First Time.

[Scotty 420]

I really think it comes down to what your goals are.

I'm doing a soil vs hydro side by side right now. Just started flower. There is really no comparison to the 2. Soil is a fraction of the plant hydro is. Every other setpoint is identical, and the clones were the same size going in off the same mom.

Hydro has a steeper learning curve. More setup time. Less flexibility once set up. Other than that, IMHO it is better in every other way including ease and maintenance. The only thing that remains is the smoke test once the grow is finished. Since you are local here, you are invited to participate in the blind taste test. If soil grows better weed, that is something I want to know and it will factor in to my "no comparison" statements. I reserve the right to completely change my mind if the weed in dirt is better!

I think that's a good way to describe it, "steep learning curve" I look at some of the conversations you guys have & my head starts spinning. I'm sure if I got into it I could get it figured out, but it feels like a daunting task to set it all up & figure it out. I may try it out at some point I have the know-how & access to all types of plumbing supplies from work, but I'm trying to crawl before I walk so to speak (lol if I ever walk, I may just keep crawling)

I've been pretty impressed the way @GrumpAzz just jumped into the deep end of the pool straight to hydro.

 

[GrumpAzz]

How do you do that? don't your plants go through water? I'm adding 3+ gal of food per day for my 5 plants in flower.....My 47 L reservoir will run dry in 3 days when full so I keep it half full and add daily.........

I'm running an RWDC. I'll mix 25 gallons of nutes and drop 15 or so into the lower rez. Then, I'll add RO to my top-off res and bring it back up to 20 gallons. I do it a little differently than most, but it keeps some nutes coming in with the water. As the plant drinks, I have a float valve that drips the top solution down so my water level stays the same. I'll watch the ppms and after a drop of 75-100, if the top-off rez isn't empty, I'll amend the lower res with the same ratio I started with. 20 gallons at 1¼ gallons a day gives me about two weeks before the top-off is empty.

Hope that answers your question.

I think that's a good way to describe it, "steep learning curve" I look at some of the conversations you guys have & my head starts spinning. I'm sure if I got into it I could get it figured out, but it feels like a daunting task to set it all up & figure it out. I may try it out at some point I have the know-how & access to all types of plumbing supplies from work, but I'm trying to crawl before I walk so to speak (lol if I ever walk, I may just keep crawling)

It was a steep learning curve but I began asking questions before I started the build. I like to have somewhat of an understanding before starting anything because I don't like feeling lost.

I've been pretty impressed the way @GrumpAzz just jumped into the deep end of the pool straight to hydro.

I appreciate it. I've lived my life with a weird since of confidence that's worked out so far. I always carry on as though I know what I'm doing or where I'm going. Hasn't failed me yet. I think it has to do with hands on experience being how I learn the best. If I don't know something, I'm under the impression that I'll figure it out .

 

[Cool_Beans]

I think that's a good way to describe it, "steep learning curve" I look at some of the conversations you guys have & my head starts spinning. I'm sure if I got into it I could get it figured out, but it feels like a daunting task to set it all up & figure it out. I may try it out at some point I have the know-how & access to all types of plumbing supplies from work, but I'm trying to crawl before I walk so to speak (lol if I ever walk, I may just keep crawling)

I've been pretty impressed the way @GrumpAzz just jumped into the deep end of the pool straight to hydro.

Imo if you only care to know the how, it's really not bad. If you want to understand the why, things can get complicated.

 

[Scotty 420]

Imo if you only care to know the how, it's really not bad. If you want to understand the why, things can get complicated.

LOL, I am one who doesn't like to overcomplicate things. I don't need to know why it works, just that it does actually work. At one point in my grow journal someone asked why I was doing something & my basic answer was "cause that's what CannGranny said to do"

 

[Rootsruler]

I think each has there own pluses and minuses.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I spoke too soon @Scotty 420. Hopefully @Moe.Red can get me calmed down.

Last night around midnight is when I finished my rez change. 6.2 pH. 530 this morning it was 6.0 and I thought "nailed it."

Well... just got home and glanced in at the meter and OH SHIT!! 5.0!! I shot it with 30ml of UP and brought it to 6.2. I'll be checking again here in 15 minutes or so when I get cleaned up from work.

Did I kill her?
Do I need to do another change?

Ppms only dropped 10 or 20. I expected a little bit of drop but 5.0? Fug me, eh?

 

[moe.red]

I spoke too soon @Scotty 420. Hopefully @Moe.Red can get me calmed down.

Last night around midnight is when I finished my rez change. 6.2 pH. 530 this morning it was 6.0 and I thought "nailed it."

Well... just got home and glanced in at the meter and OH SHIT!! 5.0!! I shot it with 30ml of UP and brought it to 6.2. I'll be checking again here in 15 minutes or so when I get cleaned up from work.

Did I kill her?
Do I need to do another change?

Ppms only dropped 10 or 20. I expected a little bit of drop but 5.0? Fug me, eh?

Holy shit call the bambalance!!

Can you point me to the appropriate post to read about what is in the res right now? Any silica products?

When you do a res change, is the water pre--mixed and you dump it in or are you putting RO in the res and mixing in there?

 

[Rootsruler]

Y'er fine....

One thing I don't have to worry about in soil.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Did I kill her?
Do I need to do another change?

Ppms only dropped 10 or 20. I expected a little bit of drop but 5.0? Fug me, eh?

You will be fine I believe. Not sure on all your specifics, had not kept up but it's not going to do long term damage if it was out of range for that short period. I have found it fairly normal to have the ph dive for the first few days after a res change.

How are the ppms now compared to what you had before the change out? I have found that if your ppms are too high, it will cause an imbalance between the ppms and the pH will dive downward in that case. What I have done in this instance is use some silica or ph up to get things in the right range, and then lower the ppms by about 50-75 and see how everything behaves. Since being introduced to this metric, I have been able to fairly effectively dial things in and have 3 stable grows going on now for the first time ever,

 

[GrumpAzz]

Holy shit call the bambalance!!

Can you point me to the appropriate post to read about what is in the res right now? Any silica products?

When you do a res change, is the water pre--mixed and you dump it in or are you putting RO in the res and mixing in there?

Here's what went in. I mix it in the top-off, dump the plant res, then add it all at once.

 

[GrumpAzz]

You will be fine I believe. Not sure on all your specifics, had not kept up but it's not going to do long term damage if it was out of range for that short period. I have found it fairly normal to have the ph dive for the first few days after a res change.

How are the ppms now compared to what you had before the change out? I have found that if your ppms are too high, it will cause an imbalance between the ppms and the pH will dive downward in that case. What I have done in this instance is use some silica or ph up to get things in the right range, and then lower the ppms by about 50-75 and see how everything behaves. Since being introduced to this metric, I have been able to fairly effectively dial things in and have 3 stable grows going on now for the first time ever,

600 before to 680 with the new batch. Last batch was 630 and we were at 590-600 when I did the change.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

My thoughts, and I could be wrong, but 680 seems fairly high to me. Was that 600 range working well before the change?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Yeah well enough. I had it at 700 for a week or so and noticed some tip burn so I changed the res to reset my ratios and drop the ppms. That's the mix I dumped last night. Only upped the ppms with this change. GH suggests 700-850 at this stage for light feeding. I went with a little under that.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I have found it fairly normal to have the ph dive for the first few days after a res change.

I agree. It's usually a day or two of bringing it up but I've never seen it get below 5.4 let alone drop a whole digit in 12 hours.

6 days sober, to boot. Hence the panic

 

[moe.red]

I agree. It's usually a day or two of bringing it up but I've never seen it get below 5.4 let alone drop a whole digit in 12 hours.

6 days sober, to boot. Hence the panic

Ok man we gotta catch up. What’s going on in your life with the sobriety? Congrats if you are trying to clean up for the power plant job. You have to give up completely?

I need to get to a pc to read the notes. I was just curious why you mixed the new tank at 6.3. Sorry I’ve seen too many grows is this RO?

I agree you are on the high side ppms. Is that 500 or 700 scale? I should remember this from before but I smoke weed. Not rubbing it in your face tho. Well I guess I kinda am.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Ok man we gotta catch up. What’s going on in your life with the sobriety? Congrats if you are trying to clean up for the power plant job. You have to give up completely?

Ok so I'm getting clean for the job, yes. It's an opportunity I don't want to pass up. Chance at some amazing benefits and pay, plus a pension. Much less manual labor, also.

I have some stuff called OralClear if I choose to go back to my stonerisms. It's got mixed reviews, however. I'm hoping to be clean by the time they test me but they also do random swabs. An old coworker of mine works there now and says he's been swabbed 5 times in the last 3 years. So giving up completely is unlikely. I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up my daily 2-3 joint habit plus dabs before and during work, though.

I need to get to a pc to read the notes. I was just curious why you mixed the new tank at 6.3. Sorry I’ve seen too many grows is this RO?

I left it at 6.3, expecting a slight drift down and yes, it's RO/DI.

I agree you are on the high side ppms. Is that 500 or 700 scale? I should remember this from before but I smoke weed. Not rubbing it in your face tho. Well I guess I kinda am.

Haha. That's on the 500 scale. I just went a little less than the GH chart suggested for light feeding.

----

So after an hour or so, it seems to have settled around 6.4 and I'm afraid to add any down, expecting it to drift down again on it's own. I'll keep watching and add some down if it doesn't change by the time I call it a night.

I've been fine with 6.0 knowing the plant will be taking in more P and K as I'm about halfway through flower. I'm open to suggestions, though. I'm still kind of wingin' it.

This plant ran into some mag deficiency early on. That's why I've added the epsom in addition to the calmag. I'll have to find where, but Aqua had me bump up the ppms earlier. That was when we went to 700 and got the tip burn. I brought her down some and she's seemed pretty happy since. I bumped her up again this time around as we moved from early to mid bloom ratios.

Man I appreciate your attention. I've since left panic mode. It just takes me a little longer to get thoughts under control being sober.

Night sweats are friggin' terrible

 

[moe.red]

Ok so I'm getting clean for the job, yes. It's an opportunity I don't want to pass up. Chance at some amazing benefits and pay, plus a pension. Much less manual labor, also.

I have some stuff called OralClear if I choose to go back to my stonerisms. It's got mixed reviews, however. I'm hoping to be clean by the time they test me but they also do random swabs. An old coworker of mine works there now and says he's been swabbed 5 times in the last 3 years. So giving up completely is unlikely. I'm afraid I won't be able to keep up my daily 2-3 joint habit plus dabs before and during work, though.

I left it at 6.3, expecting a slight drift down and yes, it's RO/DI.

Haha. That's on the 500 scale. I just went a little less than the GH chart suggested for light feeding.

----

So after an hour or so, it seems to have settled around 6.4 and I'm afraid to add any down, expecting it to drift down again on it's own. I'll keep watching and add some down if it doesn't change by the time I call it a night.

I've been fine with 6.0 knowing the plant will be taking in more P and K as I'm about halfway through flower. I'm open to suggestions, though. I'm still kind of wingin' it.

This plant ran into some mag deficiency early on. That's why I've added the epsom in addition to the calmag. I'll have to find where, but Aqua had me bump up the ppms earlier. That was when we went to 700 and got the tip burn. I brought her down some and she's seemed pretty happy since. I bumped her up again this time around as we moved from early to mid bloom ratios.

Man I appreciate your attention. I've since left panic mode. It just takes me a little longer to get thoughts under control being sober.

Night sweats are friggin' terrible

You are fine. Let me dig a little deeper back in the thread tomorrow am. I’d rather give you a real answer but I need to get up to speed.

Sux on the forced sobriety

 

[GrumpAzz]

Here you go @Moe.Red. I was running high ppms at the end of veg. Noticed some burn on my first buds and backed it off about 100ppms.

 

[smoke]

Y'er fine....

One thing I don't have to worry about in soil.

I dont worry about it in hydro either, i just deal with it

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I dont worry about it in hydro either, i just deal with it

That, and the massive yields compared to the soil, we'll deal with that too

 

[GrumpAzz]

That, and the massive yields compared to the soil, we'll deal with that too

Moe's side by side is all the evidence I need. Who cares if it's not quite as tasty if you can harvest 3x the amount.

 

[GrumpAzz]

View attachment Snapchat-907054662.mp4

 

[smoke]

View attachment 18474
Here you go @Moe.Red. I was running high ppms at the end of veg. Noticed some burn on my first buds and backed it off about 100ppms.

I remember reading that and didn't think it was nutrient burn at the time and thought it was more than likely caused by a nutrient imbalance.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I remember reading that and didn't think it was nutrient burn at the time and thought it was more than likely caused by a nutrient imbalance.

Well we're running it a little lower now, regardless. She's starting to really fatten up about halfway through flower now. This has been so much fun! Thanks for being here with me on this maiden voyage. Wouldn't be here without ya'll.

 

[smoke]

Deficiency or Nute burn

This is from my last grow Started to see what i thought was a calcium def around week 1 of flower. Heres a picture at day 14 of flower feeding at 340 ppm 700 scale or 250 tds on the 500 scale. Tips showing what i thought was cal def because they haven't bean above 380 ppm and 180 of that is...

budbuilders.org

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Moe's side by side is all the evidence I need. Who cares if it's not quite as tasty if you can harvest 3x the amount.

The best I ever did in soil was a tad over 4 zips on one plant. My first hydro grow that Moe and Aqua helped me save, I yielded 11. Hit over a pound on my second hydro grow. Not going back to soil with the exception of possibly doing some KNF some day that has peaked my interest if I can ever get to a place where I grow for the fun of it and not because it's necessary.

 

[Observer]

I remember reading that and didn't think it was nutrient burn at the time and thought it was more than likely caused by a nutrient imbalance.

and supposedly anything "foreign"/toxic/they cant assimilate


heard this too

 

[moe.red]

OK Grump, I think I am a little caught up.

One thing that concerns me is you are mixing up RO and nutes in your top off res and you finished at 6.3 PH. There has to be something there I am missing. If you add liquid GH nutes to RO water, you will be at 5.8 unless there is some contaminate. Not a lot of buffering there, but the nutes are pre-set to 5.8 and RO water should have no impact on final PH.

If you can go thru your process of building that water change res, I might be able to help you find the problem.

I would personally back the EC down even more over the next couple of weeks. When you start to finish her off, you will likely have very purple leaves - and not necessarily in a good way. It is a build up of over-feeding. I'll stick with you the next few weeks here and help you get to the finish line.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I've been mixing the same way from the beginning besides these last two changes where I subbed out the Agsil for PH UP.

I start by zipping the float valve in the lower resevoir, then I'll empty what's left in the top-off. These last two changes, I added the UP. Hold up... I added the up and never the down to bring it to 5.8 before nutes... I realized this as I'm typing. Is that an issue? The last res lasted a couple weeks no problems.

Either way, after the UP, then I add the nutes in the order shown on my notes.

Overnight, it went from 6.3 to 5.7. I plan on dosing her with a little more UP before I leave for my tests, expecting a continued drift down.

She'll have at least one more change before finishing, unless you think I should swap these nutes out and start fresh.

@Moe.Red

 

[moe.red]

I've been mixing the same way from the beginning besides these last two changes where I subbed out the Agsil for PH UP.

I start by zipping the float valve in the lower resevoir, then I'll empty what's left in the top-off. These last two changes, I added the UP. Hold up... I added the up and never the down to bring it to 5.8 before nutes... I realized this as I'm typing. Is that an issue? The last res lasted a couple weeks no problems.

Either way, after the UP, then I add the nutes in the order shown on my notes.

Overnight, it went from 6.3 to 5.7. I plan on dosing her with a little more UP before I leave for my tests, expecting a continued drift down.

She'll have at least one more change before finishing, unless you think I should swap these nutes out and start fresh.

@Moe.Red

Ahh, yes I see it now.

When you say you are adding PH up that is actually Agsil. That explains the 6.3.

Yes, you definitely need to get PH back down to 5.8 BEFORE adding any nutes. If you put micro in at ph of 6.5+ the iron and copper will precipitate out and will become plant unavailable.

Here is what I would recommend

RO
Agsil
stir
PH down
Stir
Set to 5.8
Micro
Cal Mag
grow
bloom

I would be cautious of both epsom and cal mag at the same time. They are antagonistic, and the ratio that comes in the cal-mag bottle is the right one for cannabis. Personally I would ditch the epsom and only treat if there is some problem with the plant, and that can be done by foliar feed if necessary.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Ahh, yes I see it now.

When you say you are adding PH up that is actually Agsil. That explains the 6.3.

Yes, you definitely need to get PH back down to 5.8 BEFORE adding any nutes. If you put micro in at ph of 6.5+ the iron and copper will precipitate out and will become plant unavailable.

Here is what I would recommend

RO
Agsil
stir
PH down
Stir
Set to 5.8
Micro
Cal Mag
grow
bloom

I would be cautious of both epsom and cal mag at the same time. They are antagonistic, and the ratio that comes in the cal-mag bottle is the right one for cannabis. Personally I would ditch the epsom and only treat if there is some problem with the plant, and that can be done by foliar feed if necessary.

You think I should mix a fresh batch tonight?

 

[moe.red]

You think I should mix a fresh batch tonight?

If you don't mind a little wasted nutes and time, I would.

PH is a funny thing. You want the water to be right and buffered (agsil and PH down) before the nutes go in. They will then add to the buffer, rather than exhaust their buffering capacity trying to fight the high PH down into the right range.

But if you get it right, stress will go waaaaay down. I don't worry about leaving my RDWC untouched for a week. No late night PH adjustments for me bro. That shit is for the birds.

 

[GrumpAzz]

If you don't mind a little wasted nutes and time, I would.

Don't mind at all if it means getting it right.

PH is a funny thing. You want the water to be right and buffered (agsil and PH down) before the nutes go in. They will then add to the buffer, rather than exhaust their buffering capacity trying to fight the high PH down into the right range.

But if you get it right, stress will go waaaaay down. I don't worry about leaving my RDWC untouched for a week. No late night PH adjustments for me bro. That shit is for the birds.

I've been lucky enough so far to only have to adjust pH for a couple days after the change. This res was just like the previous aside from an upped dosage and that res lasted clear through 20 gallons from the top-off res. I'm not sure how we ended up at 5.0 yesterday.

I'll do the change tonight with a lower ppm. I just gotta remember to bring it to 5.8 before nutes. I did with the first couple changes but somehow it slipped my mind with the last two.

Should I aim for around 500? Right now, after a shot of UP, we're sitting at 650 6.0 at 71 degrees.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Also @Moe.Red, it's lights off for now until 6pm, so at least she'll be resting while we wait on the change.

 

[smoke]

Ahh, yes I see it now.

When you say you are adding PH up that is actually Agsil. That explains the 6.3.

Yes, you definitely need to get PH back down to 5.8 BEFORE adding any nutes. If you put micro in at ph of 6.5+ the iron and copper will precipitate out and will become plant unavailable.

Here is what I would recommend

RO
Agsil
stir
PH down
Stir
Set to 5.8
Micro
Cal Mag
grow
bloom

I would be cautious of both epsom and cal mag at the same time. They are antagonistic, and the ratio that comes in the cal-mag bottle is the right one for cannabis. Personally I would ditch the epsom and only treat if there is some problem with the plant, and that can be done by foliar feed if necessary.

I wouldn't foliar feed anything past week 2 of flower

 

[GrumpAzz]

I wouldn't foliar feed anything past week 2 of flower

I was kinda wondering if you'd need to spray while avoiding the buds, which seems impossible.

 

[moe.red]

Yes, 500 is a good target.

And yes, no foliar feed in flower is a good rule of thumb. But people do it. Especially on something like magnesium (also contains sulfur and oxygen) which is mobile, you can spray the lower foliage away from the buds and still get the epsom benefit.

But I don't do that generally, I feed it thru the roots. Foliar feeding to me is something you do to correct an imbalance fast. If you are feeding correctly, it is completely unnecessary.

It can also be used diagnostically. Think you have a mag imbalance? Foliar feed just a couple branches and watch what happens. That's kinda pro level stuff tho. You can also cause more issues doing this.

 

[Rootsruler]

The best I ever did in soil was a tad over 4 zips on one plant. My first hydro grow that Moe and Aqua helped me save, I yielded 11. Hit over a pound on my second hydro grow. Not going back to soil with the exception of possibly doing some KNF some day that has peaked my interest if I can ever get to a place where I grow for the fun of it and not because it's necessary.

I don't get it. I just dry yielded 17 oz. off of one plant in soil. The other 2 yielded 9 oz and 8 oz respectively. I did it in a 5 x 5. Not sure how big a tent you have but you know what you're doing. Why such low yield? Genetics? Small grow space?

 

[Rootsruler]

Yes, 500 is a good target.

And yes, no foliar feed in flower is a good rule of thumb. But people do it. Especially on something like magnesium (also contains sulfur and oxygen) which is mobile, you can spray the lower foliage away from the buds and still get the epsom benefit.

But I don't do that generally, I feed it thru the roots. Foliar feeding to me is something you do to correct an imbalance fast. If you are feeding correctly, it is completely unnecessary.

It can also be used diagnostically. Think you have a mag imbalance? Foliar feed just a couple branches and watch what happens. That's kinda pro level stuff tho. You can also cause more issues doing this.

Good idea! Didn't think about that!

 

[Observer]

If you don't mind a little wasted nutes and time, I would.

PH is a funny thing. You want the water to be right and buffered (agsil and PH down) before the nutes go in. They will then add to the buffer, rather than exhaust their buffering capacity trying to fight the high PH down into the right range.

But if you get it right, stress will go waaaaay down. I don't worry about leaving my RDWC untouched for a week. No late night PH adjustments for me bro. That shit is for the birds.

does this apply to all of it?

making/mixing a gallon of solution / making/mixing res solution

pseudo-hydro