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Oh, also on the topic of acids to use. switching to sulfuric acid after flowers have set and stretch is done can help bump up that micronutrient and make more terps. can pick up clean acid at any auto parts store. it's used for filling motorcycle batteries, so it's not like it's a suspicious product to be purchasing (no more so than the ether and drain cleaner you'll need for other projects :ROFLMAO: ).
 
tobh said:
forgive me if this has been mentioned, but do you have any kind of alkaline buffering in your mix? like potassium silicate? i've seen these kind of wild pH swings (and constant nose diving of pH) when the initial water doesn't have enough buffer. as much as i don't like recommending it because it's a PITA to work with, using something like protekt or southern ag's offering makes a lot of sense when starting with water that has no alkalinity to it.

basic res change out process is:

  • fresh h2o
  • add 2.5ml - 5ml/gal protekt
  • let mix for a solid 15-30 minutes
  • pH down to 6.5
  • add nutes
  • allow to mix for 10ish minutes
  • final pH down to target

it makes the process way longer, but having that alkaline buffer (the silica will drive the pH up to 9+) then bringing it back down to 6.5 offers a hell of a lot more stability to how the pH behaves unless your EC is way out of whack or you have a bad bacterial issue due to anaerobic conditions. bacteria will drive the pH down due to make the solution more acidic when it blooms. that's also why i run sterile. trying to cultivate live cultures and keep them healthy is a nightmare without a chiller, and even with a chiller if you end up with pythium or worse, you're never getting it completely out of the system.
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Hey tobh, yea Grump has been using Agsil 16 I think but what we have discovered is that in flower, it's adding too much Potassium and throwing off the ratios. For me personally, I'm using the Agsil during veg and very sparingly in flower if at all and having success that way. You are right though. The Agsil is much more stable in its buffering capacity and we have yet to figure out how to use it in flower without having excess Potassium.

I remember Moe talking about raising that pH way up using the Potassium Silicate, then back down converts something into, I think monosilic acid or something like that which is very helpful in buffering.
 
tobh said:
forgive me if this has been mentioned, but do you have any kind of alkaline buffering in your mix? like potassium silicate? i've seen these kind of wild pH swings (and constant nose diving of pH) when the initial water doesn't have enough buffer. as much as i don't like recommending it because it's a PITA to work with, using something like protekt or southern ag's offering makes a lot of sense when starting with water that has no alkalinity to it.

basic res change out process is:

  • fresh h2o
  • add 2.5ml - 5ml/gal protekt
  • let mix for a solid 15-30 minutes
  • pH down to 6.5
  • add nutes
  • allow to mix for 10ish minutes
  • final pH down to target

it makes the process way longer, but having that alkaline buffer (the silica will drive the pH up to 9+) then bringing it back down to 6.5 offers a hell of a lot more stability to how the pH behaves unless your EC is way out of whack or you have a bad bacterial issue due to anaerobic conditions. bacteria will drive the pH down due to make the solution more acidic when it blooms. that's also why i run sterile. trying to cultivate live cultures and keep them healthy is a nightmare without a chiller, and even with a chiller if you end up with pythium or worse, you're never getting it completely out of the system.
Click to expand...
I started these last few mixes with about 40ml of ph UP which did bring me above 9 and then around 15-20ml of DOWN brings me to right around 6.0. I was using Agsil16 for the first few mixes but quit using that about a week into flowering.
 
SweetLeafGrow said:
Hey tobh, yea Grump has been using Agsil 16 I think but what we have discovered is that in flower, it's adding too much Potassium and throwing off the ratios. For me personally, I'm using the Agsil during veg and very sparingly in flower if at all and having success that way. You are right though. The Agsil is much more stable in its buffering capacity and we have yet to figure out how to use it in flower without having excess Potassium.

I remember Moe talking about raising that pH way up using the Potassium Silicate, then back down converts something into, I think monosilic acid or something like that which is very helpful in buffering.
Click to expand...
i'm not sure if that conversion actually happens, but potassium silicate is fantastic for buffering capacity. MSA is different iirc but i'm not 100% privy to the chemistry that happens when you drop the pH back down after adding potassium silicate. what i do know, is you HAVE TO drop the pH otherwise other minerals from your nutrient additives will precipitate (crash out) of the solution and become useless powder in your res. same thing will happen if you mix up your nutrient solution then add potassium silicate.

if at all possible, it would be reasonable to manipulate what input has the potassium as to compensate for the increased potassium given by the agsil. I know that's not necessarily possible with all nutrient lines but IME you can mess with just about all two and three part lines to compensate for additional additives. you just have to know which parts are giving what % of each N-P-K and tweak the amount given for whichever is ending up in excess.

all that being said, it is also recommended to drop silica in flower, so figuring out a better alkaline buffer is well worth the effort.
 
tobh said:
Oh, also on the topic of acids to use. switching to sulfuric acid after flowers have set and stretch is done can help bump up that micronutrient and make more terps. can pick up clean acid at any auto parts store. it's used for filling motorcycle batteries, so it's not like it's a suspicious product to be purchasing (no more so than the ether and drain cleaner you'll need for other projects :ROFLMAO: ).
Click to expand...
I've lessened my CalMag and added epsom salts for that extra special sulfur kick 🤣
 
it'll be great for the mushrooms, if i ever get those going beyond agar. but at this point i'm having to empty my dehumidifier 2x a day. really need to figure out how to get it plumbed to autodrain and not look suspicious AF to the sheriff neighbor. given the history of my house, he knows a thing or two about grow equipment now lol
 
tobh said:
it'll be great for the mushrooms, if i ever get those going beyond agar. but at this point i'm having to empty my dehumidifier 2x a day. really need to figure out how to get it plumbed to autodrain and not look suspicious AF to the sheriff neighbor. given the history of my house, he knows a thing or two about grow equipment now lol
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Maybe leave him a small care package?🫣
 
Rootsruler said:
Maybe leave him a small care package?🫣
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maybe i'll buy him a box of donuts. he didn't seem to be a fan of cannabis when i asked him wtf happened at my house before i bought it. at least he answered the question i had about how the front door frame ended up split top to bottom and why the drywall was poorly patched next to it.
 
tobh said:
maybe i'll buy him a box of donuts. he didn't seem to be a fan of cannabis when i asked him wtf happened at my house before i bought it. at least he answered the question i had about how the front door frame ended up split top to bottom and why the drywall was poorly patched next to it.
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Great idea but make them medicated. We need to start upping this guys tolerance! 😄

I'm guessing your doorframe/drywall mismatch came at the hands of your local LEO'S?
110405-F-JA180-002-1600x900.jpg
 
Rootsruler said:
Great idea but make them medicated. We need to start upping this guys tolerance! 😄

I'm guessing your doorframe/drywall mismatch came at the hands of your local LEO'S?
View attachment 20156
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Yep. In conjunction with the staters. Raided three grow houses that morning, my place being one of them. This time last year the very room I'm sitting in was a sea of green, along with just about every other room in the house.
 
Rootsruler said:
Looks like they're gonna get a repeat!! 😄
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haha they shouldn't. unlike the previous owners i know what a carbon filter is and have absolutely no desire nor need to run at the scale they were. i got a copy of the police report. the power consumption alone was something like 17k KWh/month. the average for the neighborhood is like 1200 KWh/month. if it weren't for the fact they were dumping the exhaust out the chimney (and thus the entire neighborhood knew someone was growing), and that they blacked out all the windows, the power consumption would've tipped off LE. when it came to getting the warrant issued the smell and the power consumption were the major reasons listed for getting the warrant authorized.
 
tobh said:
haha they shouldn't. unlike the previous owners i know what a carbon filter is and have absolutely no desire nor need to run at the scale they were. i got a copy of the police report. the power consumption alone was something like 17k KWh/month. the average for the neighborhood is like 1200 KWh/month. if it weren't for the fact they were dumping the exhaust out the chimney (and thus the entire neighborhood knew someone was growing), and that they blacked out all the windows, the power consumption would've tipped off LE. when it came to getting the warrant issued the smell and the power consumption were the major reasons listed for getting the warrant authorized.
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In Socal the power thing does not get you tipped off. SCE could care less as long as you pay your bill.
 
tobh said:
haha they shouldn't. unlike the previous owners i know what a carbon filter is and have absolutely no desire nor need to run at the scale they were. i got a copy of the police report. the power consumption alone was something like 17k KWh/month. the average for the neighborhood is like 1200 KWh/month. if it weren't for the fact they were dumping the exhaust out the chimney (and thus the entire neighborhood knew someone was growing), and that they blacked out all the windows, the power consumption would've tipped off LE. when it came to getting the warrant issued the smell and the power consumption were the major reasons listed for getting the warrant authorized.
Click to expand...
sometimes it's so obvious when people are being "hot".... blacking out windows... like wtf were they thinking?

the power consumption is what has always pushed me away from growing when it was illegal back when HID was the main option. i had heard that warrants will come when power consumption doubles or triples from previous years and a "random" helicopter heat sensor pass of your house reveals crazy hot spots. the fact that they can seize all assets is a scary thought for sure. now LEDs have allowed us to grow almost as much as we want without crazy power ups, even outside our state plant limit. i did research that while 4 is the limit in my state, 10+ is the number that felony charges are issued.
 
Anthem275 said:
In Socal the power thing does not get you tipped off. SCE could care less as long as you pay your bill.
Click to expand...
I spoke to one of their techs when I had something going in Murrietta. He said their thinking was "Not our job. Plus why would you want to rat out your best customers?"

If PD specifically requests it then they'll divulge but as far as them reporting? Of course if you stop paying your bill..........
 
ninjadip said:
sometimes it's so obvious when people are being "hot".... blacking out windows... like wtf were they thinking?

the power consumption is what has always pushed me away from growing when it was illegal back when HID was the main option. i had heard that warrants will come when power consumption doubles or triples from previous years and a "random" helicopter heat sensor pass of your house reveals crazy hot spots. the fact that they can seize all assets is a scary thought for sure. now LEDs have allowed us to grow almost as much as we want without crazy power ups, even outside our state plant limit. i did research that while 4 is the limit in my state, 10+ is the number that felony charges are issued.
Click to expand...
what was real wild back before LEDs was that digital ballasts had a certain signature the power companies could identify. they'd first look for excessive usage, then when the spikes happened, then dig deeper to figure out if it was worth tipping off LE. of course if LE asks them they'll oblige but they were never really in it to fuck with the smaller players.

the people that were here were just being dumb. they were immigrants, and paid 20% over asking for the house basically site unseen. It's a fairly common thing that's been going on here in the PNW, so much so that LE has been telling potential property sellers or leasers to watch out for some hallmark signs like 20% over asking + all cash offers, paying for a year's lease up front to the tune of $100k+, etc. Hell, even when this place sold, my neighbor told the previous previous owner "wtf, you know that house is gonna become an illegal grow op right?" and the dude just said "i don't give a shit what they do, they just paid for me to get a way nice place without any haggling."

what really grinds my gears about the whole thing though is goes completely counter to getting recreational growing legalized in the state of WA. it's that exact shit that scares the state govt off of it because they imagine every home grower is gonna spin up a bunch of lights and grow a ton of weed and everyone is gonna become a cartel. if they just let us grow six or twelve or whatever the going average of plants is everywhere else, they probably would see less than a couple points percentage decrease in sales through their pay-to-play dispos.
 
ninjadip said:
sometimes it's so obvious when people are being "hot".... blacking out windows... like wtf were they thinking?
Click to expand...
It depends on how you black out the windows. If you know how to make a shadow box with some drapes inside no one is going to be able to find out what is going on in the room. Shitty drapes in a shadow box will screw with any curious eyes.
 
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Anthem275 said:
It depends on how you black out the windows. If you know how to make a shadow box with some drapes inside no one it going to be able to find out what is going on in the room. Shitty drapes in a shadow box will screw with any curious eyes.
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yup. these cats didn't even do that. they just built false walls so the windows were effectively showing the backside of the OSB they used for their walls. you know, super sneaky style :ninja:
 
Anthem275 said:
It depends on how you black out the windows. If you know how to make a shadow box with some drapes inside no one it going to be able to find out what is going on in the room. Shitty drapes in a shadow box will screw with any curious eyes.
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Not your first rodeo? 😆

I've done that many times so that any initial inspection doesn't raise any red flags.
 
Rootsruler said:
Not your first rodeo? 😆

I've done that many times so that any initial inspection doesn't raise any red flags.
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you guys are schooling me for sure. i'm over here thinking of boarded up windows or something, nothing as elaborate as shadow boxes, have to google that
 
ninjadip said:
you guys are schooling me for sure. i'm over here thinking of boarded up windows or something, nothing as elaborate as shadow boxes, have to google that
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You just mount some 1" x 4" OR 6" all the way around the window. Paint the window side white, put some drapes inside the box and some white black out fabric to the room side of the frame and you are in business. Just go outside at night with the lights on and make sure there are no light leaks from the room side into the light box.
 
Anthem275 said:
You just mount some 1" x 4" OR 6" all the way around the window. Paint the window side white, put some drapes inside the box and some white black out fabric to the room side of the frame and you are in business. Just go outside at night with the lights on and make sure there are no light leaks from the room side into the light box.
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Some of the grows I didn't have the budget so I'd loosely cover over the backs of the curtains and leave enough all around to be able to Gorilla tape to the wall. Wasn't as good as the box but whatever you could do to get through the harvest.
 
GrumpAzz said:
Maybe the lady can test one of these nugs for her birthday. That's in a week or so.View attachment 20197View attachment 20213View attachment 20214
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Kudos on killing it first run out bro, pretty impressive and in hydro to boot! Experience always seems to be the best teacher for me too, just wait until the reset and run #2. It's amazing how quickly you begin to see issues in these plant and be able to respond to them. Good job, ill be keeping my eye on your journal!
 
midwestcannaman said:
Kudos on killing it first run out bro, pretty impressive and in hydro to boot! Experience always seems to be the best teacher for me too, just wait until the reset and run #2. It's amazing how quickly you begin to see issues in these plant and be able to respond to them. Good job, ill be keeping my eye on your journal!
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Fuck Yeah.....
 
midwestcannaman said:
Kudos on killing it first run out bro, pretty impressive and in hydro to boot! Experience always seems to be the best teacher for me too, just wait until the reset and run #2. It's amazing how quickly you begin to see issues in these plant and be able to respond to them. Good job, ill be keeping my eye on your journal!
Click to expand...
I for sure ran into some sort of problem here in the last week or two but a nute change at least kept it from getting too bad. I think it all started when I stopped adding a silcate buffer and used phUP instead. Maybe an excess of Potassium from the amount of UP it took that subsequently messed up my ratios? Maybe not enough CalMag?

Either way, I really appreciate it, bro. Thanks a ton for the props. I got loads of help and advice from these guys here. Several of the OGs were paying pretty close attention to just about every step of the way and an answer to a question never seemed to take more than a day. Lot's of great growers here and I hope to join the ranks in due time.

It's been a freakin blast and, with their help, has seemed relatively easy. This place is awesome and I have all these folks to thank for it.

LONG LIVE BUDBUILDERS
 

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