been trying to conserve nutes and water, but I mix a 25 gallon batch even though my lower resevoirs only hold ~15 gallons. Lately I've only dropped 12.5 gallons to the lower resevoirs. Then I'll leave my nutes mixed into the top-off and dilute it down by filling it back up to 25 gallons with RO/DI water. This all allows me to only amend once a week or so when the ppms drop 75 or so. I know it doesn't take much time but my 1.5 year old takes up nearly all my time after work. Mom stays at home and when I arrive, I'm on duty.

Up until my current problems with my buffer, this held the pH rock solid and very slowly dropped the ppms. I was just not wanting to waste any water and nutes on this first run and it worked in the beginning so I've kept it up. My RO wastes 4 gallons to get 1 gallon.

Having kept notes of precise amounts of what's gone in and how those additions affect pH and ppms step by step, my next run should really be dialed in.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I need to be topping off with straight water to follow that chart, right?

Nope. Once I have the res dialed in and I know where I want my EC, I just look at the meter and try to mix my top off to match what is in there and working. I'll first adjust pH, then add nutes in the proper ratio to get the EC that is in the res at the time, then dump that in. Generally, I add about 100 ppm of cal/mag and the GH trio to finish it off. Later in flower, I stop adding the cal/mag as I think there is enough in the brown and green to get them to the finish line.

That is how I top off and it just works.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Nope. Once I have the res dialed in and I know where I want my EC, I just look at the meter and try to mix my top off to match what is in there and working. I'll first adjust pH, then add nutes in the proper ratio to get the EC that is in the res at the time, then dump that in. Generally, I add about 100 ppm of cal/mag and the GH trio to finish it off. Later in flower, I stop adding the cal/mag as I think there is enough in the brown and green to get them to the finish line.

That is how I top off and it just works.

Yeah that makes more since. I could pretty easily added the same ratios to the top-off res to make them balance out. That also makes the chart make better since, as well.

Maybe it's just Smoke that's topping off with straight water.

We'll get this figured out together and my next run will be the bee's knees. Aqua has been MIA for a few weeks. He usually set me straight pretty quick. I don't think he's even aware of my hermie. Moe laughed it off. I love this place

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Maybe it's just Smoke that's topping off with straight water.

You gotta remember, and I always used to forgot this too, Moe and Smoke do auto top offs. This small detail changes everything.

 

[GrumpAzz]

You gotta remember, and I always used to forgot this too, Moe and Smoke do auto top offs. This small detail changes everything.

Yeah I think that's why Aqua stepped in and helped with my watering regimen. Moe got me going and off on the right foot, for sure, but Aqua has been my go-to guy for nutes, so far. Next run, I'll add nutes after I fill up my top-off resevoir. I wanna get another bluelab guardian so I can have one in each res.

 

[ninjadip]

This is just me and I'm probably wrong, I am wary about adding top off nutes to a res more than once, can't the ratios get all messed up if the plant isn't pulling everything equally?

 

[GrumpAzz]

This is just me and I'm probably wrong, I am wary about adding top off nutes to a res more than once, can't the ratios get all messed up if the plant isn't pulling everything equally?

I think the goal is to get the ratios right so that plant uptakes it all evenly, but I see your point. I think that's where that chart comes in handy.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I am wary about adding top off nutes to a res more than once, can't the ratios get all messed up if the plant isn't pulling everything equally?

They probably are not taking in everything equally. But I have to top off daily and if I do not amend each time, things get more out of whack every day and its cumulative. If I can top off each day with what I know is working in the res, the ratios may be off a bit every time I top off, but refreshing that I think will bring them back in line with suggested ratios, albeit not 100% perfect. This may show itself over time and require another res change but again, let the water tell you what you need to do, if anything.

I might be wrong here too in my understanding. This is all new to me and I'm figuring it out on the fly. I just know that I am seeing a real change in my grows since trying to master this technique. Positive change in my grows as well as easing the burden of feeling like I'm chasing my tail every day.

 

[ninjadip]

Btw aqua wrote up a good article on exactly this, hydro res top off. It's in here somewhere

 

[GrumpAzz]

They probably are not taking in everything equally. But I have to top off daily and if I do not amend each time, things get more out of whack every day and its cumulative. If I can top off each day with what I know is working in the res, the ratios may be off a bit every time I top off, but refreshing that I think will bring them back in line with suggested ratios, albeit not 100% perfect. This may show itself over time and require another res change but again, let the water tell you what you need to do, if anything.

I might be wrong here too in my understanding. This is all new to me and I'm figuring it out on the fly. I just know that I am seeing a real change in my grows since trying to master this technique. Positive change in my grows as well as easing the burden of feeling like I'm chasing my tail every day.

Notice my title of "Wingin' It"

Use what works and chase your own tail before you chase someone else's tail. Small improvements each grow is my end goal. My buds are looking better than anything I'll be able to buy around here, so a little improvement each run will continue to leave the local bud in the dust.

I'm very satisfied and with this subtle improvement on my watering coupled with my plans on how to improve my scrog, my next run is gonna be great, although I'll be running a different strain. My second screen will be placed a lot sooner to combat the leaners I'm dealing with and a third screen will be ready to go.

Defoliation is something I'm looking ahead at also and I have a 10" pair of scissors and tweezers on the way. For now I'm focused on drying and curing this gal first.

Even from a newbies perspective, I've seen noticeably improvements on each of your grows so far, Sweet. Maybe some of this run was your new light, but I'm doubting it's ALL the light. You've been killing it with those Apples and Bananas runs.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Notice my title of "Wingin' It"

I was a Hydropidiot there for a while. I've since graduated to Student of Hydroponics.

 

[tobh]

forgive me if this has been mentioned, but do you have any kind of alkaline buffering in your mix? like potassium silicate? i've seen these kind of wild pH swings (and constant nose diving of pH) when the initial water doesn't have enough buffer. as much as i don't like recommending it because it's a PITA to work with, using something like protekt or southern ag's offering makes a lot of sense when starting with water that has no alkalinity to it.

basic res change out process is:

• fresh h2o
• add 2.5ml - 5ml/gal protekt
• let mix for a solid 15-30 minutes
• pH down to 6.5
• add nutes
• allow to mix for 10ish minutes
• final pH down to target

it makes the process way longer, but having that alkaline buffer (the silica will drive the pH up to 9+) then bringing it back down to 6.5 offers a hell of a lot more stability to how the pH behaves unless your EC is way out of whack or you have a bad bacterial issue due to anaerobic conditions. bacteria will drive the pH down due to make the solution more acidic when it blooms. that's also why i run sterile. trying to cultivate live cultures and keep them healthy is a nightmare without a chiller, and even with a chiller if you end up with pythium or worse, you're never getting it completely out of the system.

 

[ninjadip]

I was a Hydropidiot there for a while. I've since graduated to Student of Hydroponics.

I'm learning myself for real. Didn't expect such a different approach from DWC to RWDC, but I def found out the hard way. Going from 5 gal buckets with 3 gal of water to an RWDC with 50+ gallons has been a challenge I wasn't expecting. The best thing I've found so far is to leave them the fuck alone and go with about half the EC I had in DWC